Extradition

[otto]

Has America asked for the extradition of Julian Assange? Sweden is currently asking for his extradition to stand trial on rape charges, I'm not aware that the US has made any attempt to extradite him.

Putin won't give up Snowden regardless of what happens with Amanda Knox.

No one has asked that Amanda Knox be extradited. Everyone seems to be quite satisfied with Knox trapped in her own country. Finally, Sollecito has the same circumstances, trapped in Italy. Knox expressed concern for him after the verdict, most likely because she knew that his Dominican Republic holiday trips had come to an abrupt end. She was prevented from those trips after her release from prison. They had completely different circumstances due to her second conviction. Now, they're in the same situation.

This isn't about Putin, politicians, America, Sweden, Julian Assange, or Snowden, and Russia. This isn't about Britain, Italy, the US or the Ivory Coast. This is about Meredith Kercher who went home one evening, after having dinner and watching a movie with friends. Sometimes between 9PM and midnight, she was murdered. Her body was found under questionable circumstances (to say the least), and three people have been convicted of her murder.

Until Knox is extradited, no one can comment. Petitions to make a legal ruling that Amanda Knox cannot be extradited for murder, or that the treaties between the US and Italy should be disrespected for a convicted murder, seem highly irregular. Does the President of the Unites States want to overlook extradition treaties to excuse one convicted murderer? How do the rest of the people in the United States feel about that? If their child was murdered abroad by a US citizen, would they agree to that person avoiding consequences because of US citizenship?

What about the guy from Alabama that murdered his bride during a scuba diving trip to Australia. Should he be protected from extradition to Australia? He didn't fight extradition. He was convicted and served a couple of years in prison before he was released. He went home and found a new bride. Alabama tried to convict him again, but that was double jeopardy, so the Alabama trial was dismissed.

Extradition treaties seems to be that if someone has been arrested for murder by another country, and that person is a US citizen living in the US, that person can/will be extradited. If someone has been convicted outside of the country, has faced trial in that country and has served a sentence, then that person cannot be tried a second time in the United States (double jeopardy). If someone has been convicted outside of the country and has not served a sentence, and has not served a sentence in the US, then that person should be extradited to serve a sentence (or make arrangements near home) as part of the extradition treaties with Italy.

 

[Cappuccino]

I know all that. I was responding to the poster above me who seems to think the Knox case will have some impact on the cases of Assange and Snowden. It won't. Assange is facing extradition proceedings from Sweden, and Russia will be motivated by Russian self interest and Russian self interest only. Putin doesn't give a stuff what happens with Amanda Knox.

 

[otto]

I know all that. I was responding to the poster above me who seems to think the Knox case will have some impact on the cases of Assange and Snowden. It won't. Assange is facing extradition proceedings from Sweden, and Russia will be motivated by Russian self interest and Russian self interest only. Putin doesn't give a stuff what happens with Amanda Knox.

I agree ... political refugees and Knox have nothing in common. Her murder conviction has nothing to do with politics.

 

[Cappuccino]

I agree ... political refugees and Knox have nothing in common. Her murder conviction has nothing to do with politics.

Julian Assange is wanted in Sweden for rape, he is not a political refugee. Snowden probably is, but anybody who thinks Russia is somehow more likely to extradite him if Amanda is extradited is dreaming. The Knox case will have no effect either way on what happens to Edward Snowden.

 

[otto]

Julian Assange is wanted in Sweden for rape, he is not a political refugee. Snowden probably is, but anybody who thinks Russia is somehow more likely to extradite him if Amanda is extradited is dreaming. The Knox case will have no effect either way on what happens to Edward Snowden.

Julian Assange (WikiLeaks) is a political refugee that released classified information. Snowden did the same. I'm sure that all sorts of additional charges will be assigned to both of them until they are captured, and then the extra charges will be dropped.

Knox is in a world with people like David Gabriel "Gabe" Watson, the man that was extradited for murder to Australia. She should not confuse herself with outspoken political radicals. Amanda Knox is a convicted murder, not a person speaking out about human rights.

 

[Cappuccino]

Julian Assange is not a political refugee, he is not the subject of any extradition proceedings from the US or in any way connected to his wikileaks activities. He is wanted in Sweden on two charges of rape, and that's all he is wanted for. They are not "additional charges", that is what he is wanted for.

Where on earth has Amanda "confused herself" with Snowden or any other political radical? That's pure fabrication, she's never said any such thing. Its posters in here who raised the subject of Snowden, not Amanda.

 

[otto]

The man behind WikiLeaks is a political refugee. That's a fact. It doesn't matter what charges are on the books today, the minute that he is detained, he will suffer the wrath for having radical political views and the WikiLeaks scandal.

I think we all agree that Amanda Knox is not a political radical releasing inside information about human rights violations to the world. Assange and Snowden did that. Knox is on the level of Gabe Watson, who murdered his wife in Australia and who was extradited and imprisoned abroad for murder.

I don't think that Ms Knox has raised any concerns about extradition here, but the bottom line is that her extradition will follow a Supreme Court ruling, and arguments about Snowden and other political radicals don't apply.

 

[Cappuccino]

The man behind WikiLeaks is a political refugee. That's a fact. It doesn't matter what charges are on the books today, the minute that he is detained, he will suffer the wrath for having radical political views and the WikiLeaks scandal.

No evidence for that at all. Sweden wants his extradition to stand trial for rape, they are not interested in wikileaks. Unless you have evidence to the contrary that sounds like a conspiracy theory.

don't think that Ms Knox has raised anything here, but the bottom line is that her extradition will follow a Supreme Court ruling, and arguments about Snowden and other political radicals don't apply.

Then I think Amanda Knox's detractors should stop making them. Its not those who see Amanda as innocent who are raising Snowden, its those who want her extradited. Their argument seems to be that extraditing Amanda to Italy will somehow prompt Russia to feel more amenable to extradite Snowden.

Those people are dreaming, Russia couldn't care less either way. Their decision will be taken with Russian self interest in mind only, Knox is irrelevant to that case.

 

[Krustix]

@Cuppucino:

Yes, the US hasn't filed for Assange's extradition, if you want to be technical. And he's not wanted in Sweden for rape - there's no charge of rape or sexual offences against him in Sweden. They want him for questioning with regards to sexual offences.

My point was about the US state's public image and how it may play into "getting hold" of Assange and Snowden. The US has for some time had a Grand Jury convened against Assange - that they want him is clear.

And, I used an auxiliary to show I am not making definitive statements: "might be willing to extradite Knox".

It's clear to anyone reading these threads that we're all supposing and theorising, so that's mine.

 

[Cappuccino]

Yes, the US hasn't filed for Assange's extradition, if you want to be technical.

No, I want to be factual. The US hasn't filed any extradition request for Assange, Sweden has. As you said, for questioning in regard to sexual offenses in their country, nothing to do with the US or wikileaks. I wasn't born yesterday, I'm sure the US would love to get hold of him at some stage, but the fact remains - nobody is going to extradite Assange to the US before they even request it. You could deport the entire population of Seattle to Italy and it won't change that. So Knox is irrelevant to that case.

My point was about the US state's public image and how it may play into "getting hold" of Assange and Snowden.

It will never play into your chances of getting hold of Snowden. Ever. Some way down the line it may persuade Sweden, (if they ever get hold of him themselves), to hand over Assange but former KGB chief Vladimir Putin is not handing over Snowden while his activities are damaging relations between the US and the EU. Again you could deport the entire population of Seattle without changing that.

 

[Krustix]

Cappucino: "No, I want to be factual."

Well, that's difficult in a thread talking about a hypothetical extradition of a person whose guilty verdict still needs to be confirmed.

 

[Cappuccino]

Not really. The US hasn't asked for Assange's extradition and Russia is pursuing an agenda all of its own which will not be affected by Amanda Knox. Those are the facts as they stand.

 

[Krustix]

Not really. The US hasn't asked for Assange's extradition and Russia is pursuing an agenda all of its own which will not be affected by Amanda Knox. Those are the facts as they stand.

And neither has Italy asked for Knox's extradition. So, as I said, all discussion here is hypothetical. Another fact.

 

[Myvice]

I think what the supporters of the [modsnip] Italian clique fear the most is that impartial and rational eyes will take a close look at this outrageous fabricated case.

This moment will come sooner or later. Nencini will have to write some explanation and the free media will tear it apart.
If the Italians ask for extradition their farce of a case will get into spot light once again - the satanic rituals, the sex games, the mortal fights over feces in the loo. The ugly will get some air time, too - the multiple lies of the cops and prosecutors, destroying of evidence, coercive and illegal interrogations, withholding exculpatory evidence, Stefanoni lying repeatedly in the courtroom, evidence conjured out of thin air after the arrests, evidence that conveniently get destroyed preventing any independent testing.

Considering that the US actually works in conjunction with the Italian courts in some cases I wonder how they will handle this arrest.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/02/11/italy-us-crack-down-on-mafia-drug-smuggling/?intcmp=latestnews

Will the Senator that is monitoring AK's case suggest that none of these seven be tried in Italy's [modsnip] courts?

 

[Salem]

:modstop:


This thread is for discussing the extradition process. Not rehashing the evidence. Stay on Topic, please.

Salem

 

[BritsKate]

I think what the supporters of the [modsnip] Italian clique fear the most is that impartial and rational eyes will take a close look at this outrageous fabricated case.

This moment will come sooner or later. Nencini will have to write some explanation and the free media will tear it apart.
If the Italians ask for extradition their farce of a case will get into spot light once again - the satanic rituals, the sex games, the mortal fights over feces in the loo. The ugly will get some air time, too - the multiple lies of the cops and prosecutors, destroying of evidence, coercive and illegal interrogations, withholding exculpatory evidence, Stefanoni lying repeatedly in the courtroom, evidence conjured out of thin air after the arrests, evidence that conveniently get destroyed preventing any independent testing.

In terms of extradition the ONLY thing that needs to be proven to US authorities is reasonable proof an extraditable crime has been committed by the party in question. A conviction affirmed by the highest court in Italy is enough, in and of itself.

The American media is sure to rail on about corruption and injustice, if its anything like it was when I lived there, but both governments will likely simply follow the black and white of the treaties. Like most other countries, Italy has its own set of checks and balances responsible for their law enforcement, judiciary, criminal procedure, etc. Further, Italy also has the EU courts to remedy matters should the need arise (as in human rights violations, freedom of movement, taxation, etc.) Just as a European government would likely not intercede in America's criminal justice system, it too is unlikely America will for Amanda Knox, in my opinion. (The death penalty, of course, is a separate issue and was included in the extradition treaty between Italy and America.)

An easy way to describe the difference in courts is this: Cassation is a lot like the Supreme Court of a state while EU courts are similar to SCOTUS - they hear mainly cases dealing with Union law and are unlikely to overturn a national verdict unless seriously egregious errors were committed (like Miranda v. Arizona).

 

[otto]

It seems that Ted Simon has managed to create confusion around extradition, going so far as to give the impression that there will be a new trial where the evidence will be re-evaluated by a US court. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

 

[Amber29]

In terms of extradition the ONLY thing that needs to be proven to US authorities is reasonable proof an extraditable crime has been committed by the party in question. A conviction affirmed by the highest court in Italy is enough, in and of itself.

The American media is sure to rail on about corruption and injustice, if its anything like it was when I lived there, but both governments will likely simply follow the black and white of the treaties. Like most other countries, Italy has its own set of checks and balances responsible for their law enforcement, judiciary, criminal procedure, etc. Further, Italy also has the EU courts to remedy matters should the need arise (as in human rights violations, freedom of movement, taxation, etc.) Just as a European government would likely not intercede in America's criminal justice system, it too is unlikely America will for Amanda Knox, in my opinion. (The death penalty, of course, is a separate issue and was included in the extradition treaty between Italy and America.)

An easy way to describe the difference in courts is this: Cassation is a lot like the Supreme Court of a state while EU courts are similar to SCOTUS - they hear mainly cases dealing with Union law and are unlikely to overturn a national verdict unless seriously egregious errors were committed (like Miranda v. Arizona).

Thanks BritsKate your posts are always well written and very informative!