Details Emerge: Casey/Cindy Fight - Part 3

[BondJamesBond]

Couple of adjacent topic items:

• Thread discussing the discrepancy of George's use of 6/9 vs. 6/16 [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77267"]here[/ame] in the timeline forum. Just 6 pages & a good read, IMHO.
• Bumped the current "Theories" thread [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103475"]here[/ame] to help keep on-topic re: "Fight"

​

HTH.

 

[Dignity4Victims]

BBM
Something I noticed (finally) in this interview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chHc3vyiIms&NR=1
1:08 mark
Orlando Salinas asks George who has just spent close to an hour with ICA and has just left her, what color her shackles were, were they pink?
George hems and haws, and then says, "I can't remember."

Orlando, you genius!

Two things of particular interest to me in this video -

a) "We just got her another Bible even though we had sent one earlier for her."

Really, George, reaaally? Do you expect the public to believe that your [unusual] daughter who referred to your baby granddaughter as "the snothead", was also a Bible reader?

b) "Casey realizes that she's going to have to watch what she says to people in there, oh yeah, she's aware of that!"

And then Casey goes on to write multiple novellas to her jail mate about what a[n unusual person] her mother is, how much Casey enjoys the fact that she has inflicted so much pain, and [alleges sexual abuse] from her brother, Lee, her father, George, and the fact that Cindy allowed it to go on.

 

[Marshmallow]

It probably didn't hit SP's bank statement until June...I want to hear this from CA's mouth, not that we'd get the truth but I'm selfish like that, I want CA to admit this happened but I won't hold my breath...

Seems LA told JG who in turn told LE. I see this as being the straw that broke the camels back...only, she took it out on Caylee and not her mother, CA. ICA is a coward, she's not a woman much less a mother. I do believe ICA did care for Caylee (not love, she doesn't understand the meaning), until precious Caylee started to walk and talk and take all the attention away from ICA. I also feel Caylee did gravitate towards her grandmother, there's nothing like a grandmoters love, and this infuriated ICA.

Horrible this child was used like a pawn in a chess game. Poor Caylee must have been so confused...I can only imagine the volatile happenings in that home that Caylee witnessed. Seems to have been discord there for a long while. If it wasn't from GA, it was from ICA..

ICA followed in her fathers footsteps with all the conning, the manipulations, (the laziness, no job, no money) to the people she called friends..I remember reading how shocked TonyL was. How he thought he and ICA were so much alike with interest in the same things. How she could juggle being a full time student, have a job and being a mother to Caylee... ICA has fooled alot of people...I believe it stops there for she will not fool the jury....I hope they have lots of common sense and apply it here. JMHO

Justice for Caylee

my mind keeps going back to Lee asking her if it was like what happened before (not sure of exact quote). I've always wondered what that "before" incident was.

I think Casey took up both her parents worst traits and then had a few of her own. She seems to have reacted to anything she disliked with your classic temper fit which for some reason her family seemed to appease quickly. She stole, she lied, she lashed out yet no one stood up to her. In a way not standing up to her was a control thing of Cindy's and not letting George be a Father was a way of teaching Casey (and Lee) to disrespect him. It's as if all the disfunction funneled into Casey and she learned quickly to use it to her advantage. Caylee was a pawn, Cindy used her as a weapon but did seem to adore her, Casey seemed to tolerate her but used Caylee as her weapon to hurt Cindy, only George seemed to truely love Caylee but I think it was because she was the only female in that house who actually liked him.
So many games were being played by that family. A serious one upmanship between Mother and Daughter, a marital standoff between George and Cindy, a lack of respect for one another by every adult in that home, and in the middle...Caylee. Poor little thing never stood a chance.

 

[Brattigirle]

BBM
Something I noticed (finally) in this interview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chHc3vyiIms&NR=1
1:08 mark
Orlando Salinas asks George who has just spent close to an hour with ICA and has just left her, what color her shackles were, were they pink?
George hems and haws, and then says, "I can't remember."

Orlando, you genius!

OMG good point, I never believed GA about the 16th, because his memory was so detailed as to what the girls had on.

 

[LCoastMom]

Another thing that is odd to me about the cover up / denial - what family never fights? What family never has disagreements? (aside from the A's?) GA being a former cop had to know most aspects of their private lives - prior to Caylee going missing was going to become public knowledge - maybe not day 32 or day 33, but by August, when Caylee's Birthday came and went with no Caylee - they had to take a hard look at the facts:

(1) they had not talked to or seen Caylee even 1 time in the 31 days ICA was gone nor had ANYONE! (once home, she would not / could not produce her)

(2) ICA had not taken any of Caylee's belongings - prior to June 16 she had to have a diaper bag, etc on the occasions when they were away from the house

(3) they had no contact numbers, nor did they (or anyone) find any - for Zanny - yet they had contact with many of ICA's "friends", many for the first time - and most of the friend groups had overlapped at some point that summer

(4) the condition of the car and knowledge of it being left in the parking lot close to home - in JUNE!

So armed with the above and the knowledge of ICA's many misdeeds - why not just say "Yep, I found out X,Y,Z on the 15th, I was not happy and when ICA came home and denied "borrowing" from GPa's acct (or x,y,z) - I was down right pizzed off, as any normal parent would be. We had words and don't be ridiculous - I never put my hands to her throat - we're civilized people - we don't get physical when we discuss things in this house. <<rolling my eyes here>>

Wouldn't this admission have been so much easier than the lies, on top of lies - which led to more lies on top of lies? They brought this avalanche down on themselves.

 

[LCoastMom]

OMG good point, I never believed GA about the 16th, because his memory was so detailed as to what the girls had on.

In which version? The one where ICA carried Caylee to the car? The one where Caylee ran up and gave Jo-Jo a kiss? Or the one where Jo-Jo carried Caylee to the car and put her in the car seat?!

 

[LambChop]

Only way GA would have remembered what they were wearing is if something significant happened such as KC saying "Take a good look at her now Dad because you won't be seeing us for awhile. I'm leaving for good." That would have made an impression. But just an ordinary day, no. Surprised the reported did not ask GA what they wore the day before. jmo

 

[Brattigirle]

In which version? The one where ICA carried Caylee to the car? The one where Caylee ran up and gave Jo-Jo a kiss? Or the one where Jo-Jo carried Caylee to the car and put her in the car seat?!

Hmmm, the one where Jo Jo sat on his butt on the couch and watched food network. I don't know that I have heard the other versions. Right, it would be the kiss one.

 

[LambChop]

Hmmm, the one where Jo Jo sat on his butt on the couch and watched food network. I don't know that I have heard the other versions. Right, it would be the kiss one.

And I think that was the June 9th version.

 

[EgyptNug]

And it seems she didnt mention anything to T Lazzaro during their lengthy phone conversations into the wee small hours. Doesn't sound like drama queen Casey ....at least to me.
:truce:

I don't know if there's an unreleased interview with TL, or if it was "off the record" stuff, but I don't recall ever hearing details of what TL and KC spoke of the 15/16th of June, and also the call specifics on the 16th or 17th of July, when she texted him that she's been interviewed by the police and he says something to the effect of "why are we texting, call me" or something.

I've also never seen reference to when LE asked TL to wear a wire with Lee, so obviously some things are not part of the official interviews..

Two things of particular interest to me in this video -

a) "We just got her another Bible even though we had sent one earlier for her."

Really, George, reaaally? Do you expect the public to believe that your [unusual] daughter who referred to your baby granddaughter as "the snothead", was also a Bible reader?

b) "Casey realizes that she's going to have to watch what she says to people in there, oh yeah, she's aware of that!"

And then Casey goes on to write multiple novellas to her jail mate about what a[n unusual person] her mother is, how much Casey enjoys the fact that she has inflicted so much pain, and [alleges sexual abuse] from her brother, Lee, her father, George, and the fact that Cindy allowed it to go on.

Yeah, all red herrings to throw off the scent of who she really is.

my mind keeps going back to Lee asking her if it was like what happened before (not sure of exact quote). I've always wondered what that "before" incident was.

Me, too. I don't know that we'll ever find out unless maybe Mallory and Lee split up.

Only way GA would have remembered what they were wearing is if something significant happened such as KC saying "Take a good look at her now Dad because you won't be seeing us for awhile. I'm leaving for good." That would have made an impression. But just an ordinary day, no. Surprised the reported did not ask GA what they wore the day before. jmo

It *is* a ridiculous thing for him to remember, and so out of the ordinary that it instantly doesn't pass the sniff test.

 

[LambChop]

I do think that CA will never admit to the fight because it provides SA with a motive. They had a huge fight, KC became enraged and may have taken it out on Caylee. We certainly know something happened that night or next day to cause Caylee's death. The jailhouse tape has provided up with a sample of KC's ability to show rage. jmo

 

[akashana]

Ty button note enough. The sixteenth is where the perfect storm to prompt the killing of little Caylee. I do not think ICA set out to kill Caylee. Unfortunately, I don't think Caylee registered on ICA's radar enough to waste the time murdering. Besides, IMO To her line of thinking, Caylee was going to come in very handy as a pawn to get what she would need down the road.

I think she expected to knock little Caylee out for her own convenience, leave her in the trunk with duct tape on her mouth (this one thing leads me to believe she had done this in the past only Calyee had come round and raised a ruccus or scared ICA enough to worry about a future possible ruccus of that sort) and come out from clubbin in her little social swirl later and go crash out somewhere, pulling little Caylee out of the trunk.All MOO just my own feel for what brought this on. MOO ICA felt very entitled to behave in this cavelier manner towards Caylee as the brat was the reason her mom was all over her *advertiser censored**. And she didn't even see Caylee as valid enough to consider for a moment the possible consequences or intrinsic wrongness of what she was doing.

I think ICA has always had dificulty accepting "no" as an answer. I also think ICA has long been very good at manipulating her way into being able to do nothing but whatever suits ICA at the moment.

I think the 16th is crucial in that it contributed to ICA needing to go out and validate herself with socializing but needed to be unhampered by the kid. It was a nice little secret dig at CA to put Caylee in that trunk. That is moo. I don't think she cared enough about that child to kill her.

I find ICA to be very imature and whim driven

MY BOLD

I've said this before, but believe it bears repeating. There is absolutely no way that anyone could survive but the briefest of minutes locked in an airless trunk in the summer in south Florida. At best, a person would cling to life but emerge horribly brain-damaged, but death would result quickly. And any adult, even an immature one like ICA, who spent any time whatsoever in Florida, would know that this would not be a survivable event. Even in the balmier winter months, temps are often in the mid-80s, and a trunk would soon become a death-trap. If ICA put her daughter in the trunk, she knew she was signing her death warrant.

 

[tlcya]

MY BOLD

I've said this before, but believe it bears repeating. There is absolutely no way that anyone could survive but the briefest of minutes locked in an airless trunk in the summer in south Florida. At best, a person would cling to life but emerge horribly brain-damaged, but death would result quickly. And any adult, even an immature one like ICA, who spent any time whatsoever in Florida, would know that this would not be a survivable event. Even in the balmier winter months, temps are often in the mid-80s, and a trunk would soon become a death-trap. If ICA put her daughter in the trunk, she knew she was signing her death warrant.

I don't think ICA views another living being as real or valid. I honestly think she is a sociopath. Whether she was born one or became one growing up in that home with that dysfunction I don't know. But that is my honest opinion.

I don't think that child warranted enough thought to consider those things. Not excusing no no. Just saying I do not think there was a plan to murder Caylee. I think ICA did exactly what she has always done, which is exactly what she wanted. I think she never gave it a thought outside, this will keep her out of my way while I go do as I please.

I hope ICA never sees the light of day. She is one scary, soulless, consciousless being IMO and that will never change, not when shes 50, not when she's 80, not while she breaths.

ETA bringing things back on topic. I think the fight was instrumental in that it put ICA in a "I'll show her (CA)" mood. Tell me I am irresponsible, only want to run around a party and think everyone owes me something. Well they DO! I'm going to do what I want when I want, she''ll see." <-- my own interpretation of the mental ramblings of ICA after the fight.

 

[The World According]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpV1tIyD7rE[/ame]

 

[sirensong]

I do think that CA will never admit to the fight because it provides SA with a motive. They had a huge fight, KC became enraged and may have taken it out on Caylee. We certainly know something happened that night or next day to cause Caylee's death. The jailhouse tape has provided up with a sample of KC's ability to show rage. jmo

I agree with you! I have never believed GA saw ICA and Caylee on the 16th. I don't really understand the ping maps, but I see where the Anthony home called ICA cell at 7:35 am. That tells me she was not home! My theory is that she left the house, with Caylee, parked somewhere near the Anthony home, and talked/texted TL most of the night.

I believe Caylee was screaming/crying and ICA taped her mouth shut and threw her in the trunk in a rage. She may have waited until the morning, and told GA Caylee was with nanny, but she needed to shower and go to work. I do not believe Caylee was still alive by that time.

I go back and forth on the time line, but I do believe the dogs hit in the backyard because ICA had the smell of decomp on her shoes, hands or something after going into the garage and finding bags/laundry bag to put Caylee in, then went to the shed before she left. Or, GA and CA found something of Caylees in the backyard when they searched after getting the car, and it had been close enough to Caylee for them to pick up the scent.

I dont post much, but read every day. I think Caylee is smiling on all of you, for your love, concern, intelligence and perseverence! :angel: So many things have been hidden by the family, no one will never know for sure exactly how and when it happened. But I do believe the fight was the catalyst. "Things said" in the "worst of days" poem.

There were a million other things I was gonna say, but have now forgotten! LOL!

 

[Just Jayla]

MY BOLD

I've said this before, but believe it bears repeating. There is absolutely no way that anyone could survive but the briefest of minutes locked in an airless trunk in the summer in south Florida. At best, a person would cling to life but emerge horribly brain-damaged, but death would result quickly. And any adult, even an immature one like ICA, who spent any time whatsoever in Florida, would know that this would not be a survivable event. Even in the balmier winter months, temps are often in the mid-80s, and a trunk would soon become a death-trap. If ICA put her daughter in the trunk, she knew she was signing her death warrant.

She would also be committing aggravated child abuse which resulted in death. Same punishment she faces now.

 

[txsvicki]

I don't think the fight was any catalyst for the murder of Caylee, but that Casey was not going to be able to get out of the recent thefts from her grandparents and that Cindy was going to try for custody. Her gravy train was going to come to an end plus probably be liable for child support on Caylee. Casey probably picked the fight, made threats, and egged it on somehow with her manipulations.

 

[Ada]

MY BOLD

I've said this before, but believe it bears repeating. There is absolutely no way that anyone could survive but the briefest of minutes locked in an airless trunk in the summer in south Florida. At best, a person would cling to life but emerge horribly brain-damaged, but death would result quickly. And any adult, even an immature one like ICA, who spent any time whatsoever in Florida, would know that this would not be a survivable event. Even in the balmier winter months, temps are often in the mid-80s, and a trunk would soon become a death-trap. If ICA put her daughter in the trunk, she knew she was signing her death warrant.

Agreed. And living in the south (not as south as Fl but still) there are constant media reminders about the dangers of closed up cars and trunks. Public service announcements, if you will, for those who are stupid enough to put their people or pets in closed cars.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I think Casey had nefarious plans for each and every one of them at one point or another. To me, it is clear that Casey had murder on her mind for months leading up to Caylee's actual murder. Whether she went back and forth between murdering her parents and Caylee... or she had planned on taking them all out... I don't know?

I do believe Shirley 100% when she says that Casey hated Cindy more than she loved Caylee (which still breaks my heart... poor Caylee). I think that Cindy had threatened Casey that night for the last time.

I still think the worst possible punishement for Casey would be to lock her in a cell with Cindy for an extended amount of time... that, IMO, is the reason Caylee is no longer here. Casey wanted to be rid of Cindy, and in Casey's twisted mind, Caylee was the only thing tying them together.

 

[tlcya]

I will say that IMO, if she intended, based on her internet use, to kill someone, If she indeed intended to kill either or both of the A s, then IMO Caylee would have been useless as a tool of manipulation.