Emergency Hearing 12/16/08 UPDATE: Motions Denied

I noticed only one other poster mentioned, what I thought was one of the most interesting bits of info to come out of this hearing. The 3" bone fragment that is being sent off to the FBI labs is going to be used for Toxocology tests. In fact I am pretty sure the state's attorney had to amend what he was saying about bones being macerated and add that this fragment 'would' be destroyed during the toxocolgy testing. Can't wait to find out what those results are!
 
All I can say about today's ridiculous actions by JB is it looks as though he has entered the state of panic of losing this case.
LE is giving him absolutely nothing to to cue KC on her next spin of what happened.
Looks as though he is trying to take over CA's job in giving KC ideas...but Le has stopped him before he can.
He is that stupid to think that LE has not seen through all these people on how they develop their story according to the info provided to them.
Yeah Jose.....come on in and take a look around.....remember what you see so you can let KC know and adjust her story accordingly!!!!!! WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Does this man really have a law degree???????????????????????????:eek::eek:
 
No it doesn't. Unless Baez commits something that gets him disbarred during trial it is highly unlikley that any appeals based on incompetant defense will be allowed. JB is not a public defender. The client selected and hired him. h3e represents her at her pleasure. He is obviously spending alot of time with the client and working diligently on her case. You select the lawyer. If you choose to select and pay a stupid one, so be it.
Judge S has done a very good job of treating JB's stupidity in a calm and even manner, to avoid any hints of incompetance, and he also appears to be watching carefully for any lawyer actions that might harm the client.

There is a much deeper legal standard for retrial based on incompetent defense then has been seen here sofar. In fact the assemply of the "Sceme team" assures that KC is getting the best hollywood defense that money could possibly buy.


Although I disagree with the statement as to what is a basis to challenge a trial attorney's competence, I am more alarmed at the suggestion that trial work standards might be different based on the origins of payment.

A public defender shoulders the same burdens as private counsel, during the trial.

The state might cover their overhead, but who cares.
They are held to the same codes of ethics, performance, and competence.

I don't venture a guess as to JB's IQ. Aptitude to excel as a criminal trial attorney is not a measure of intelligence.

I am not sure what a "deeper legal standard " means, in this, or any other context.:)

jmho
 
Ok, I checked and according to the ME's office, Casey is Caylee's legal next of kin. she may be in jail on charges of murdering Caylee, but she has not been convicted of any crime so she is still her next of kin, and she will be the one to make all decisions regarding Caylee's remains, unless she give permissin for her parents to do it or JB.

That is the most logical under present law. She is not convicted yet, so they can't take that right just because she was arrested without proper court order.
 



Although I disagree with the statement as to what is a basis to challenge a trial attorney's competence, I am more alarmed at the suggestion that trial work standards might be different based on the origins of payment.

A public defender shoulders the same burdens as private counsel, during the trial.

The state might cover their overhead, but who cares.
They are held to the same codes of ethics, performance, and competence.

I don't venture a guess as to JB's IQ. Aptitude to excel as a criminal trial attorney is not a measure of intelligence.

I am not sure what a "deeper legal standard " means, in this, or any other context.:)

jmho
I didn't read it as a standard of conduct issue as much as the fact that the world-class experts on Team Casey would make the issue of incompetent counsel moot.

That said, I do believe that defendants who have the wherewithal to hire the best counsel and expert witnesses have a leg up on the defendants who don't have that benefit at their disposal. It doesn't necessarily result in acquittal, but it sure don't hurt.
 



Although I disagree with the statement as to what is a basis to challenge a trial attorney's competence, I am more alarmed at the suggestion that trial work standards might be different based on the origins of payment.

A public defender shoulders the same burdens as private counsel, during the trial.

The state might cover their overhead, but who cares.
They are held to the same codes of ethics, performance, and competence.

I don't venture a guess as to JB's IQ. Aptitude to excel as a criminal trial attorney is not a measure of intelligence.

I am not sure what a "deeper legal standard " means, in this, or any other context.:)

jmho


Really? Do you think Mrs. Baden's pro bono work trial standards are going to be the same as those of either a public defender (paid for by the state) or a pribvately contracted and paid attorney (paid for directly by the client)? When the lawyers payment is publicity, limelight and telivision time, is the eventual work product the same or as effective as a situation where the Lawyers interests have been established and met from the outset?

Having a Lawyer who does not put on a winning case is not grounds for appeal or aquital because of incompetant trial representation. There needs to be some act of gross malfeasence. the defense attorney who slept through court. Failing to depose, speak with or call key witnesses that are listed in the discovery. failure to agressively act for their client. In the case of JB he is doing what he should be doing. He is arguing motions, he is seeking evidence, he is spending an awful lot of time with his client. he may be a fool and an idiot, but that does not necesarily rise to the standard of reversable issue.

It isn't that the court will take the mechanism of payment into account to assume that a public defender is not doing an adequite job. The court will take the source of the attorney into account. In the case of a privately hired attorney, the client has every right to dismiss and replace a lawyer if they feel they are getting inadequite council. Especially before the trial starts. This is far less of an option for a case involving a public defender. Since the defendents are more often tied to their public defenders with no other recourse, some closer examination may occur.
 
Really? Do you think Mrs. Baden's pro bono work trial standards are going to be the same as those of either a public defender (paid for by the state) or a pribvately contracted and paid attorney (paid for directly by the client)? When the lawyers payment is publicity, limelight and telivision time, is the eventual work product the same or as effective as a situation where the Lawyers interests have been established and met from the outset?

Having a Lawyer who does not put on a winning case is not grounds for appeal or aquital because of incompetant trial representation. There needs to be some act of gross malfeasence. the defense attorney who slept through court. Failing to depose, speak with or call key witnesses that are listed in the discovery. failure to agressively act for their client. In the case of JB he is doing what he should be doing. He is arguing motions, he is seeking evidence, he is spending an awful lot of time with his client. he may be a fool and an idiot, but that does not necesarily rise to the standard of reversable issue.

It isn't that the court will take the mechanism of payment into account to assume that a public defender is not doing an adequite job. The court will take the source of the attorney into account. In the case of a privately hired attorney, the client has every right to dismiss and replace a lawyer if they feel they are getting inadequite council. Especially before the trial starts. This is far less of an option for a case involving a public defender. Since the defendents are more often tied to their public defenders with no other recourse, some closer examination may occur.


I'm pretty sure that whether a lawyer is public or private,

Either way , they both have to file the same motion to get out of a case in which an appearance is filed in Criminal Court.

That same motion to be relieved from the case, or to "disappear" has to be allowed by a Judge. It is not automatic.

It is not uncommon for trial attorneys to fret about the possibility of "not getting out of the case", by way of worrying that that motion will be denied.

I have seen plenty of instances in which defendants have dumped their public defenders, and instances where the defendant would have liked to dump the private lawyer but felt that they had invested too much money in the private attorney so they then stuck with it.

I am not saying it is a general rule.

It is just what I personally have seen happen over the years in Criminal Courts.:blowkiss:
 
Question regarding JB and team's access to the crime site? Once LE is finished and the site is cleared will JB and his team have a legal right to enter private property to do their own investigation of the site? Obviously LE has the legal right but JB is a private party.
 
I didn't read it as a standard of conduct issue as much as the fact that the world-class experts on Team Casey would make the issue of incompetent counsel moot.

That said, I do believe that defendants who have the wherewithal to hire the best counsel and expert witnesses have a leg up on the defendants who don't have that benefit at their disposal. It doesn't necessarily result in acquittal, but it sure don't hurt.


I know what you are saying. :wink: Believe me I know. And I appreciate the tactfulness.:blowkiss:

Truth is, we become immersed in the high-profile cases and may sometimes forget that this is but a small fraction of the criminal trials that are happening out here in real life.

Therefore, I can't make sweeping generalizations based on what is mostly limited to high-profile, tv-camera-events.

Public Defenders who are qualified to handle death penalty and life crime trials are held to high standards.

They are not the same as the limited attorneys who make take a criminal case, here and there, because the real estate business is slow.:)

I'll just refrain from commenting on that. :wink:
 
Question regarding JB and team's access to the crime site? Once LE is finished and the site is cleared will JB and his team have a legal right to enter private property to do their own investigation of the site? Obviously LE has the legal right but JB is a private party.

I was wondering about that myself. Wouldn't it be funny if the legal owner of the property says he doesn't want them there? This is one for our 'legal eagles' to weigh in on and give us their opinion. I guess they could go back to court and try to get the judge to allow them access to private property but I dont know if it would work.

WOW - this type of snag would really get the fur flying wouldn't it? (and you know I am just sort of hoping it does happen, just because........)
 
I must admit I don't know the first thing about lawyer etiquette, but I found JB showing up with his defense team the day after the motion was denied for them to be at the active crime scene unprofessional and irritating. What was more irritating was that they brought along so-called "forensic experts" that tried to have access to the crime scene and gave heated interviews with the press over how angry they were that they weren't allowed to view the crime scene and how unprecedented it was not to allow them to be present to observe the investigation - "Don't you know who I am??? I am an expert in my field!!"

I am wondering if LE or FBI feels the same way. I realize that they were standing where the rest of the media were, but I just found the whole thing intrusive, and now this latest emergency hearing. The whole thing just leaves a sickening feeling in my stomach. No one cares about Caylee. What happened to justice for Caylee? Ugh.

These experts who are behaving this way, along with J Baez and his crew, are simply trying to sway the FUTURE JURORS who may be watching any video or news reports of these events into THINKING that they, J Baez and his crew, SHOULD HAVE been allowed access, ergo possibly getting them a leg up with the future jurors.

Not that I think it will help (cause I don't, since the nation is watching the events and proceedings and likely knows what the judge ruled) but I guarantee you this is why they are acting this way. :doh: ITA it's unprofessional, to say the least, since J Baez, for one, knows darn well he'd never be able to get any such argument/testimony in front of the future jury (Judge S would shut that down IMMEDIATELY in light of his rulings DENYING any such access!)
 

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