Estimating TOD...and other homicide...

[golfmom]

JerseyGirl, what I find equally interesting from that link you provided is the following:

"Hypostasis is the gravitational pooling of blood into the dependent areas of the body. The distributional pooling of the blood is determined by the position of the body following death. Once the blood has pooled, blood clots form preventing the blood from re-pooling elsewhere if the body is moved. Therefore, lividity or discoloration caused by the pooled blood may reveal whether a body has been moved following hypostasis. Because the rate of lividity or hypostasis varies from body to body, it not considered, by most medical examiners, as an accurate methodology for calculating the time of death."

Sounds like there wasn't ANY pooling that occured if they can place the TOD so close to the 911 call.

 

[golfmom]

I found a little bit more information on what occurs to a person around the time of death.

Rigor mortis is also something you should know about. The body is limp until about 5-6 hours after death, then a hardness begins to set in around the jaw area in front of the ear (temporal mandibular joint area). It then spreads throughout the body for a period of time, and then the body goes limp again. The following chart illustrates:

stiffness in jaw -- 6 hours after death

stiffness in upper torso -- 12 hours after death

stiffness in whole body -- 18 hours after death

limpness returns to body -- 36 hours after death

 

[blaize]

I found a little bit more information on what occurs to a person around the time of death.

Rigor mortis is also something you should know about. The body is limp until about 5-6 hours after death, then a hardness begins to set in around the jaw area in front of the ear (temporal mandibular joint area). It then spreads throughout the body for a period of time, and then the body goes limp again. The following chart illustrates:

stiffness in jaw -- 6 hours after death

stiffness in upper torso -- 12 hours after death

stiffness in whole body -- 18 hours after death

limpness returns to body -- 36 hours after death

Hello GM,

your information on Rigor Mortis is backed up on many medical and forensic sites from what I can see and it does go some way to help establish an educated guesstimate of Time Of Death by the coroner or forensic investigators.

 [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][size=2][b]What are the changes that take place in the human body     
 after death which account for the description rigor mortis?[/b][/size][/font]

  [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]      [/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][size=2]15th July 1998[/size][/font]

  [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]    [/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][size=2]Rigor mortis is Latin for "stiffness of death". 
 It is used     medically to describe the stiffness of skeletal muscles 
 that appears soon after death,     usually within the first 4 hours. 
 [/size][/font]

 [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][size=2]The face tends to stiffen before the hands and feet, 
 and     maximal rigor develops in 12 to 48 hours depending 
 on the environmental temperature and     other factors 
 (Krompecher [i]et al[/i], 1983). 
 [/size][/font]

 [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][size=2]For a study of the different rates of     onset of rigor mortis
  in different muscles, see Kobayashi [i]et al[/i] (1996).[/size][/font]

   [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]    [/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][size=2]Rigor mortis sets in as muscle cells run out of the energy substance     
 called ATP (adenosine triphosphate). Even when a person is clinically dead, 
 some cells     within their tissues continue to survive for a while. 
 After the circulation of blood     ceases, surviving muscle cells 
 resort to anaerobic glycolysis but eventually they become     unable
  to make any more ATP. You will probably recall that in 
 healthy muscle cells ATP is     involved in unlocking the cross bridges 
 at the end of the power-stroke and energising them     ready for
  the next contraction. Calcium ions also leak into the compromised
  muscle cells,     moving regulatory proteins away from the 
 molecular cross-bridges between the myofilaments.     
 The myofilaments then become locked in position 
 as a result of these changes, and the     skeletal muscles 
 no longer ‘give’ or stretch when parts of the body are moved.[/size][/font]

   [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]    [/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][size=2]Rigor mortis wears off as the tissues begin to decompose - 
 proteolytic     enzymes in the lysosomes of the muscle cells escape 
 and begin to dissolve the     myofilaments.[/size][/font]

  [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]    [/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][size=2][b]References[/b][/size][/font]

  [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]    [/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][size=2]Kobayashi, M., Takatori, T., Iwadate, K., and Nakajima, M. 
 (1996)     Reconsideration of the sequence of rigor mortis 
 through postmortem changes in adenosine     nucleotides 
 and lactic acid in different rat muscles. 
 [i]Forensic Science Int[/i]ernational,     [b]82, [/b]243-253.[/size][/font]

  [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]    [/font] [font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][size=2]Krompecher, T., Beregerioux, C., Brandt-Casadevall, C., 
 and Gujer, H.R.     (1983) 
 Experimental evaluation of rigor mortis: 
 VI effect of various causes of death 
 on     the evolution of rigor mortis. 
 [i]Forensic Science Int[/i]ernational, [b]22[/b], 1-9.[/size][/font]

Also from the same page:

[font=Arial, Arial, Helvetica][size=2] Rigor mortis  	tends to affect the smallest muscles first, 
 and then spread throughout the  	larger muscles. 
 Typically, rigor is first apparent in the small muscles of  	the eyelids, 
 then the lower jaw and neck, followed by the limbs.[/size][/font]

You can read a lot more information on the page that these was taken from at HERE


blaize

 

[golfmom]

Blaize,

The links and information you provided are incredible. I think that the TOD in this case can be fixed so accurately because professionals were on the scene immediately. Taking into account, all the physical changes that would occur or didn't occur by the time help arrived puts this case in a unique position of being able to so closely name the TOD.

I'm sure Raven has an excuse laid out neatly for the TOD, but I suggest that those close to him research themselves rather than relying on a convicted FELON's (NOT misdemeanor LOL) word.

 

[blaize]

Blaize,

The links and information you provided are incredible. I think that the TOD in this case can be fixed so accurately because professionals were on the scene immediately. Taking into account, all the physical changes that would occur or didn't occur by the time help arrived puts this case in a unique position of being able to so closely name the TOD.

I'm sure Raven has an excuse laid out neatly for the TOD, but I suggest that those close to him research themselves rather than relying on a convicted FELON's (NOT misdemeanor LOL) word.

This is such a sad case GM, further compounded by the fog of suspicion that will not dissipate from around Raven Abaroa because of his silence and inactivity regarding the investigation.

It must be heart wrenching for family members on both sides to realise that a loved one might have had some direct involvement in this tragedy, a conclusion that would be almost impossible to contemplate but unfortunately keeps rearing it's ugly head. Heartbreak all around.

blaize

 

[ewwwinteresting]

In the autopsy report, it lists the body's condition at the time of the autopsy....where is the description of the body at the time of death? Isn't there an ME that is called to the scene and if so, where is that report? There has to be a report by someone regarding the body when they found it! Her body wasn't removed from the residence until the next day (as seen on the media reports) so who examined the body throughout the night and where is that report?

Was the jaw locked at the time paramedics arrived? Oh wait, couldn't be, because Janet wasn't left alone for 6 hours...so, exactly what was her body like at the TOD?

 

[golfmom]

Was the jaw locked at the time paramedics arrived? Oh wait, couldn't be, because Janet wasn't left alone for 6 hours...so, exactly what was her body like at the TOD?

Well, if Raven made a claim that it was locked, then it must have meant that she died around 5:00 p.m. Oh wait, that can't be because the home teachers were at the home after that. Hmmmmm :waitasec: You don't think he'd have lied about that do you?

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I would hope (and suspect) that Raven is bright enough to have not made a claim of rigor mortis or her jaw being stiff when he found her, (because if he is that dense then I don't know why he still hasn't been arrested after all of this time). Since we see that the earliest stage of rigor mortis begins between 4 and 6 hours after death, that would have put Janet's death at somewhere between 4:30 and 6:30 P.M. During that window of time, Raven was still at the house so that claim wouldn't clear him either. If anything, I would think a claim like that would be clear evidence of an out-and-out lie. And as we all know - people don't tend to lie unless they've got something to hide. If Raven did make a statement of that sort, I would hope that LE would be notified ASAP.

Since it appears that the paramedics tried to save her, I would assume that rigor mortis was not apparent. If it was, there is NO WAY that the ME report would place TOD at 10:55 P.M. when first responders saw her shortly after 11:00 P.M. I agree, gm - since LE got the chance to see Janet so shortly after her death, TOD is easier to pin down than if they hadn't arrived at the scene until hours later.

I don't know what Raven might have claimed but I choose to put my faith in the medical examiner as I'm sure LE has and a jury will. The ME is clearly much more qualified to determine TOD than Raven.

 

[golfmom]

I don't know what Raven might have claimed but I choose to put my faith in the medical examiner as I'm sure LE has and a jury will. The ME is clearly much more qualified to determine TOD than Raven.

Do you really think the ME is more qualified to determine TOD than a part-time bike shop boy? :angel:

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Do you really think the ME is more qualified to determine TOD than a part-time bike shop boy? :angel:

Color me naive!

 

[Moxie]

Do you really think the ME is more qualified to determine TOD than a part-time bike shop boy? :angel:

Not in Raven's world. In Raven's world, he is always right, and is either being framed or the continual victim of incompetent people.

So... in Raven's world, a college dropout would know much, much more then a licensed Medical Examiner.

 

[Jenifred]

:laugh:

Not in Raven's world. In Raven's world, he is always right, and is either being framed or the continual victim of incompetent people.

So... in Raven's world, a college dropout would know much, much more then a licensed Medical Examiner.

Especially if he's getting his information from....umm the internet or CSI.

 

[Moxie]

:laugh: Especially if he's getting his information from....umm the internet or CSI.

or his own, brillant, incredible brain!

 

[Jenifred]

or his own, brillant, incredible brain!

You mean the one that never finished college? Or the one that's now working as a part-timer in a BIKE SHOP?

 

[ewwwinteresting]

It would be interesting to hear how raven described the body when he found her. We know he said she was on her knees....how does someone die on their knees. There is no way a body can hold itself up with no blood in it, can it? I don't think raven would claim her jaw was locked because he stated to LE who arrived on scene that his wife was upstairs "hurt"...if he thought her jaw was locked, he would know she was dead!

So, him stating she was on her knees makes me think she either was just killed after raven got home or if he claims her jaw was locked, she was killed before raven left....either way, raven, it's not looking good!

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Good observations, EI. It's amazing how conflicted his stories are considering the fact that he hardly says anything, huh? Can you imagine what might come out if he'd give a statement here and there?

My thought is this ... if there was some statement from Raven about any part of Janet's body being stiff when he found her then her body should have been at least cool to the touch because she would have been gone for a minimum of four hours at that point. If her body was cool to the touch, he would have known that she had already passed (and like you said - then why state that she's upstairs hurt?), and the ME would not have been able to list to TOD as 10:55 P.M.

 

[ewwwinteresting]

Good observations, EI. It's amazing how conflicted his stories are considering the fact that he hardly says anything, huh? Can you imagine what might come out if he'd give a statement here and there?

My thought is this ... if there was some statement from Raven about any part of Janet's body being stiff when he found her then her body should have been at least cool to the touch because she would have been gone for a minimum of four hours at that point. If her body was cool to the touch, he would have known that she had already passed (and like you said - then why state that she's upstairs hurt?), and the ME would not have been able to list to TOD as 10:55 P.M.

Exactly! That autopsy report isn't making raven look innocent in the least little bit....I wonder how much the report that gave the information to arrive at the TOD compares to any of raven's statments.

Here's the question of the month...why in the hell haven't they arrested raven yet?

 

[golfmom]

Here's the question of the month...why in the hell haven't they arrested raven yet?

North Carolina has strict sentencing guidelines setting minimum and maximum penalties for all charges, and which removes much of a judge's discretion in sentencing. This shifts the responsibility of obtaining appropriate sentences to the prosecutors who must do so by placing appropriate charges and negotiating appropriate pleas.

 

[radar]

Ladies, lighten up. Is this info about the stiffness of the body hearsay or fact?What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

 

[golfmom]

Ladies, lighten up. Is this info about the stiffness of the body hearsay or fact?What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

Radar, you are certainly entitled to your own opinion.

I wouldn't make a good juror on this particular case. I wouldn't be able to discount the numerous lies I've uncovered. I wouldnt be able to discount the stories people have shared with me.

Thankfully no one is asking me to take an oath, so I am free to believe he's guilty and will be proven guilty in a court of law and by a jury of his peers.