I am SOOOOO loving your post baker!~:dance:Wouldn't that be nice if she got a nice fat bill from the airlines for the distruptionI've been with Amraann out and about before with her Autistic son, he was very well behaved the whole time. I agree with another poster that these children exhibited a learned behavior.
That being said, I was flying one time with a friend, and there was a rotten little 4-5 year old sitting in front of us. Throwing crap over the seat at us, dropping stuff on our food tray, just a rotten little *advertiser censored* of a kid. I asked the mom if she could please at least turn him around so we could enjoy our meal. The mom was a , guess I know where the kid got his attitude from, and refused to do anything about it. my friend gets motion sick and was trying her best to keep her stomach in check, she got up and leaned over to talk to the mom, and whoopsie....she barfed all over the woman:clap: They moved that woman and the rotten *advertiser censored* kid up to the front of the plane. My friend politely wiped her mouth and sat in her seat, and said "oh man I feel so much better now!" LMAO, I need to fly with her more often.
Family Stranded at Airport After Being Kicked Off Plane
- Thread starter anthrobones
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BarnGoddess
Former Member
Spazkat, I am going to be working with several autistic children next week. There will also be one or two with cerebal palsy as well. This will be my first year as a volunteer actually working with these children. We have donated one of our horses for several years in the Hideaway at Cameron Lane project. Two of our horses know when they have a "special passenger" aboard and are requested each year. I do know a couple of the autistic kids and I've never noticed either of them out of control at any time. One is severly affected and quite withdrawn. I understand his experience last year was a breakthrough. I will be interested to see how he responds this year.
I also have been on those flights from Hell on occasion. I really don't think the kid who kept up kicking my seat from behind was anything but the spoiled spawn of a demanding beotch of a mother. She actually laughed when the little b**tard told me I could go to He**. Fortunately the male attendant overheard it and moved them all the way back to the rear in the worst seats you could be in.
I may call on you and Amraan for answers to questions I may have as I learn to work with these kids.
Trino
Well-Known Member
Excuse me, but I believe I am treating people with respect. (Your comment was disrespectful.)
I TOLERATE people who are different. As I said, it's just a plane ride. My husband is a business traveler - very frequent flier. Often I accompany him. As I said, we don't complain.
4eyedbuzzard
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There are extremely wide differences in behavior within the spectrum of Autism. Until I hear more, I would tend to side with the Airline and the passenger (who called it the flight from hell). And perhaps the best thing for both the other passengers AND the child was not to be boarded on the next flight. But as I was not personally there I really can't say. I've also run into people who have no tolerance for anything that disrupts their own little world slightly, and unfortunately there are many people who are extremely intolerant of the disabled, especially children.
I also think we should allow that perhaps this child/children and the mother were caught at their worst. For whatever reason here is a mother flying her four children, two of them special needs kids, cross country with no extra money. I doubt any of the people on that flight that thought they had a bad day would trade places with that woman for a minute.
I'm not saying that the airline necessarily made the wrong decision. But it's really easy to sit here behind a keyboard espousing ideas on how we would have better handled these children and the situation without knowing what these childrens disabilities and needs are.
A little more compassion in the tone of some of the posts here might be nice, that's all.
I also think we should allow that perhaps this child/children and the mother were caught at their worst. For whatever reason here is a mother flying her four children, two of them special needs kids, cross country with no extra money. I doubt any of the people on that flight that thought they had a bad day would trade places with that woman for a minute.
I'm not saying that the airline necessarily made the wrong decision. But it's really easy to sit here behind a keyboard espousing ideas on how we would have better handled these children and the situation without knowing what these childrens disabilities and needs are.
A little more compassion in the tone of some of the posts here might be nice, that's all.
BG, that is a cool thing for you to do. I hope you and your horses enjoy the experience.:blowkiss:
I find it interesting that they didn't have any problems on the next flight they took which was 3 hours.
Some people think any flight with children on it is "the flight from hell". Wah. LOL I'd like to hear more too. Why aren't these things ever caught on video?!
I also beg to disagree with whomever said that screaming is a learned behavior w/autistic children. Maybe in some, but not all, and it also depends on their age. IMO anyway.
Some people think any flight with children on it is "the flight from hell". Wah. LOL I'd like to hear more too. Why aren't these things ever caught on video?!
I also beg to disagree with whomever said that screaming is a learned behavior w/autistic children. Maybe in some, but not all, and it also depends on their age. IMO anyway.
Maybe she decided to control the kids after getting kicked off of the first flight? Maybe they were so tired from all the running around they did on the first flight? What ever the problem was, she herself admitted that the kids were not staying in their seats and that they were loud.
Julessleuther
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I agree Taximom. I have worked extensively with autistic and disabled children, and it is NOT a learned behavior. These children cannot always help it, they lack the knowledge of self control every second of every day. Sometimes it is just a way for them to communicate, and sometimes it is out of frustration. Whatever happened to people having sympathy for those families, instead of worrying just about themselves. I feel bad for that family--maybe it took them two years to save the money for this trip, maybe they were going to see family they haven't seen in years...whatever. Everyone has a story, and there is always more to the story than what we hear in the media, and maybe if people had more compassion for others, there would be so many less problems in the world.
BarnGoddess
Former Member
I disagree. I was on a flight with a crying baby. I tolerated it. Didn't like it, but it was a baby. I was also on a flight to Miami with a cold. I thought I'd die because my ears got severly and painfully stuffed on the long decent over the Everglades. If I were a baby, I'd have been screaming with the pain. Worst flight ever. I took my oldest as a 3 year old on a flight and the little, well dressed gentleman, was very well behaved and absolutely no problem to anyone. He was so thrilled just being on a plane and looking out the window the entire flight. I also remember the cutest little girl coming down the aisle to the bathroom with her mom, saying hello to everyone. She was showing off the "wings" the attendant had given her. Just adorable.
bamabeauty
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I stayed with an autistic young man in his 20's. We had good days and then there were days that we had to leave stores because of screaming and behavior problems . For the most part people were very understanding. My heart breaks for this mom. I watch Airline alot and they kick disruptive drunks of flights sober them up and put them on the next flight. Why couldn't they have just put this mother on the next flight?
I have to say that when I have taken care of and observed children with autism, if they have lost "control" in a situation given the right tools, they can easily and quickly regain it. I have never, ever had any prolonged issues with any child.
I've seen more tantrums and acting out - and this is truely just being bratty!! from normal children. I have a feeling that the mom and pregnant sister were overwhelmed with the 4 children on a plane and were just letting them "run wild". i am on vacation right now and i tell you... people are RUDE when traveling and RUDE when on vacation. we had a child talking on the beach to my little 7 year old in ways (he was probably five) that I have never seen. we usually vacation on beaches in the carribean and usually it is children from other countries (the places we go are usually heavily populated by families from Spain, France, England, and other areas of Europe) and I am telling you - those children would NEVER act like these children here in this resort town behave!! i think it is a symptom of our culture here in america... think about it we have rude parents who are rude adults when they travel (why do you hate to fly?) who in turn, have rude and unrurely children. I am not saying that this is everyone... but i am saying that the ones out there make an impression and do make travel in america less enjoyable for the rest of us.
I've seen more tantrums and acting out - and this is truely just being bratty!! from normal children. I have a feeling that the mom and pregnant sister were overwhelmed with the 4 children on a plane and were just letting them "run wild". i am on vacation right now and i tell you... people are RUDE when traveling and RUDE when on vacation. we had a child talking on the beach to my little 7 year old in ways (he was probably five) that I have never seen. we usually vacation on beaches in the carribean and usually it is children from other countries (the places we go are usually heavily populated by families from Spain, France, England, and other areas of Europe) and I am telling you - those children would NEVER act like these children here in this resort town behave!! i think it is a symptom of our culture here in america... think about it we have rude parents who are rude adults when they travel (why do you hate to fly?) who in turn, have rude and unrurely children. I am not saying that this is everyone... but i am saying that the ones out there make an impression and do make travel in america less enjoyable for the rest of us.
I think they should kick off disruptive drunks as well.
Great post Pedi!:clap::clap::clap:
Maybe she decided to control the kids after getting kicked off of the first flight? Maybe they were so tired from all the running around they did on the first flight? What ever the problem was, she herself admitted that the kids were not staying in their seats and that they were loud.
I think any time an airline does this they should refund their money.
I don't know how pregnant the sister was, but they were outnumbered with just 2 adults since 2 of the children were disabled!
After watching the video I also wonder if it was the disabled children that were acting up. There seemed to be two very young typical toddler boys (?) that were more active than the 10 yr old autistic boy and the dd with CP.
From experience I can tell you the two typical kids probably were acting out because the two adults in this situation probably had to devote a good deal of time to their disabled family members.
I don't think I will ever fly anywhere ever again!
I totally understand!! i think parents are horrified when their babies cry close quarters, in places such as airplaces, as well.
i have an embarrassing story to tell. i have always prouded myself on how well my children behave on planes, etc. My daughter, who was six at the time, on the way home, starting crying very loudly when we started upon descent last year from our flight. i was horrified. Now, my daughter, when she is sleeping, is very hard to talk to and "rationalize" with... so when she started crying loudly and fussing in her sleep and I was having a hard time with her, i was horrified. i was very upset with her and told her so, VERY harshly. When she was halfway awake (because for a while she didn't even wake up, just kept crying and squaling) she told me her ear hurt. I had figured it was a pressure change problem, as we were descending, so I was like... chew, drink, swallow. She said her ears were still bothering her, and she continued to cry loudly. We had also been on a plane all day.
Well, I feel, to this day like the WORST mom in the world. She had an outer ear infection which can make the ear feel very full and painful. That night I saw it. I should have known, on the plane, when she was telling me what was going on, what was probably wrong. But I was so... panicked... at her crying and squaling on this crowded plane in front of all these people and disturbing them that I didn't even halfway listen to her. Chewing, etc is NOT going to make that feel better, and an outer ear infection on an airplane and with pressure changes is HORRIBLY painful. I still feel bad about it... the airline stewardesses were really nice and were coming over and talking to her nicely and trying to make her feel nice too while she was back there with me and i was trying to calm her (they were telling me it was OK, not to worry about her crying...) and she was a 6 year old girl.
i have to say that i learned my lesson!! just typing it, i feel guilt!
my one year old sat there and looked at her the whole time. he's never had a problem.
stuff just HAPPENS!
XcomSquaddie
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No. Everyone has an expectation of a trouble-free flight. No one has a "right" to anything in life.
I agree 100% although I would add that your statements apply to typical children as well.
I agree with that as well.
To an extent, yes. That's the hope of mainstreaming, that they will pick-up on the typical kids' social skills.
You are talking about different behaviors. Screaming or throwing a tantrum is entirely controllable by both parent and child, autistic or not. However a tantrum is 100% different from stimming. Stimming is not learned, often cannot be controlled and is often hard to redirect. And environmental overstimulation often leads to stimming.
HOW??? You can't tell if a typical child (or some adults) are going to be okay in a situation, let alone an autistic child.
And where exactly was she supposed to go?
In a classroom environment. However the more unfamiliar the situation, the more difficult it will be to maintain that behavior.
You are right about it being wrong to use autism as a "Get-Out-of-Responsibility" card.
***
Autism or not, disabled or not, if the children were uncontrolled the airline had a right to remove them from the plane. While I am rather unconcerned about the noise issues, the uncontrolled movements around the aircraft present a definite safety issue. That alone is reason enough to get them off.
As far as the airline refunding their money, I think they should do that simply as a PR move. The cost to the airline is minimal and it makes them look good. However I do not think they are obligated to do so.
Screw that.
Edit: The same can be said for this family that was kicked off....get over it.
I am going to slightly wade in here....
First off I would not take Richie on a plane without first making sure he was OK with that notion and also having some heavy sedative available if he would not be and/or make an alternate travel plan.
I would well in advance inform the Airline of my circumstances and be very clear that all personal on the flight knew what was going on. People are much more tolerant and understanding when they are informed.
From the initial brief article in the first post ... it was not my impression that the "disabled" children were the problem.
I am not sure where exactly I stand on this..
On one hand over my dead body would my children be permitted to act like beasts in public. (like wandering the plane, leaning over seats etc)
On the other some times toddlers just melt down... most parents can get that under control rather quickly and people intolerant of children at all should get over themselves and not take public transportation.
Being a customer service based industry I am bothered that airline personal have become a little to high handed for my taste..
Like the other case recently with the autistic toddler.. IMO the stewardess antagonized that situation.
I find that airlines seem to be a little to big for their britches lately and justify it by claiming every little thing is a threat.
SPARE ME PLEASE, a couple of unruly toddlers is annoying at best but a threat to the safety of other passengers as the airlines statement implies?
Give me a freakin break please!
Its not like these toddlers were running amok in the cockpit!
I do not think the mom's should have let them roam the plane AT ALL.
These are probably the same mom's who let their kids run all over any restaurant they visit.
Which truly is dangerous as wait staff is often carrying heavy trays with HOT food.
My impression is that these mothers are lackadaisical and then felt like they could claim they were treated badly because they had disabled children.
Again I did not get from the article that the disabled children were the issue here... so to use that excuse is sickening to me.
I can't find the airline staff without fault either..
The fact is parents with children will fly and sometimes children are not quiet little angel's so there needs to be some tolerance of that.
Like they should have said after the second warning .... "if you cannot calm them down then we will have no choice but to ground you in Phoenix"
Leaving them stranded was WRONG. They paid for a service.
As I said above I also think the airline is wrong for trying to claim that a couple of unruly toddlers cause some threat.
In my experience Stewardess's are more often then not RUDE to those with children. I have thought this LOOOONG before 9/11.
Like I said my children were never permitted to act like that on a plane.
BUT I always noticed the eye roll when I would board a plane with two small children and the b*tchyness of the stewardess before she ever knew if my children where beasts.
These same stewardess's had no problem putting on their "Barbie Smiles" and being oh so friendly to the male businessmen on board.
9/11 has just given them a free pass to be outright rude to those with children.
Bottom line if you are a customer service based business you need to try to treat ALL customers kindly. IF on occasion you come across someone who is really unreasonable or a risk then by all means put a stop to that.
But please do not tell me something DUMB A$$ like a toddler is a threat to security.
At least be honest and say the mother let the child act like a beast and we at SouthWest do not want our regular business customers to have to endure that.
First off I would not take Richie on a plane without first making sure he was OK with that notion and also having some heavy sedative available if he would not be and/or make an alternate travel plan.
I would well in advance inform the Airline of my circumstances and be very clear that all personal on the flight knew what was going on. People are much more tolerant and understanding when they are informed.
From the initial brief article in the first post ... it was not my impression that the "disabled" children were the problem.
I am not sure where exactly I stand on this..
On one hand over my dead body would my children be permitted to act like beasts in public. (like wandering the plane, leaning over seats etc)
On the other some times toddlers just melt down... most parents can get that under control rather quickly and people intolerant of children at all should get over themselves and not take public transportation.
Being a customer service based industry I am bothered that airline personal have become a little to high handed for my taste..
Like the other case recently with the autistic toddler.. IMO the stewardess antagonized that situation.
I find that airlines seem to be a little to big for their britches lately and justify it by claiming every little thing is a threat.
SPARE ME PLEASE, a couple of unruly toddlers is annoying at best but a threat to the safety of other passengers as the airlines statement implies?
Give me a freakin break please!
Its not like these toddlers were running amok in the cockpit!
I do not think the mom's should have let them roam the plane AT ALL.
These are probably the same mom's who let their kids run all over any restaurant they visit.
Which truly is dangerous as wait staff is often carrying heavy trays with HOT food.
My impression is that these mothers are lackadaisical and then felt like they could claim they were treated badly because they had disabled children.
Again I did not get from the article that the disabled children were the issue here... so to use that excuse is sickening to me.
I can't find the airline staff without fault either..
The fact is parents with children will fly and sometimes children are not quiet little angel's so there needs to be some tolerance of that.
Like they should have said after the second warning .... "if you cannot calm them down then we will have no choice but to ground you in Phoenix"
Leaving them stranded was WRONG. They paid for a service.
As I said above I also think the airline is wrong for trying to claim that a couple of unruly toddlers cause some threat.
In my experience Stewardess's are more often then not RUDE to those with children. I have thought this LOOOONG before 9/11.
Like I said my children were never permitted to act like that on a plane.
BUT I always noticed the eye roll when I would board a plane with two small children and the b*tchyness of the stewardess before she ever knew if my children where beasts.
These same stewardess's had no problem putting on their "Barbie Smiles" and being oh so friendly to the male businessmen on board.
9/11 has just given them a free pass to be outright rude to those with children.
Bottom line if you are a customer service based business you need to try to treat ALL customers kindly. IF on occasion you come across someone who is really unreasonable or a risk then by all means put a stop to that.
But please do not tell me something DUMB A$$ like a toddler is a threat to security.
At least be honest and say the mother let the child act like a beast and we at SouthWest do not want our regular business customers to have to endure that.