Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #3

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ok, call me crazy, but I am going to put this young man as a possible victim in CA, where there has not been any, you will see why-
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/williams-body-death-2005804-police-diego

Dane Chandler Williams
Date Missing: 1/26/08
Date Found 1/29/08

COD: Undetermined
Tox: booze, valium (parents said no prescription) And - quinine? None of which killed him. Had small cuts all over his body
It's mho, that this could be an evolution of our vic profile. He was in water, but found in the alley, dumped there. Let me know your thoughts.

Well quinine was a weird one for me. The only thing I've heard about quinine was mention in historic fiction and non fiction publications. So of course I had to Wiki it and look what I found:

Quinine is often added to street drugs cocaine or ketamine in order to "cut" the product and make more profit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinine
 
ok, call me crazy, but I am going to put this young man as a possible victim in CA, where there has not been any, you will see why-
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/williams-body-death-2005804-police-diego

Dane Chandler Williams
Date Missing: 1/26/08
Date Found 1/29/08

COD: Undetermined
Tox: booze, valium (parents said no prescription) And - quinine? None of which killed him. Had small cuts all over his body
It's mho, that this could be an evolution of our vic profile. He was in water, but found in the alley, dumped there. Let me know your thoughts.


Also it seems his body was postioned to an extent. I think he should be added to the possible vics list.
 
Well quinine was a weird one for me. The only thing I've heard about quinine was mention in historic fiction and non fiction publications. So of course I had to Wiki it and look what I found:

Quinine is often added to street drugs cocaine or ketamine in order to "cut" the product and make more profit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinine

Ketamine:
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]What are some consequences of Ketamine use?[/SIZE][/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Higher doses produce an effect referred to as "K-Hole," an "out of body," or "near-death" experience.6[/SIZE][/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Use of the drug can cause delirium, amnesia, depression, and long-term memory and cognitive difficulties. Due to its dissociative effect, it is reportedly used as a date-rape drug.7[/SIZE][/FONT]
BAM, so Im guessing that is not a routinely given tox test?
 
Also it seems his body was postioned to an extent. I think he should be added to the possible vics list.

yes, and he was out of town, convention..
No known West Coast vics, different final place (not water), but he was wet, having not been found in water, they might not look for a "dry drowning."
New coast, new MO, new "blonde" vic, turf war?
 
Quinine is present in tonic water used in mixed drinks. I don't know how much you would have to drink for it to show up as significant. It can also be used to "cut" drugs according to Wiki.

After looking it up, I found it can be used to treat nocturnal leg cramps and has other uses besides treating Malaria.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinine

We can always add people and systematically rule them out as we learn more about their cases.

ETA: Suzi beat me to it! LOL
 
Ketamine:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]What are some consequences of Ketamine use?[/SIZE][/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Higher doses produce an effect referred to as "K-Hole," an "out of body," or "near-death" experience.6[/SIZE][/FONT]
  • [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Use of the drug can cause delirium, amnesia, depression, and long-term memory and cognitive difficulties. Due to its dissociative effect, it is reportedly used as a date-rape drug.7[/SIZE][/FONT]
BAM, so Im guessing that is not a routinely given tox test?

The video mentions he was drinking tonic water. At Wiki it says quinine is also in tonic water. Maybe because it showed up the ME wrongly assumes it's tonic water instead of Special K.
 
yes, and he was out of town, convention..
No known West Coast vics, different final place (not water), but he was wet, having not been found in water, they might not look for a "dry drowning."
New coast, new MO, new "blonde" vic, turf war?

There is one vic from Washington, but nothing yet so far in the Southwest. Doesn't mean there isn't any though.
 
lol SS, great minds think alike you know.
 
Welcome to WS, Kemo and Shorty! (Sorry, if I have missed someone!) I am still catching up on my reading here. Great input everyone!
 
For those wondering about being so intoxicated that you'd fall into water -- and doubting it -- be aware that when someone is intoxicated, they lose many abilities, including that of self-preservation, and they do things no sensible person would do and that they would not ordinarily do.

Just to note, when reading about the Maura Murray case today, a side story spoke of a young man who was either "hit by a car" or "fell out of a car" the same night Maura got upset after the phone call near the end of her workshift at the dorm (someone was trying to say maybe she hit him and that's why she was crying, what a longshot). Here's the amazing part: HE COULDN'T TELL what had happened! That's how drunk he was, how altered his perceptions! No idea, just a fuzzy notion that it involved a vehicle...

Some people unfortunately are able to locomote to other locations when their blood alcohol level indicates they should be falling down drunk. And others get totally fuzzy-minded when their blood alcohol level indicates they should just be buzzed. Alcohol can do terrible things.
 
lol SS, great minds think alike you know.

Yes, you two are like lightening-

Staying on the Dane Williams thing for a moment- very similar to Jesse Ross case. he has never been found, but he was also at a convention, and also an intern?
 
For those wondering about being so intoxicated that you'd fall into water -- and doubting it -- be aware that when someone is intoxicated, they lose many abilities, including that of self-preservation, and they do things no sensible person would do and that they would not ordinarily do.

Just to note, when reading about the Maura Murray case today, a side story spoke of a young man who was either "hit by a car" or "fell out of a car" the same night Maura got upset after the phone call near the end of her workshift at the dorm (someone was trying to say maybe she hit him and that's why she was crying, what a longshot). Here's the amazing part: HE COULDN'T TELL what had happened! That's how drunk he was, how altered his perceptions! No idea, just a fuzzy notion that it involved a vehicle...

Some people unfortunately are able to locomote to other locations when their blood alcohol level indicates they should be falling down drunk. And others get totally fuzzy-minded when their blood alcohol level indicates they should just be buzzed. Alcohol can do terrible things.


I'm not saying it can't happen. I know alcohol changes your preceptions. If it happened once or twice I would only blame it on the alcohol. There are just too many young males that are ending up drowning after leaving bars. Some of these young men are having to go a long ways before "falling" in the water. If they are so drunk they can't save themselves from drowning, I wonder how they ever made it to the water in the first place.
 
Jeff Geesey had cuts all over him as well. Curiously enough, when Kristi first broke the story she said his was the strangest case and that they would be covering it more. However, we haven't heard anything more about him. Also, Geesey's BAC was so high (.42), that many wonder how he could have even walked down to the river to begin with. A snip and link regarding Jeff Geesey.

http://www.stuffmagazine.com/articles/index.aspx?id=817

A bloodhound is used to search for Geesey. After four weeks, the dog hits on a scent that indicates Geesey experienced trauma in several locations. Someone apparently drove him more than a mile from the bar-heavy Third Street area to Niedbalski Bridge. Penny Bell, the bloodhound’s handler, says the dog found Geesey’s blood. “She was licking the pavement. But there was no forensics follow-up.”

La Crosse police chief Ed Kondracki remains skeptical. “Things she said those dogs could do, dogs can’t do,” he says.

On May 22, 1999, 41 days after Geesey vanished, two fishermen found his body. The medical examiner classified the manner of death as undetermined, but unofficially, some police officers consider it a suicide, based on four shallow self-inflicted scars on Geesey’s arms. But Geesey’s angry father says that an overnight hospital visit and a psychological evaluation determined that when Jeff cut himself, he was upset—but not suicidal.
 
Interesting that they already have basically closed the case with some of the info still not in..tox screens. Pretty much what happened in all these cases.

What is the talk around campus? Are people scared, confused, or just taking what they hear from LE as the Truth?


I checked with some friends in Ithaca. FWIW, they are not concerned. This case is getting more press than others in the past, but it isn't an uncommon occurrence in Ithaca for a student to drown or otherwise end up dead after a party.

And I repeat: the case is NOT CLOSED. There just isn't much else to be done while awaiting the tox tests.
 
LOL, MCDRAW, we just posted the same thought about how some of these guys were able to navigate to the river if they were so drunk.
 
I'm not saying it can't happen. I know alcohol changes your preceptions. If it happened once or twice I would only blame it on the alcohol. There are just too many young males that are ending up drowning after leaving bars. Some of these young men are having to go a long ways before "falling" in the water. If they are so drunk they can't save themselves from drowning, I wonder how they ever made it to the water in the first place.

Very true. The numbers are too high, the locations too clustered, the vics too similar. Also, girls drink like sailors, too, why no girls? Doesn't add up.

Eve
 
Jeff Geesey had cuts all over him as well. Curiously enough, when Kristi first broke the story she said his was the strangest case and that they would be covering it more. However, we haven't heard anything more about him. Also, Geesey's BAC was so high (.42), that many wonder how he could have even walked down to the river to begin with. A snip and link regarding Jeff Geesey.

http://www.stuffmagazine.com/articles/index.aspx?id=817

A bloodhound is used to search for Geesey. After four weeks, the dog hits on a scent that indicates Geesey experienced trauma in several locations. Someone apparently drove him more than a mile from the bar-heavy Third Street area to Niedbalski Bridge. Penny Bell, the bloodhound’s handler, says the dog found Geesey’s blood. “She was licking the pavement. But there was no forensics follow-up.”

La Crosse police chief Ed Kondracki remains skeptical. “Things she said those dogs could do, dogs can’t do,” he says.

On May 22, 1999, 41 days after Geesey vanished, two fishermen found his body. The medical examiner classified the manner of death as undetermined, but unofficially, some police officers consider it a suicide, based on four shallow self-inflicted scars on Geesey’s arms. But Geesey’s angry father says that an overnight hospital visit and a psychological evaluation determined that when Jeff cut himself, he was upset—but not suicidal.
I think if I'm reading that correctly, his father is admitting he cut himself prior to him going missing- is it stated somewhere else he had other cuts on his bod?
 
I think if I'm reading that correctly, his father is admitting he cut himself prior to him going missing- is it stated somewhere else he had other cuts on his bod?

No, just the fresh ones.

ETA: I mean I've seen no mention of previous cutting scars. Though I'm sure they are in the autopsy.
 
For those wondering about being so intoxicated that you'd fall into water -- and doubting it -- be aware that when someone is intoxicated, they lose many abilities, including that of self-preservation, and they do things no sensible person would do and that they would not ordinarily do.

While everything you say is true, how do you explain that our local bar area is only a few blocks from the Arkansas river and we aren't plucking dead boys out of there every weekend? The bars are on a strip mixed with some college age and others for the older crowd so I have been in the middle of that crowd. I know how drunk the 21 somethings do get...yet they don't walk to the river and jump in. Why? Are you insinuating that somehow the boys in other parts of the country are immune to doing this? Are they more intelligent in their drunken states? I don't think there is ANY difference in the boys, locations, or how drunk they get. The difference is that no one is here tossing them into the river, imo.

Just to note, when reading about the Maura Murray case today, a side story spoke of a young man who was either "hit by a car" or "fell out of a car" the same night Maura got upset after the phone call near the end of her workshift at the dorm (someone was trying to say maybe she hit him and that's why she was crying, what a longshot). Here's the amazing part: HE COULDN'T TELL what had happened! That's how drunk he was, how altered his perceptions! No idea, just a fuzzy notion that it involved a vehicle...

When people drunk or not experience a traumatic event such as being hit with a car or a bad fall, it is not uncommon to have no recollection of the event. Even people who have simple falls have been known to experience "event amnesia". I don't think that would apply here anyway as we know these young men didn't have any physical injuries indicating that kind of trauma, so I don't know why it is being mentioned (?). Alcohol blackouts do happen with frequency, but drownings associated with them don't.

Some people unfortunately are able to locomote to other locations when their blood alcohol level indicates they should be falling down drunk. And others get totally fuzzy-minded when their blood alcohol level indicates they should just be buzzed. Alcohol can do terrible things.

Yes, alcohol can do terrible things. Yes, you do find some people who can still function and not remember. However, I don't think you can say that most of the young men with significantly high levels in the BAC have that kind of tolerance or reaction to alcohol.

Sorry, I just can't buy the theory that so many people get drunk and during a blackout go jump in a river! Doesn't happen here...EVER! If it were happening with regularity in other places, we could understand...but it is not.
 
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