Does Casey need a new attorney?

[mollie]

JB would have to do something extremely horrible as to case law for it to become an winnable case on appeal, once KC is convicted(thus gets automatic appeal).

I don't know about FL case laws, but in TX, even a defense lawyer falling asleep, in court, among other things, was not reason enough for a defendant convicted to death to gain a new trial with lawyer error. This poor man, the defendant had the IQ of a 12 year old.

So, that said, I'm more and more confident that judges are aware of "trick" plays by underhanded lawyers who might be in over their heads and thus doing everything to cover the court of law's base: ordering KC to court, closing one appeal option.

 

[Stocirpa]

While I wholeheartedly believe that Casey Anthony murdered her daughter Caylee in a clearly evil, emotionally detached and deliberate Manner, I also believe that she is entitled to a fair trial. I fail to comprehend how she can receive a fair trial when she has an inexperienced buffoon serving as her attorney and a convicted felon churning out PR on her behalf. At the very least, Casey requires the services of a highly reputable, qualified and greatly experienced criminal defense attorney.

 

[zoey]

I've been thinking maybe, JB is getting a little tired of KC. I've been watching his expressions, such as when she throws the pen at him, he looks a little fed up with her, maybe he's getting tired of her bs. Maybe maybe not.

possible but I think he knows he is beng watched....and is critical of it...aft3er all he has been brought up over and over again how close those to appear to be..He may not say he pays attention to gossip but I think he does....

 

[kathyn2]

I don't care much for Baez but he has managed to put together a top notch team to try and bamboozle the jurors. You have to give him credit for that. I don't know how he is paying them (would love to know) or why they would want to hook themselves up to a murderous mother but they have. Have you noticed how silent Kobalinski is these days tho? I wonder why he disappeared?

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

I don't want her to get an appeal just because he's inept!

In all actuality, I think that is SOOOOO unlikely to happen. There have been cases with truly awful, truly inept defense attorneys, where they don't get a new trial or the conviction overturned.

Every defendant found guilty gets a direct appeal. If they are indigent they get an appellant public defender. After all direct appeals, which is an appeal on the evidence, what happened at trial, etc, then they can go for post conviction relief, which is ineffective assistance of counsel. Many are filed. Very, very few prevail. JB is probably a bad lawyer, but, Casey chose him, Casey has watched him in court, so her chances are slim. I have always heard, not sure how true this is, that retained counsel is far less likely to be found ineffective over appointed.

 

[DotsEyes]

Quoted from OP "Latest is the Todd Black/Felon story and the speculation that "Todd Black" may be paying for the defense so he has rights to the story.

But there has been the "smuggling of contraband" with the bracelet last week.

Baez' pathetic motion writing skills

Baez' propensity to have the prosecution do all of his work for him.

Inappropriate contact with Casey at the jail.

Bar complaints against Baez." Unquote


It doesn't matter if Todd Black is paying for KC's defense in exchange for movie rights. As long as Mr. Blackmail himself isn't directing the representation by JB and it was in exchange for movie rights from KC - there is nothing wrong whatsoever in Mr. Blackmail paying for her defense.

I must agree with LP on the bracelet and I think CA put it in the socks, not JB. He just delivered the package of clothing to the jail.

I would bet that JB does not write his own motions and even if he does, he still gets what he is after, no matter how poorly written anyone may think the motions are.

The prosecution has stalled JB, not the other way around. They aren't doing any "work for him" and it is a misrepresentation to say so.

Since the jail does not allow any physical contact, he should have made this clear to KC and refrained from hugging her in the meeting room. He was admonished by the jailor, so no harm done. (And yes, attorneys hug their clients all the time)

Bar complaints. We do not know the nature of these complaints, who made the complaints and whether any action was deemed necessary after the Bar Association looked into the matter. Just having a complaint filed is meaningless, lots of clients file complaints when things do not go their way.

You all keep making me defend JB. I haven't seen a single thing that leads me to think that he is incompetent or incapable of vigorously representing KC. In fact, he is doing a good job.

It seems kind of foolish to want KC convicted but then criticize her attorney by calling him incompetent and all sorts of names. Incomptetent counsel assures a reversal on appeal, so I am not sure why so many people want to claim that he is a nincompoop. There is only one person who can remove him as KC's counsel and that is KC. Why discuss having him removed when it is not even possible?

 

[Mom of Five]

I voted Yes, she needs a new attorney. I would rather say that I think she'd be better off with a new attorney. I think that JB might be able to do an ok job but I don't think he is KC's advocate. I really believe that whether it's a family law case, a civil case or criminal; a good lawyer is his client's advocate. It does not appear to me that this is the case with JB. This is only my opinion, it's based on many things such as;

a. He wants all of her thoughts and opinions to be based on information supplied by only himself or his colleagues.
b. He does not want her to be supplied with all available info without it being filtered first and spun by him.
c. He has prevented her from having access to her family imo to prevent any possibility of a confession or any other incriminating remark.
d. He has not properly conveyed the probability that she will spend her life in prison at the very least or she wouldn't be playing with pens and smiling during court appearances.

I will share a bit of personal experience to let you know where I'm coming from. Sixteen years ago I was involved in a ver nasty divorce. My ex and I each went through three attorneys before finally settling everything. Together we had a lot of property but more importantly we had four precious children. The final attorney I hired sat down with me and just said, "Cheryl you can ask for everything in the world and we can fight forever, or you can ask for what's reasonable and most important and then your husband looks like the petty man that he is and you'll settle this and be able to move on." That was the best advice. He could have kept me on retainer fighting for every last penny and being paid by the hour but he was my advocate and he took care of me.

Obviously JB's job is to defend KC in a court of law but right now she's in jail with no contact with her family and no support system. Anyone who has heard of her hates her and he has not been succesful in any way in improving her reputation. He has made ridiculous statements regarding KC not giving info to LE about Caylee because it won't help her case. If that doesn't make a defendant sound guilty I don't know what does. He has to know that he is not a seasoned enough attorney to be handling such a high profile case and then he adds more to his plate by accepting a job teaching. It's just bizarre. When all is said and done and KC is found guilty, people will question the quality of her defense. There's no doubt in my mind that she would be better off with an attorney that has more experience. A more experienced attorney might have tried to plead to a lesser crime for a lighter sentence. KC is going to get the worst of it because of all of her lies and if she purjures herself it will be even worse.

 

[Patty G]

ITA. Assuming she is convicted of course.

Well there is that chance of a "hung jury" so that turns it back to the State to try again! Chances of "not guilty" ... IMO, never happen.

 

[Starfish]

IMO she doesn't deserve anything. The fact that she picked an incompetant lawyer is karma coming around. They're like two peas in a pod they deserve each other.

 

[Mom of Five]

Quoted from OP "Latest is the Todd Black/Felon story and the speculation that "Todd Black" may be paying for the defense so he has rights to the story.

But there has been the "smuggling of contraband" with the bracelet last week.

Baez' pathetic motion writing skills

Baez' propensity to have the prosecution do all of his work for him.

Inappropriate contact with Casey at the jail.

Bar complaints against Baez." Unquote


It doesn't matter if Todd Black is paying for KC's defense in exchange for movie rights. As long as Mr. Blackmail himself isn't directing the representation by JB and it was in exchange for movie rights from KC - there is nothing wrong whatsoever in Mr. Blackmail paying for her defense.

I must agree with LP on the bracelet and I think CA put it in the socks, not JB. He just delivered the package of clothing to the jail.

I would bet that JB does not write his own motions and even if he does, he still gets what he is after, no matter how poorly written anyone may think the motions are.

The prosecution has stalled JB, not the other way around. They aren't doing any "work for him" and it is a misrepresentation to say so.

Since the jail does not allow any physical contact, he should have made this clear to KC and refrained from hugging her in the meeting room. He was admonished by the jailor, so no harm done. (And yes, attorneys hug their clients all the time)

Bar complaints. We do not know the nature of these complaints, who made the complaints and whether any action was deemed necessary after the Bar Association looked into the matter. Just having a complaint filed is meaningless, lots of clients file complaints when things do not go their way.

You all keep making me defend JB. I haven't seen a single thing that leads me to think that he is incompetent or incapable of vigorously representing KC. In fact, he is doing a good job.

It seems kind of foolish to want KC convicted but then criticize her attorney by calling him incompetent and all sorts of names. Incomptetent counsel assures a reversal on appeal, so I am not sure why so many people want to claim that he is a nincompoop. There is only one person who can remove him as KC's counsel and that is KC. Why discuss having him removed when it is not even possible?

That's just it, we want her convicted and we don't want there to be a possibility of an appeal based on poor representation. I also believe that regardless of who you are you deserve to have good legal representation and I have to disagree with you, he has not done a good job. He hasn't done a good job representing his other clients either.
As far as the hugging goes, he shouldn't have hugged KC. He did it more than once and attorneys don't hug their clents all the time, at least not in California..
The prosecution has supplied JB with everything that he has properly requested, it's not their fault nor is it their responsibility to either figure out what he meant to say or to go through evidence and pick out what will be meaningful to him. They have not stalled him and that's a misrepresentation to say that they have. On top of that, he wants copies to be suppled to him for free and has not paid for some of the things he has requested. He has made a lot of noise accusing the prosecution of not being cooperative and apparently some people have bought his baloney.
JB should have plead to a lower charge on KC's behalf but that wouldn't have brought him nearly the noteriety that fighting the charges will. I for one hope that his plan backfires. He has not successfully defended a client on a serious charge yet. Hopefully, no one else will hire him after this. He is not doing KC any favors and whether we think she's guilty or not, she deserves proper representation.

 

[radio]

If Baez is flushed out before the trial .... and she gets a new attorney - does that mean the trial time frame goes back to zero or does it just move on as scheduled? Hope someone knows how that works.

 

[Rumpole]

Haven't read the thread yet, sorry but have to say it up front.

Heck no. JB doing a fantastic poor job. Keep Schtum people.

 

[skygirl]

Personally, I'd prefer to have an attorney that is more concerned about preserving my rights than becoming golf buddies with the judge. And in any event, I think JB has been quite respectful of the Judge and handled himself well in court proceedings.

I agree about the 'rights' concern, KC does not seem at all concerned at the depth of the situation, And what is actually going on. Her Choice.

As far as JB being respectful....

Yes, just like when he (JB) stood up to argue the TES motion for the umpteenth time and the Judge Told him to get the info. to him by noon that day. Basically that he didn't have time for anymore of his 'arguments' because of time constraints, and JB IGNORED the judge and keep right on rambling.... (for the record, right?)

on a side ? why do all of the other attorneys address Stan s as "your Honour" and JB "Judge"? It's a sign of respect.

Sorry, but I was brought up to say mam and sir and respect thy a-thor-a-ty! And I'm not a law professional. But anyone can show how to respect the court. And as a 'lay-person', I can see where this is 'lacking'. I also hold the S. last name near and dear. So I'm proud that the "ringmaster" is a professional. Because most saw the dog and pony show that went on in the Anna N. S. trial in FL. And I PRAY if change of venue is granted, this Won't be a repete.

 

[Rumpole]

I am surprised. 60% want to give KC an even break and get her a better lawyer?

I wonder how Caylee would vote?

 

[skygirl]

I don't care much for Baez but he has managed to put together a top notch team to try and bamboozle the jurors. You have to give him credit for that. I don't know how he is paying them (would love to know) or why they would want to hook themselves up to a murderous mother but they have. Have you noticed how silent Kobalinski is these days tho? I wonder why he disappeared?

I'm thinking the ole three hour tour with GR could be where the 'top notch' connections come in to play?

As far as Kobo. I didn't see his name on the list of experts that were "flown in and put up by the defense" motion either....Maybe he has seen the truth and it has set him free?


IMO

 

[bunnyphoenix1]

That's just it, we want her convicted and we don't want there to be a possibility of an appeal based on poor representation. I also believe that regardless of who you are you deserve to have good legal representation and I have to disagree with you, he has not done a good job. He hasn't done a good job representing his other clients either.
As far as the hugging goes, he shouldn't have hugged KC. He did it more than once and attorneys don't hug their clents all the time, at least not in California..
The prosecution has supplied JB with everything that he has properly requested, it's not their fault nor is it their responsibility to either figure out what he meant to say or to go through evidence and pick out what will be meaningful to him. They have not stalled him and that's a misrepresentation to say that they have. On top of that, he wants copies to be suppled to him for free and has not paid for some of the things he has requested. He has made a lot of noise accusing the prosecution of not being cooperative and apparently some people have bought his baloney.
JB should have plead to a lower charge on KC's behalf but that wouldn't have brought him nearly the noteriety that fighting the charges will. I for one hope that his plan backfires. He has not successfully defended a client on a serious charge yet. Hopefully, no one else will hire him after this. He is not doing KC any favors and whether we think she's guilty or not, she deserves proper representation.

In criminal law, even if you lose, it doesn't mean you aren't a good lawyer...the fact is, a high percentage of clients are guilty and the jury usually gets it right. So his track record means little to me without knowing the details of those cases.

We can only speculate as to what has transpired between JB & KC...it appears it was JB who originally contacted the SA about a possible deal, and somehow his written request to them found its way into the media. For all we know, he did advise her very strongly that she should try to do a deal, and she may have maintained her innocence and was fully informed and willing to take her chances with a jury. If that happened, he's not going to walk out and tell the press that he's tried hard to make her plead, but she won't do it.

I think he will get a lot of business out of this as he is coming across as someone willing to fight for an underdog client and that will make him popular with criminals, which is his market.

 

[bunnyphoenix1]

I agree about the 'rights' concern, KC does not seem at all concerned at the depth of the situation, And what is actually going on. Her Choice.

As far as JB being respectful....

Yes, just like when he (JB) stood up to argue the TES motion for the umpteenth time and the Judge Told him to get the info. to him by noon that day. Basically that he didn't have time for anymore of his 'arguments' because of time constraints, and JB IGNORED the judge and keep right on rambling.... (for the record, right?)

on a side ? why do all of the other attorneys address Stan s as "your Honour" and JB "Judge"? It's a sign of respect.

Sorry, but I was brought up to say mam and sir and respect thy a-thor-a-ty! And I'm not a law professional. But anyone can show how to respect the court. And as a 'lay-person', I can see where this is 'lacking'. I also hold the S. last name near and dear. So I'm proud that the "ringmaster" is a professional. Because most saw the dog and pony show that went on in the Anna N. S. trial in FL. And I PRAY if change of venue is granted, this Won't be a repete.

If JB is never provided with the information he needs from TES (and I'm not saying he necessarily needs everything he originally requested like all volunteer details), that would be his strongest appeal point yet. He would have been a fool to not try to subpoena any relevant information they may have. He has to take the point, even if he loses. It is his job.

I don't agree that the Judge expressed frustration with JB or thought he was incompetent at all and not sure why you say that? Where I come from, a Judge would frequently request counsel to get him additional cases/materials etc by a certain time. Routine stuff.

Where I come from, if you called a Judge "sir" or "mam", some would be very offended. Where I come from, there are different names that are considered acceptable, and calling a Judge, "Judge" is certainly acceptable and many lawyers do call them that, and/or interchange it with Your Honour, Justice, Your Worship (depending on the Court).

 

[trusttheping]

This is who she picked. For some unknown reason, she keeps getting all these high profile experts on her case. They don't seem to be dropping off, they stay on. Although I am no legal expert......I would think if he is that bad in ethics one of the others would speak out. I wouldn't hire him for anything.

 

[MaryAnn]

unlike JB she needs an attorney that thinks with the head on his shoulders. JB's pawing at KC makes me want to puke.

 

[drip~drop]

I voted yes because I feel in my heart that defending Casey is not why he is on the case. I feel that he see's this as his meal ticket to life, and exactly what he needs to make himself known to this world. I do not think he has her best interest at heart, not whatsoever.
I would much prefer someone who comes into to this case with the SOLE purpose of upholding the constitution..not someone who is only out for themselves.
I know in my heart she is guilty, and I know that leaving Baez will get her convicted quickly, however, I don't want there to be any basis for an appeal down the road.
I honestly think she needs a new attorney who will advice her of exactly what she is facing, and to be honest with her about her options.. Baez, IMHO is not doing that.

bolded and colored by ~drip

This is ALL I feel he is on this case for. moo...imo...imho...
everything else is secondary, like casey and seeming least of all is our baby Caylee. the entire scenerio is maddening.
:cow: moo:banghead: