Did John Ramsey carry the body to contaminate the scene or not?

[ScarlettScarpetta]

The police should have already found the body though.

Yes. This the whole issue. That the police should have done a thorough search looking for evidence of the kidnapping, every room should have been searched and sealed. for CSI.. If they had done that, the police would have found her and maybe we would have more evidence from the intruder.

 

[InstantProof]

Was done for show with their invited guests, IMO.

 

[Frigga]

I would cradle my baby in my arms- best I could- not hold her away as if carrying an object. Makes no sense whatsoever the description of how her carried her- none at all. No one is going to convince me any different either. Weird.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I would cradle my baby in my arms- best I could- not hold her away as if carrying an object. Makes no sense whatsoever the description of how her carried her- none at all. No one is going to convince me any different either. Weird.

I think he had no choice.. She was stiff, I don't know if there was any way to carry her that would have looked any better. It was just the way she was already stiff.

IT is so horrible to even think of that as I type it. This poor baby and poor family.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I think he had no choice.. She was stiff, I don't know if there was any way to carry her that would have looked any better. It was just the way she was already stiff.

IT is so horrible to even think of that as I type it. This poor baby and poor family.

He did have a choice.

He didn't have to pick her up and carry her anywhere.

It must've been obvious she was deceased.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

John found the body around 11 am and chose to keep quiet. He faked finding it at 1 pm.

 

[Venom]

He did have a choice.

He didn't have to pick her up and carry her anywhere.

It must've been obvious she was deceased.

That's what I've been thinking. If you truly had no idea your child was dead, I think finding them would be a shock at first. Why wouldn't he have called out for help, FW was down there with him. Mourning wouldn't have happened until a little later. JMO
:moo:

 

[Venom]

John found the body around 11 am and chose to keep quiet. He faked finding it at 1 pm.

I know your theory. Do you think when he found her at 11 he knew it was PR? Why wouldn't he have told the police he found her body then. Why wait until 1?

 

[2 percent]

He did have a choice.

He didn't have to pick her up and carry her anywhere.

It must've been obvious she was deceased.

I've seen a father swim to the bottom of the pool, knowing his boy was dead, bring him out and try to get help, giving mouth to mouth. I don't know parents are rational about the death of their child. Unfortunately this disbelief can cut both ways.

 

[Venom]

I've seen a father swim to the bottom of the pool, knowing his boy was dead, bring him out and try to get help, giving mouth to mouth. I don't know parents are rational about the death of their child. Unfortunately this disbelief can cut both ways.

I can even fathom that, like in denial that the child died.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I've seen a father swim to the bottom of the pool, knowing his boy was dead, bring him out and try to get help, giving mouth to mouth. I don't know parents are rational about the death of their child. Unfortunately this disbelief can cut both ways.

Have you ever seen a corpse that has been sittiing around for 7+ hours?

Decay has already begun. JB's eyes would have started to fall back in her skull (sorry). She would have begun to turn blue in her extremities. She was frozen rigid in the position she was left in, with her arms sticking straight up, but still he hoisted her.

It would have been like picking up a dead sheep carcass out of the paddock. Already some insect activity, some odour, totally resistant to movement - the term "dead weight" springs to mind.

Delirious grief on behalf of John that he didn't notice these things, does not fit in with a man who was capable of reading his mail while waiting for a kidnapper to call, nor one who decided to fly his own plane out later that day, corpse handling or not. Totally inconsistent behaviour.

JR picking up her remains and walking upstairs with it would have been like something out of a horror story. If you haven't been around a lot of fresh dead bodies, there's a reason why dead bodies are covered with sheets. They just aren't pretty, and they ARE NOT the person you've just lost, merely a shell.

I have had animals die in my arms and it is incredible how quickly they go from "is she going to die" to "yup, she's gone". You can practically see it draining away. It is absolutely unmistakeable when the life has gone.

Picking up a limp freshly drowned child from a swimming pool is not comparable. No one would ever say "oh just leave him there", he may well still be rescuable. At very least he would still be flesh toned.

:cow:

 

[Venom]

Have you ever seen a corpse that has been sittiing around for 7+ hours?

Decay has already begun. JB's eyes would have started to fall back in her skull (sorry). She would have begun to turn blue in her extremities. She was frozen rigid in the position she was left in, with her arms sticking straight up, but still he hoisted her.

It would have been like picking up a dead sheep carcass out of the paddock. Already some insect activity, some odour, totally resistant to movement - the term "dead weight" springs to mind.

Delirious grief on behalf of John that he didn't notice these things, does not fit in with a man who was capable of reading his mail while waiting for a kidnapper to call, nor one who decided to fly his own plane out later that day, corpse handling or not. Totally inconsistent behaviour.

JR picking up her remains and walking upstairs with it would have been like something out of a horror story. If you haven't been around a lot of fresh dead bodies, there's a reason why dead bodies are covered with sheets. They just aren't pretty, and they ARE NOT the person you've just lost, merely a shell.

I have had animals die in my arms and it is incredible how quickly they go from "is she going to die" to "yup, she's gone". You can practically see it draining away. It is absolutely unmistakeable when the life has gone.

Picking up a limp freshly drowned child from a swimming pool is not comparable. No one would ever say "oh just leave him there", he may well still be rescuable. At very least he would still be flesh toned.

:cow:

You have a point there, no denial if that was the case. I see your point.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

John found the body around 11 am and chose to keep quiet. He faked finding it at 1 pm.

 

[2 percent]

Have you ever seen a corpse that has been sittiing around for 7+ hours?

Decay has already begun. JB's eyes would have started to fall back in her skull (sorry). She would have begun to turn blue in her extremities. She was frozen rigid in the position she was left in, with her arms sticking straight up, but still he hoisted her.

It would have been like picking up a dead sheep carcass out of the paddock. Already some insect activity, some odour, totally resistant to movement - the term "dead weight" springs to mind.

Delirious grief on behalf of John that he didn't notice these things, does not fit in with a man who was capable of reading his mail while waiting for a kidnapper to call, nor one who decided to fly his own plane out later that day, corpse handling or not. Totally inconsistent behaviour.

JR picking up her remains and walking upstairs with it would have been like something out of a horror story. If you haven't been around a lot of fresh dead bodies, there's a reason why dead bodies are covered with sheets. They just aren't pretty, and they ARE NOT the person you've just lost, merely a shell.

I have had animals die in my arms and it is incredible how quickly they go from "is she going to die" to "yup, she's gone". You can practically see it draining away. It is absolutely unmistakeable when the life has gone.

Picking up a limp freshly drowned child from a swimming pool is not comparable. No one would ever say "oh just leave him there", he may well still be rescuable. At very least he would still be flesh toned.

:cow:

He wasn't freshly drowned but that really wasn't the point.

The point is that JR surely saw the necessity to pull tape from a blue tinged child. He had no reason to think just being blue wasn't fixable considering we see blue tinged drowned, electrocuted, choked and choking children who are revived every day.

 

[Detective Pinkie]

Look, this is all speculation, no one knows what really happened or how they would react in this situation. But, the people saying that JR picked up the body to get help need for us to believe that it was quicker to pick up the body and take it upstairs than to call for help and have people run to the cellar. Or for JR to believe that.
JR had to bend down to the ground or crouch and pick up a stiff, uncooperative 6 year old, get back up, get out of the wine cellar, manage stairs with that dead weight and believe that is quicker than calling out and FW coming from nearby or people running DOWN stairs to help.
I basically can not imagine a scenario where you find your child in your house after believing them kidnapped and not calling out straight away. By the time you have got close enough to pick up the child (let alone to see if they are ok) someone should be in that room with you.
While I do admit it was wrong for the police to let civillians search the house, this has nothing to do with the question. John didn't move the body to teach the police a lesson about maintaining crime scene integrity.

 

[DeeDee249]

He was wearing the shirt the night before and carried her up to bed, She could have had those fibers all over her and then the killer as he touched her and moved her and killed her moved them around too.

Then those fibers would be ALL over her clothes and white blanket too. They weren't.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

I know your theory. Do you think when he found her at 11 he knew it was PR? Why wouldn't he have told the police he found her body then. Why wait until 1?

He knew the r n was odd. He knew Patsy was odd.

Odd Patsy + odd r n = my *advertiser censored* is in a vice and if I look at who is turning the handle my whole life goes back to Beth's death. He went into limbo between the shrew turning the screw and the blue screw crue waiting to put the clamps on his trophy wife.

Limbo ended when Arndt opened the gates to the hounds and John beat the dogs to the punch by finding the intruder when he fake found the body.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

Then those fibers would be ALL over her clothes and white blanket too. They weren't.

Source that.

 

[Sandraella]

i chose no because in the back of my mind i think he thought maybe there might of been some hope she was still alive and needed air to breathe and he took her to get help for her

 

[Ausgirl]

Have you ever seen a corpse that has been sittiing around for 7+ hours?

Yes.

His sister and I went a little bit mad, I think, when we found him. I'd gone over to wake him up, was nudging him when I noticed he was cold..

The two of us, despite him being blue, cold and in rigor and very clearly dead, spent at least a few minutes trying to wake him up. I lay over the body at one point, much as Patsy did. Thank goodness it wasn't a murder scene, hey?

We also called people to come over and help us - with what? I dunno. We were completely lost.

I cannot --imagine-- after feeling what I felt that day, and doing what I did, and didn't do "correctly" (lol) what it would feel like to find your own small child dead.

I have never, for that reason, been able to judge the Ramseys for anything they did after finding her.

(edited with correction)