First Hand Knowledge Of What It Feels Like To Be Strangled!!

[Veronica10]

I also believe that she was hit on the head first. I have to wonder what the problem was with PT's bathroom. She said that she could not take a shower there. Could something have happened to JB in that bathroom? Was she trying to deter LE from thoroughly checking there, by saying her shower did not work.

I know many think the maglite caused the wound on the head, but I still wonder if a shower spray attachment could have done the same type of wound, and maybe in the attack, the sprayer was broken, or came loose from
what it was attached to - therefore no shower for PR.

Very interesting Darlene. I wonder if LE ever checked out the shower story. And in what way was the shower broken? Very odd. The spray attachment could have caused a skull fracture like that...some of them are quite heavy. I always wondered if Patsy tried to do a root touch up for JB that night. She looked like she had some dark roots coming in on Xmas morning, but I do not see any dark roots in the autopsy photos.

 

[BBB167893]

That took a lot of courage, Ames.

Bullies are awful people.

Yeah. Even fight, you can take 'em!

If her hands were restrained, she wouldn't have been able to claw at her neck.

Oh, boy. Where to start...

 

[Toaster]

Any chance that sadistic John Ramsey was the boy that strangled you Ames?

 

[Ames]

Any chance that sadistic John Ramsey was the boy that strangled you Ames?

LOL...now wouldn't THAT be ironic....no...but the boy's BROTHER was named JOHN...and he was just as mean....Ramsey wasn't the last name though. LOL

 

[Ames]

Very interesting Darlene. I wonder if LE ever checked out the shower story. And in what way was the shower broken? Very odd. The spray attachment could have caused a skull fracture like that...some of them are quite heavy. I always wondered if Patsy tried to do a root touch up for JB that night. She looked like she had some dark roots coming in on Xmas morning, but I do not see any dark roots in the autopsy photos.

Even though I believe that the rage in Patsy that night was brought on because of JB wetting the bed, I have often thought that it could have been during or after a hair dyeing incident, because of the way that JB's hair was parted off..and put into ponytailS. In the autopsy photo that I saw, I DID see what look like dark roots, in the back of the head, but not the front (it could have been just a shadow though)...and that led me to believe that maybe Patsy had started the dye job, but didn't get to finish it. Who KNOWS what caused Patsy's rage....all I know...IMO...is that she killed her daughter...in an anger induced rage.

 

[BBB167893]

I'm not so convinced of the "accident" idea anymore...

 

[Ames]

I'm not so convinced of the "accident" idea anymore...

SuperDave...do tell!

 

[BBB167893]

Okay, here goes.

And keep in mind I am just spitballing.

I've expanded at some length on my "Snow White" theory in the past, and I've cited several psychoanalysts to support me, such as Jamie Turndorf, et al. "Who's the fairest of them all?" "Not you."

I told my brother the only reason she fed JB pineapple was because there were no poisoned apples around. It was a bad joke, I admit. I wasn't in a very good mood at the time.

But the one I've been struck with only came on recently. I was reading three quotes. Two by Michael Kane, one by a Dr. Rusty Morris. Morris believes Patsy suffered from Munchausen-by-Proxy. Munchausen'S Syndrome is where a person feigns misfortune, most often illnesses, to attain sympathy. The Proxt kind is where they attain sympathy through other people. And who's more sympathetic than a child in pain. The most notable cases of this disorder are the ones where parents harm their children, even kill them. Morris points to the many doctor visits JonBenet made in her life.

Leading from there, I read the two quotes from Kane. He said in one interview that the biggest thing that leapt out at him was how overdone the staging was, almost to the point of being ridiculous. It was a theatrical production and Patsy was a theatrical person.

Not much change for a dollar there. But the clincher was where Kane actually said that Patsy enjoyed being known as the mother of a dead beauty queen. Wow. That got me to thinking. At first, I went down that path to explain why she chose to stage a horrific crime rather than call for help: she knew JB would die, no matter what anyone did, and since JB had been so spectacular in life, she HAD to be spectacular in death.

Everyone still following me?

But then, I started wondering if maybe it was a premeditated killing for that reason. It started to fall into place. The only thing that kept me in the "accident" camp was that I've always maintained that the staging was so sloppy is because it was such a spur-of-the-moment panic deal. But now I wonder if it wasn't just the works of a delusional person.

You folks get all of that?

 

[JMO8778]

It makes sense,SD.

 

[UKGuy]

Okay, here goes.

And keep in mind I am just spitballing.

I've expanded at some length on my "Snow White" theory in the past, and I've cited several psychoanalysts to support me, such as Jamie Turndorf, et al. "Who's the fairest of them all?" "Not you."

I told my brother the only reason she fed JB pineapple was because there were no poisoned apples around. It was a bad joke, I admit. I wasn't in a very good mood at the time.

But the one I've been struck with only came on recently. I was reading three quotes. Two by Michael Kane, one by a Dr. Rusty Morris. Morris believes Patsy suffered from Munchausen-by-Proxy. Munchausen'S Syndrome is where a person feigns misfortune, most often illnesses, to attain sympathy. The Proxt kind is where they attain sympathy through other people. And who's more sympathetic than a child in pain. The most notable cases of this disorder are the ones where parents harm their children, even kill them. Morris points to the many doctor visits JonBenet made in her life.

Leading from there, I read the two quotes from Kane. He said in one interview that the biggest thing that leapt out at him was how overdone the staging was, almost to the point of being ridiculous. It was a theatrical production and Patsy was a theatrical person.

Not much change for a dollar there. But the clincher was where Kane actually said that Patsy enjoyed being known as the mother of a dead beauty queen. Wow. That got me to thinking. At first, I went down that path to explain why she chose to stage a horrific crime rather than call for help: she knew JB would die, no matter what anyone did, and since JB had been so spectacular in life, she HAD to be spectacular in death.

Everyone still following me?

But then, I started wondering if maybe it was a premeditated killing for that reason. It started to fall into place. The only thing that kept me in the "accident" camp was that I've always maintained that the staging was so sloppy is because it was such a spur-of-the-moment panic deal. But now I wonder if it wasn't just the works of a delusional person.

You folks get all of that?

SuperDave,

Unless we can read over JonBenet's medical record then precisely what those visits attended to will be contentious.

That is those that promote Munchausen-by-Proxy as a causal factor in JonBenet's death cannot verify it.

To play devil's advocate if you combine the Douching Theory with Munchausen-by-Proxy and beef it up with some salient facts, add in some rhetoric such as since JB had been so spectacular in life, she HAD to be spectacular in death. then you have another WDI, e.g. Munchausen Did It!

But then, I started wondering if maybe it was a premeditated killing for that reason. It started to fall into place. The only thing that kept me in the "accident" camp was that I've always maintained that the staging was so sloppy is because it was such a spur-of-the-moment panic deal. But now I wonder if it wasn't just the works of a delusional person.

The assault and level of violence inflicted upon JonBenet strongly suggests this was not an accident, if JonBenet or any other person, had been discovered outdoors strangled, with facial injuries, and their head smashed in, I doubt there would be many accident theories being promoted.

If you take into account the possible chronic sexual abuse of JonBenet, and that during his examination of JonBenet Coroner Meyer opined that JonBenet had been Digitally Penetrated then a motive for her death may simply be that a dead pageant princess cannot talk!



.

 

[Solace]

SuperDave,

Unless we can read over JonBenet's medical record then precisely what those visits attended to will be contentious.

That is those that promote Munchausen-by-Proxy as a causal factor in JonBenet's death cannot verify it.

To play devil's advocate if you combine the Douching Theory with Munchausen-by-Proxy and beef it up with some salient facts, add in some rhetoric such as since JB had been so spectacular in life, she HAD to be spectacular in death. then you have another WDI, e.g. Munchausen Did It!


The assault and level of violence inflicted upon JonBenet strongly suggests this was not an accident, if JonBenet or any other person, had been discovered outdoors strangled, with facial injuries, and their head smashed in, I doubt there would be many accident theories being promoted.

If you take into account the possible chronic sexual abuse of JonBenet, and that during his examination of JonBenet Coroner Meyer opined that JonBenet had been Digitally Penetrated then a motive for her death may simply be that a dead pageant princess cannot talk!



.

UK, with all due respect, you go out of your way to speak in tongues. The level of violence was a slam against a hard surface by one very angry person. The rest is staging right down to the paintbrush. Patsy did this thing and John helped but not for the reasons you are adamant about.

 

[coloradokares]

Okay, here goes.

And keep in mind I am just spitballing.

I've expanded at some length on my "Snow White" theory in the past, and I've cited several psychoanalysts to support me, such as Jamie Turndorf, et al. "Who's the fairest of them all?" "Not you."

I told my brother the only reason she fed JB pineapple was because there were no poisoned apples around. It was a bad joke, I admit. I wasn't in a very good mood at the time.

But the one I've been struck with only came on recently. I was reading three quotes. Two by Michael Kane, one by a Dr. Rusty Morris. Morris believes Patsy suffered from Munchausen-by-Proxy. Munchausen'S Syndrome is where a person feigns misfortune, most often illnesses, to attain sympathy. The Proxt kind is where they attain sympathy through other people. And who's more sympathetic than a child in pain. The most notable cases of this disorder are the ones where parents harm their children, even kill them. Morris points to the many doctor visits JonBenet made in her life.

Leading from there, I read the two quotes from Kane. He said in one interview that the biggest thing that leapt out at him was how overdone the staging was, almost to the point of being ridiculous. It was a theatrical production and Patsy was a theatrical person.

Not much change for a dollar there. But the clincher was where Kane actually said that Patsy enjoyed being known as the mother of a dead beauty queen. Wow. That got me to thinking. At first, I went down that path to explain why she chose to stage a horrific crime rather than call for help: she knew JB would die, no matter what anyone did, and since JB had been so spectacular in life, she HAD to be spectacular in death.

Everyone still following me?

But then, I started wondering if maybe it was a premeditated killing for that reason. It started to fall into place. The only thing that kept me in the "accident" camp was that I've always maintained that the staging was so sloppy is because it was such a spur-of-the-moment panic deal. But now I wonder if it wasn't just the works of a delusional person.

You folks get all of that?

:waitasec: I also have wondered about the Muchausens by Proxy element. But I wondered the same thing when Patsy realized that JonBenet was dying Did the super Mega JonBenet thing that friends wanted to speak to her about following the Disney Crusie psycologically morph into the drama that followed JonBenets death ... Patsy was nothing if not what they call a drama queen. I never even gave a second thought to premeditated vs accidental, accidental meaning a moment of extreme rage that left JonBenet mortally wounded. The rest being staging. I have spent a lot of years excusing the purchases at McGuckins as proof of acqusition not intent....But now you got me really thinking

 

[Solace]

Okay, here goes.

And keep in mind I am just spitballing.

I've expanded at some length on my "Snow White" theory in the past, and I've cited several psychoanalysts to support me, such as Jamie Turndorf, et al. "Who's the fairest of them all?" "Not you."

I told my brother the only reason she fed JB pineapple was because there were no poisoned apples around. It was a bad joke, I admit. I wasn't in a very good mood at the time.

But the one I've been struck with only came on recently. I was reading three quotes. Two by Michael Kane, one by a Dr. Rusty Morris. Morris believes Patsy suffered from Munchausen-by-Proxy. Munchausen'S Syndrome is where a person feigns misfortune, most often illnesses, to attain sympathy. The Proxt kind is where they attain sympathy through other people. And who's more sympathetic than a child in pain. The most notable cases of this disorder are the ones where parents harm their children, even kill them. Morris points to the many doctor visits JonBenet made in her life.

There is one thing wrong with the Muchausen's Syndrome - Patsy really did have Ovarian cancer, Stage IV and she was getting quite a bit of attention from it for several years.

 

[rashomon]

UK, with all due respect, you go out of your way to speak in tongues. The level of violence was a slam against a hard surface by one very angry person. The rest is staging right down to the paintbrush. Patsy did this thing and John helped but not for the reasons you are adamant about.

Just my opinion too, Solace. The head slammed against a hard surface does not mesh with a premeditated killing at all.

But I do agree with the theatrical aspect of the staging which Michael Kane mentioned. For it jibes with Patsy being a theatrical person. Patsy being the director of the staged scene as soon as she realized irreparable damage had been done.
"Patsy ran this show from start to finish", Delmar England wrote.

 

[UKGuy]

UK, with all due respect, you go out of your way to speak in tongues. The level of violence was a slam against a hard surface by one very angry person. The rest is staging right down to the paintbrush. Patsy did this thing and John helped but not for the reasons you are adamant about.

Solace,

I think I'll leave the speaking in tongues to those of more religious persuasion.

The level of violence was a slam against a hard surface by one very angry person.

I suspect if this had been the case then JonBenet's skull fracture would have had a more flattening effect, rather than the inward, concave indentation that appears in the autopsy photographs!

The skull fracture may be part of the staging too, if not, then it seems to me that JonBenet was deliberately killed. Since she was subjected to an asphyxiation, the sides of her head have bruising reflective of a sustained assault, she has numerous contusions and abrasions on the rest of her body, also her skull was caved in, however you choose to sequence her death, there appears nothing accidental to me about it!


.

 

[Solace]

Solace,

I think I'll leave the speaking in tongues to those of more religious persuasion.


I suspect if this had been the case then JonBenet's skull fracture would have had a more flattening effect, rather than the inward, concave indentation that appears in the autopsy photographs!

The skull fracture may be part of the staging too, if not, then it seems to me that JonBenet was deliberately killed. Since she was subjected to an asphyxiation, the sides of her head have bruising reflective of a sustained assault, she has numerous contusions and abrasions on the rest of her body, also her skull was caved in, however you choose to sequence her death, there appears nothing accidental to me about it!


.

Good idea about the tongues UK.

A child of 40 pounds being manhandled by an adult could have been slammed against the bathtub also, a round surface. She could have slipped and fell backwards against it and there lies the caving in of the back of her head and the resulting split some 8 1/2 inches to the bridge of her nose. It can happen with a child this small and a parent in rage.

As far as the bruising on the sides of JonBenet's head, that was more than likely from severe shaking to try and wake her. The sexual staging is done to throw the police off and it is done thoroughly right down to defiling JonBenet. "If we are going this far, we may as well go all the way". And they did.

 

[Solace]

Just my opinion too, Solace. The head slammed against a hard surface does not mesh with a premeditated killing at all.

But I do agree with the theatrical aspect of the staging which Michael Kane mentioned. For it jibes with Patsy being a theatrical person. Patsy being the director of the staged scene as soon as she realized irreparable damage had been done.
"Patsy ran this show from start to finish", Delmar England wrote.

Hi Rash, nice to hear from you.

 

[UKGuy]

Good idea about the tongues UK.

A child of 40 pounds being manhandled by an adult could have been slammed against the bathtub also, a round surface. She could have slipped and fell backwards against it and there lies the caving in of the back of her head and the resulting split some 8 1/2 inches to the bridge of her nose. It can happen with a child this small and a parent in rage.

As far as the bruising on the sides of JonBenet's head, that was more than likely from severe shaking to try and wake her. The sexual staging is done to throw the police off and it is done thoroughly right down to defiling JonBenet. "If we are going this far, we may as well go all the way". And they did.

Solace,

A child of 40 pounds being manhandled by an adult could have been slammed against the bathtub also, a round surface. She could have slipped and fell backwards against it and there lies the caving in of the back of her head and the resulting split some 8 1/2 inches to the bridge of her nose. It can happen with a child this small and a parent in rage.

The possibility of an accident can never be ruled out, but when Burke whacked JonBenet on the face with a golf-club, she was rushed to hospital asap!

Also an accident would not require such a complex cover up, why not just stage an accident scenario if it was so?

As far as the bruising on the sides of JonBenet's head, that was more than likely from severe shaking to try and wake her. The sexual staging is done to throw the police off and it is done thoroughly right down to defiling JonBenet. "If we are going this far, we may as well go all the way". And they did.

What sexual staging?


.

 

[Solace]

Solace,


The possibility of an accident can never be ruled out, but when Burke whacked JonBenet on the face with a golf-club, she was rushed to hospital asap!

Also an accident would not require such a complex cover up, why not just stage an accident scenario if it was so?



What sexual staging?


.

UK,

Burke whacked her and she was still standing; we have been over this, but let me try again. She was still standing and awake. Big difference when someone is not responding and appears dead for all intents and purposes. She was also shaken, hence the bruises on both sides of her brain. Someone was franctic. I betcha it was Patsy.

As far as staging a scenario - JonBenet was slammed full force and either slipped and slammed into the bathtub or was pushed by a very angry Patsy. I think Patsy and John have been around enough to realize that when someone is pushed into something, it will probably show up and if someone falls down the stairs, the forensics will most likely show that also.

Sexual Staging: Well you don't think the inserting of the paintbrush was real do you UK? This was staging done by the parents so that the finders would say "parents would never do this".

Where is all the semen UK? Not even a scintilla of it. Where did it go?

It didn't go anywhere because it does not exist. This is a rage killing covered up by two people who are frantic. They are out of their minds with fear and they are going to save themselves.

 

[UKGuy]

UK,

Burke whacked her and she was still standing; we have been over this, but let me try again. She was still standing and awake. Big difference when someone is not responding and appears dead for all intents and purposes. She was also shaken, hence the bruises on both sides of her brain. Someone was franctic. I betcha it was Patsy.

As far as staging a scenario - JonBenet was slammed full force and either slipped and slammed into the bathtub or was pushed by a very angry Patsy. I think Patsy and John have been around enough to realize that when someone is pushed into something, it will probably show up and if someone falls down the stairs, the forensics will most likely show that also.

Sexual Staging: Well you don't think the inserting of the paintbrush was real do you UK? This was staging done by the parents so that the finders would say "parents would never do this".

Where is all the semen UK? Not even a scintilla of it. Where did it go?

It didn't go anywhere because it does not exist. This is a rage killing covered up by two people who are frantic. They are out of their minds with fear and they are going to save themselves.

Solace,

Burke whacked her and she was still standing; we have been over this, but let me try again. She was still standing and awake. Big difference when someone is not responding and appears dead for all intents and purposes. She was also shaken, hence the bruises on both sides of her brain. Someone was franctic. I betcha it was Patsy.

She had bruising on the side of her head e.g. temple region, this excludes what some have conjectured is a stun-gun mark. It could have been anyone, in particular Burke, or as BlueCrab has speculated a family friend?

As far as staging a scenario - JonBenet was slammed full force and either slipped and slammed into the bathtub or was pushed by a very angry Patsy. I think Patsy and John have been around enough to realize that when someone is pushed into something, it will probably show up and if someone falls down the stairs, the forensics will most likely show that also.

If it is an accident then only the forensic evidence consistent with this will be evident. This is why it makes more sense to stage an accidental death as an accident, this was my first take on JonBenet's death, I assumed a staged accident would minimise the forensic evidence transfer and merge with the then current accidental death?

Sexual Staging: Well you don't think the inserting of the paintbrush was real do you UK? This was staging done by the parents so that the finders would say "parents would never do this".

Where is all the semen UK? Not even a scintilla of it. Where did it go?

It didn't go anywhere because it does not exist. This is a rage killing covered up by two people who are frantic. They are out of their minds with fear and they are going to save themselves.

Was the paintbrush inserted, this is yet to be verified. Coroner Meyer is on record as stating JonBenet's genital pathology was consistent with digital penetration, bear in mind, he was present at the autopsy and is a qualified medical examiner.

JonBenet was wiped down, any semen may have been removed early in her staging.

Absence of evidence does not demonstrate it never existed or the lack of guilt!

Yes it may be a rage killing, specifically a sexual rage killing!


.