Final Autopsy and Toxicology Report

Hi, yes, I am medically trained. I'm in my last year of medical school and I'm interested in pursuing a career in pathology.

Erythema is not usually consistent with any kind of assault, it occurs in inflammatory processes or infections for the most part. If there was trauma you would've seen bruising - blood in the skin.

The subject of strangulation is a very delicate one, as there can be no external markings, but there could be internal markings such as contusion hemorrhage in the muscles of the neck, fractured hyoid bone or signs of injury to the laryngeal cartilages.

Focal erythema of the thyroid, however, not a sign of strangulation.

Thanks for sharing your expertise. I hope you don't mind another question or two directed toward you? I find it curious that there are no contusions or lacerations anywhere given the precarious climb over the pipes and sharp angles of the hatch rim into a small opening on the tank. Possible, but not probable that there is not one mark on her. The sheer absence of anything seems off to me, not to mention no trail of her was detected by SAR dogs. I feel there is just as much a lack of compelling evidence to rule this an accident as there is to rule out homicide.

Signs of strangulation would be more obvious as would any sort of rape trauma, as you point out. Would it be so easy to assign cause of death as drowning if EL had been asphyxiated somehow prior to immersion in tank?

In comparison, in an unsolved similar case near my home the autopsy revealed the girl was asphyxiated to some degree prior to immersion in a bathtub, so death ruled a homicide though also no signs of trauma. They don't even know if she was alive or not before she ended up in the tub. How in the world, then, was it concluded EL was alive when she entered the tank and asphyxiated by water? Generally, it seems extremely difficult to prove drowning as cause of death. For anyone not familiar, here is a reference; not the most authoritative out there but a decent summary.

http://forensicpathologyonline.com/E-Book/asphyxia/drowning

Just curious, if the video did not exist would the autopsy might have been more comprehensive and the manner of death ruled undetermined? From a medical or scientific standpoint, do you think that there is enough in this report to set this apart unequivocally as an accident? To me, Given there is no clear overwhelming physical evidence reported supporting that EL was alive when she went into the tank it seems professionally questionable to rule this death anything other than undetermined.
 
As for the particles in the water -- I doubt that there is anything unusual there, especially when a foreign object was put into the tank. At any rate, considering her toxicology was clean, this seems to have no bearing on her death.

Montjoy,

I thought of that too and it is most likely the case it was a sediment of some sort. My other thought was that the was a synthetic fiber in her clothes disintegrating based on chemical changes and water logging. However, why are no particles found stuck in her hair? It is probably inconsequential but why bother even noting it if not considered unusual?
 
@conductor71 there were wounds on both knees.

That is incorrect. There was a scar on one knee and an abrasion on the other. Neither indicates a wound received immediately before her death (a scar could be years old). There were no signs of trauma to the body. [modsnip]
 
Montjoy,

I thought of that too and it is most likely the case it was a sediment of some sort. My other thought was that the was a synthetic fiber in her clothes disintegrating based on chemical changes and water logging. However, why are no particles found stuck in her hair? It is probably inconsequential but why bother even noting it if not considered unusual?

Why assume that they would be stuck in her hair?

And as for why note it -- it's because the report attempts to be exhaustive. Why mention that she has no tattoos? Same reason.
 
That is incorrect. There was a scar on one knee and an abrasion on the other. Neither indicates a wound received immediately before her death.

That is my reading of the autopsy as well.

Why assume that they would be stuck in her hair?

And as for why note it -- it's because the report attempts to be exhaustive. Why mention that she has no tattoos? Same reason.

True, it is an assumption, and as I said likely inconsequential. It just stands to reason that a sediment described as sand like or flecked that is tacky enough to be found in all her clothing despite it being "sopping wet" and that accumulates on a drying mat would also stick in wet hair.

I think that exhaustive means that when you note a substance as "unknown material" you test it to see what it might be. Noting tattoos aids in body identification and is standard; I don't really see that as an example of being exhaustive. For example, tissue samples were ordered including a fingernail kit. Did you see the results anywhere in the report? Contrast this report by skimming Whitney Houston's 42 page autopsy, also completed by the LA coroner's office; do you still consider EL's report as exhaustive? Link to download a PDF here:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/autopsy/whitney-houston-autopsy-report-095671

Given that, the autopsy is a masterpiece compared to the LAPD report at the scene. The tanks were far from described with attention to detail. The tank was 1/2 or 3/4 full? Well is that 4 ft or 6 ft? That makes a pretty big difference when the person could stand a full foot and a half over the water level in the tank.
 
Thanks for sharing your expertise. I hope you don't mind another question or two directed toward you? I find it curious that there are no contusions or lacerations anywhere given the precarious climb over the pipes and sharp angles of the hatch rim into a small opening on the tank. Possible, but not probable that there is not one mark on her. The sheer absence of anything seems off to me, not to mention no trail of her was detected by SAR dogs. I feel there is just as much a lack of compelling evidence to rule this an accident as there is to rule out homicide.

Signs of strangulation would be more obvious as would any sort of rape trauma, as you point out. Would it be so easy to assign cause of death as drowning if EL had been asphyxiated somehow prior to immersion in tank?

In comparison, in an unsolved similar case near my home the autopsy revealed the girl was asphyxiated to some degree prior to immersion in a bathtub, so death ruled a homicide though also no signs of trauma. They don't even know if she was alive or not before she ended up in the tub. How in the world, then, was it concluded EL was alive when she entered the tank and asphyxiated by water? Generally, it seems extremely difficult to prove drowning as cause of death. For anyone not familiar, here is a reference; not the most authoritative out there but a decent summary.

http://forensicpathologyonline.com/E-Book/asphyxia/drowning

Just curious, if the video did not exist would the autopsy might have been more comprehensive and the manner of death ruled undetermined? From a medical or scientific standpoint, do you think that there is enough in this report to set this apart unequivocally as an accident? To me, Given there is no clear overwhelming physical evidence reported supporting that EL was alive when she went into the tank it seems professionally questionable to rule this death anything other than undetermined.



Hi there! I will be happy to answer any questions. Please keep in mind that I am still learning and my clinical experience is somewhat limited given the fact that I have only seen only a handful of autopsies of bodies which were recovered from water.

Okay, first of all, when a body is recovered from water there are some questions that have to be answered by the autopsy findings. One of them and the most important is: Did death occur prior to or after entry into the water?

If the death occurred prior to submersion then the autopsy would reveal no water in lungs, lungs would not be hyper inflated and there would be signs of some other cause of death: natural, toxicological or traumatic.

If the death occurred after submersion you would have quite a few indicatives that would suggest it. One of them is the presence of secretions and foam in the respiratory tract, they are a mix of water, mucus and surfactant from the lungs that has been whipped up by respiratory efforts. This is a vital phenomenon that indicates the victim was alive at the time of submersion. While the foam disappears after a week from the moment of submersion, the secretions linger around for quite a while. This is why the medical examiner found scant secretions in Elisa's respiratory tract. Such secretions could also be found in case of head injury, heart failure or drug overdose but there are no indicatives that Elisa could have sustained neither of these.

Another sign is the presence of water in the lungs. If the body has been found in water and there is no other cause of death (head injury, drug overdose or heart failure which could also be causes of fluid in lungs) then it is obvious that the death occurred due to drowning because the presence of fluid in lungs cannot be reproduced by passive flooding of the lungs with water.

I believe this is how the medical examiner concluded that Elisa was alive when she entered the water because I have read about both these indicatives in her autopsy report.

About the lack of injuries due to her climbing into the water tank: was there a ladder she could have climbed in order to get into the tank? I don't know, if there was a ladder then that could explain why she has no injuries from the climb. Perhaps she was a skilled climber?

Could she have been carried into the tank by someone else? Evidence from the autopsy suggest that she was still alive when she entered it. This is just my opinion but how in the world could she have been carried into the tank while still alive without any signs of struggle? Also, presuming she was dead, how could she have been carried into the tank without any injuries? She weighed maybe like 45-50 kg so it would have been difficult for the presumed attacker to just carry her into the tank.

And generally, yes, drowning is a bit problematic to prove as a cause of death because the lack of characteristic signs and is largely a diagnosis of exclusion. However, the findings from the autopsy do not suggest any other underlying condition that could have caused the presence of fluid in lungs or secretions in the airways such as heart failure, nor was she under the influence of drugs or sustained a head injury.

Edit: they did note a small abrasion on her left knee. Also, in response to your question about the SAR dogs, my knowledge is that they wouldn't have picked up her scent because she was in a metal tank. Also it could have been a few days until this search was conducted so they wouldn't have picked up her scent especially if it had rained or something after her disappearance.
 
I think that exhaustive means that when you note a substance as "unknown material" you test it to see what it might be. Noting tattoos aids in body identification and is standard; I don't really see that as an example of being exhaustive. For example, tissue samples were ordered including a fingernail kit. Did you see the results anywhere in the report? Contrast this report by skimming Whitney Houston's 42 page autopsy, also completed by the LA coroner's office; do you still consider EL's report as exhaustive? Link to download a PDF here:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/autopsy/whitney-houston-autopsy-report-095671

Every autopsy report is different. Elisa Lam's might seen not as exhaustive in comparison to the one you provided because of the differences between the two individuals: Elisa Lam - a young female with really no underlying pathology, no sign of external trauma, found in a water tank, no ones really knows anything about her or why she's there. Whitney Houston - a middle aged female with all sorts of associated diseases, all sorts of markings on her body, dental work, scars from surgery etc found dead in the bath tub of her hotel room with loads of evidence waiting to be collected.

The quality of an autopsy report cannot be assessed by the number of pages it contains, but by the quality of information if offers.

Given that, the autopsy is a masterpiece compared to the LAPD report at the scene. The tanks were far from described with attention to detail. The tank was 1/2 or 3/4 full? Well is that 4 ft or 6 ft? That makes a pretty big difference when the person could stand a full foot and a half over the water level in the tank.

Well obviously the water level wasn't constant from when she died up until she was found. Chances are that if she drowned during nighttime the tank would have been full - water tanks tend to have less water in the mornings when everyone gets up, takes a shower etc and use a lot of water, but by nighttime the demand drops and the pump would have made up for it and filled up the tank.
 
Could she have been carried into the tank by someone else? Evidence from the autopsy suggest that she was still alive when she entered it. This is just my opinion but how in the world could she have been carried into the tank while still alive without any signs of struggle? Also, presuming she was dead, how could she have been carried into the tank without any injuries? She weighed maybe like 45-50 kg so it would have been difficult for the presumed attacker to just carry her into the tank.

In regards to carrying a 45-50kg person, I don't think it would be beyond the realms of human physiology, especially if there was more than one person involved in transporting the body. In my opinion the limiting factor would not be physical but rather the capacity to transport the body without being seen.

I am not saying she was transported from elsewhere, just that I don't believe the physical demands of the task combined with the lack of significant soft tissue injury are sufficient to exclude it as a means of Elisa ending up in the tank.
 
In regards to carrying a 45-50kg person, I don't think it would be beyond the realms of human physiology, especially if there was more than one person involved in transporting the body. In my opinion the limiting factor would not be physical but rather the capacity to transport the body without being seen.

I am not saying she was transported from elsewhere, just that I don't believe the physical demands of the task combined with the lack of significant soft tissue injury are sufficient to exclude it as a means of Elisa ending up in the tank.


Unless someone volunteers that kind of information and it's proven to be true, we may never know what really happened, as in how she got into the water storage tank. Cause what we know is that she died by drowning and was still alive when she entered the tank.
 
Cause what we know is that she died by drowning and was still alive when she entered the tank.

Indeed -- and that there was no trauma to the body, nor evidence of anything in the toxicology to suggest she was drugged into unconsciousness.
 
Unless someone volunteers that kind of information and it's proven to be true, we may never know what really happened, as in how she got into the water storage tank. Cause what we know is that she died by drowning and was still alive when she entered the tank.

Sorry, been a while since i went through the autopsy, what was it that indicated she was alive when she entered the tank?
 
Sorry, been a while since i went through the autopsy, what was it that indicated she was alive when she entered the tank?


The fact that the medical examiner found water in her lungs and secretions in her upper respiratory tract. An individual who died prior to entry into water would not have had fluid in their lungs unless there was another cause of death. (heart failure, head injury or drug overdose are the most common) Water cannot enter the lungs passively. (i.e the person was already dead at the moment of submersion)

If a body is recovered from water, no one assumes that the cause of death is drowning.
 
I had been on the fence about sharing the autopsy report but feel since there is still interest in this case, and EL's parents are seeking answers through a wrongful death lawsuit, I am going to post it. I am hoping it will help somehow. Maybe we have some experts out here who can shed light on why so little was done beyond the basics (compare this to Whitney Houston's report).

This is also to aid members here in giving a reference point per a recent mod's comment on forum policy.

Thank you for posting the autopsy report.....R.I.P. Elisa
 
The fact that the medical examiner found water in her lungs and secretions in her upper respiratory tract. An individual who died prior to entry into water would not have had fluid in their lungs unless there was another cause of death. (heart failure, head injury or drug overdose are the most common) Water cannot enter the lungs passively. (i.e the person was already dead at the moment of submersion)

If a body is recovered from water, no one assumes that the cause of death is drowning.

that only indicates cause of death was drowning, does not conclusively prove Elisa drowned in the water tank she was found in.

I am not saying she didnt drown in the tanks (that is the simplest way to wrap the case up); but I am curious to know what evidence exists to rule out the possibility Elisa was drowned elsewhere and then transported to the tanks post-mortem.
 
I am not saying she didnt drown in the tanks (that is the simplest way to wrap the case up); but I am curious to know what evidence exists to rule out the possibility Elisa was drowned elsewhere and then transported to the tanks post-mortem.


Wha...what? I'm confused.
 
I don't mean to be disrespectful to anyone as these all simply opinions, mine included. I just like to make an observation:

The thing about this case that never ceases to amaze me is that -- like almost everything in life -- people are desperately yearning for an answer that makes sense to them. It's human nature to solve any mystery with answers that personally satiate the unknown; because the unknown can be maddening. It reminds me of God -- how people assign a deity/religion to explain the mystery of their own existence -- which is perfectly fine, and I'm not condescending or implying that's wrong. It's just that, sometimes, there is no answer, and there never will be one. We will never have an answer to why Elisa ended up in that tank; why she would ever enter the tank on her own accord -- but from every facet of the case, she did indeed do so.

It's more appeasing to believe that someone else was involved, because it caters to our inherent need for answers. Sometimes, in our desperation to solve a mystery, we end up sustaining and harboring it that much more.
 
We will never have an answer to why Elisa ended up in that tank; why she would ever enter the tank on her own accord -- but from every facet of the case, she did indeed do so.

rsbm --

Yes, we may never have an answer to 'why', as this is likely something so deeply personal, as is much mental illness. But at this point, we do have an answer for 'how', which may be phrased in different ways: on her own accord; by her own doing; by her actions alone.

Nobody else had any responsibility for the events immediately leading up to her death.
 

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