FL FL - Angela Ramsey, 16, Deland, 21 June 1977

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@ Janet, did you submit this PM to Doenetwork or anyhting yet?
 
After years of looking at cases in Florida, I feel this case is related to at least two others.

Angela was last seen in a Florida motel in '77

Patricia Elayne Action was last seen in a Florida motel in '78
http://www.nampn.org/cases/action_patricia.html

Teresa Lyn Fittin was working in a Florida motel in '75
http://www.nampn.org/cases/fittin_teresa.html

Each was small in stature, each had long, light brown/blonde hair.
I can't help but believe they each encountered the same person. A serial killer on vacation perhaps.


JMO
 
JustCryssy said:
After years of looking at cases in Florida, I feel this case is related to at least two others.

Angela was last seen in a Florida motel in '77

Patricia Elayne Action was last seen in a Florida motel in '78
http://www.nampn.org/cases/action_patricia.html

Teresa Lyn Fittin was working in a Florida motel in '75
http://www.nampn.org/cases/fittin_teresa.html

Each was small in stature, each had long, light brown/blonde hair.
I can't help but believe they each encountered the same person. A serial killer on vacation perhaps.


JMO
Click to expand...

I also think it's very interesting because these three have similar physical characteristics: all attractive, petite teenagers. They all vanished from a motel or near the area of one. They also aren't missing too far apart. Below is a link to the map that lists where all three of these girls vanished (Clearwater= Patricia Action, Delan= Angela Ramsey and Fort Lauderdale= Teresa Fittin).
Also, the time era they vanished very close together: 1975-1978.

I find it odd there are so many teen girls, all pretty, petite, lots of brunettes, who vanished in the '70s (Amy Billig, 17, missing from Coconut Grove, FL). There were also many serial killers in Florida back in those decades. Gerlad Stano (but his spree ended in the early '70s), Ted Bundy (known for killings in West coast area, but also some in FL-he was recaptured there in 1978. Is is possible he had something to do with the disappearance on one of these girls?), Christopher Wilder (1983, rampage in FL, amongst other states), Henry Lee Lucas (active in TX, but thought to have been in FL as well), Ottis Toole (active in Florida 1976, thought to be the murderer of Adam Walsh-homosexual).

I have always wondered if Angela Ramsey was a victim of Ted Bundy. She certainly fits the profile (young teen, with long brunette hair parted down the middle). If you look at some of his other confirmed and presumed victims (Julie Cunningham), she fits the profile. The time she vanished also lines up with the time he was in Florida, and since he was traveling and a drifter, it would make sense he would be at a motel. JMO.

Map:
Google Maps
 
amber1 said:
I also think it's very interesting because these three have similar physical characteristics: all attractive, petite teenagers. They all vanished from a motel or near the area of one. They also aren't missing too far apart. Below is a link to the map that lists where all three of these girls vanished (Clearwater= Patricia Action, Delan= Angela Ramsey and Fort Lauderdale= Teresa Fittin).
Also, the time era they vanished very close together: 1975-1978.

I find it odd there are so many teen girls, all pretty, petite, lots of brunettes, who vanished in the '70s (Amy Billig, 17, missing from Coconut Grove, FL). There were also many serial killers in Florida back in those decades. Gerlad Stano (but his spree ended in the early '70s), Ted Bundy (known for killings in West coast area, but also some in FL-he was recaptured there in 1978. Is is possible he had something to do with the disappearance on one of these girls?), Christopher Wilder (1983, rampage in FL, amongst other states), Henry Lee Lucas (active in TX, but thought to have been in FL as well), Ottis Toole (active in Florida 1976, thought to be the murderer of Adam Walsh-homosexual).

I have always wondered if Angela Ramsey was a victim of Ted Bundy. She certainly fits the profile (young teen, with long brunette hair parted down the middle). If you look at some of his other confirmed and presumed victims (Julie Cunningham), she fits the profile. The time she vanished also lines up with the time he was in Florida, and since he was traveling and a drifter, it would make sense he would be at a motel. JMO.

Map:
Google Maps
Click to expand...

There are also possible victims that fit the description in the surrounding years, except for 1976.

1973 - Unidentified petite teen - south Florida
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/635uffl.html

1979 - Sharon Anne Harrer - 19, 5'4, 98lbs, dark blonde hair, blue eyes disappeared from south Florida from a tourist oriented club.
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2874dffl.html

Possibly the key is the year 1976.

When searching through unidentified and missing in Florida 1976 has VERY few cases in comparison to the surrounding years, and none that fit the description.
'76 was the Bicentenial and there would have been a lot going on all over the country that year, prompting many to not vacation. My own family skipped the yearly vacation due to parades, celebrations, etc. (which is part of what prompted my vacationer theory)
HOWEVER, it is also possible they were in prison.

This is all just my opinion and theory based on late nights of searching old case files for Florida.
 
JustCryssy said:
There are also possible victims that fit the description in the surrounding years, except for 1976.

1973 - Unidentified petite teen - south Florida
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/635uffl.html

1979 - Sharon Anne Harrer - 19, 5'4, 98lbs, dark blonde hair, blue eyes disappeared from south Florida from a tourist oriented club.
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2874dffl.html

Possibly the key is the year 1976.

When searching through unidentified and missing in Florida 1976 has VERY few cases in comparison to the surrounding years, and none that fit the description.
'76 was the Bicentenial and there would have been a lot going on all over the country that year, prompting many to not vacation. My own family skipped the yearly vacation due to parades, celebrations, etc. (which is part of what prompted my vacationer theory)
HOWEVER, it is also possible they were in prison.

This is all just my opinion and theory based on late nights of searching old case files for Florida.
Click to expand...

Very interesting post! Sharon's case is very haunting-who is "Robert Crawford?" I feel like I've heard this name before in different cases, but I have never looked into it.
I have always wondered if there was perhaps an unidentified serial killer in FL. Some of these UIDs and missing persons dont fit in on the known killers list, for multiple reasons (ex: incarceration). But with so many young girls missing in the 70s from Florida, one has to wonder. And all the circumstances seem to point to abductions. JMO

PS: sorry for the map above, Idk why I cant get that link to show those 3 MPs abd LKA!
 
I've pondered about the use of the name Robert Crawford as well.
I've read that serial killers/psychos often will give themselves a persona they relate to, or wish to be like.

After all these years, I know that it would be difficult to find witnesses, additional evidence, etc... but I can't help but believe that the answers to Angela's case, and the others is here... we just aren't seeing that one little connecting piece.
 
I agree. I wonder if it would be beneficiary to try to look up Robert Crawford. Not saying it is his name but you never know. The big question is, why did this person pick this name? It has to have some significance to it. Are there any known serial killers who went by different alias'? These girls' disappearance remind me of those girls' who were victims of Stano. The circumstances, where it happened, how it happened (getting into a car with "Robert Crawford"). That is all stuff Stano did. Except he was locked up already. Maybe there is a copy cat? Or did he have a side kick? There was much contemplation that he did. But he later recanted it.
Angela's case just really baffles me because I am very sure she went with someone willingly (perhaps on a car ride or out and about somewhere) and something very bad happened. I do believe she intended on returning to the motel. JMO
 
There was an actor named Robert Crawford in the 60's. He played mainly small parts on lots of different TV shows. His father was a marine turned producer/agent. He was way over shadowed by his younger brother, Johnny Crawford of The Rifleman fame. Ironically, he played a role in the movie "The Imposter" in 1961.
Is it possible this guy was trying to pass himself off as the real Robert Crawford?
If so, he would have had to have similar traits. (??)

ETA:
Charle Ng used the alias Paul Cosner, who was actually his first known victim.
Carl Panzram used the name John O'Leary after the Irish nationalist and the name Jeff Rhoades. (possibly one of his victims)
Leonard Lake also took on one of his victims names, Robin Stapley. (believed to be his first)
and of course Mudgett called himself H. H. Holmes, a muddling of presidential names and Oliver Wendell Holmes.
I believe I have read that Bundy used an alias at one point, but it escapes me.
 
Very interesting!
I just can't get over how similar "Robert Crawford" is to Gerald Stano. In the book, I would Find a Girl Walking, this serial killer would tell the author he often felt over shadowed by his brother, the "perfect" child.
Most of his victims were women though, so I do not see him using a woman's name as an alias. He was very into the media, in the sense of being obsessed with movies and disco music. One of his first kills was actually because he became so enraged when a girl he picked up told him she did not like disco music.
So very bizarre!
**Also, I reread the story on Gerald Stano, and realized he had not been arrested until April 1st, 1980, which would mean he was running free at the time all these ladies vanished. He was finally arrested after he attacked a drug addict/prostitute at a motel. He stabbed her 30 times, but she managed to get away, go to police and turn him in. If it was not for that girl, many say he would have killed many many more.
The fact that he is known for picking girls up "off the strip", hang around motels to find girls, and offer them rides (he was knowing for always picking girls up and usually attacked them in his car while driving) is very eery because it reminds me of the three cases you named earlier. He claims to have started his killing spree in the '60s and killed majority of his victims in the 70s, right up until he got caught in 1980.

I do believe that who ever was "Robert Crawford" was just using it as an alias. I'm surprised there seem to be no other reports about similar cases, but then again we have no way of knowing if there are other cases. I think the fact someone else knew this person's alias was "Robert Crawford" is very lucky. It would be interesting to see if Stano had used any aliases, although I cannot remember if he had. It was always speculated he killed many more women then he confessed to, which he would constantly taunt LE about. I wonder if his "hidden cards" in his "game" are actually some of these girls he was never tied to. Would be interesting to see if he ever was considered a suspect in these cases. JMO
 
I haven't checked the thread for updates,

But do authorities know the man who took Angela to dinner before she disappeared?

Did he take a polygraph? Results?

Did he ever become a suspect in the case or even a person of interest? Still think this "stranger" knows more than he is telling.

Satch
 
Satch said:
I haven't checked the thread for updates,

But do authorities know the man who took Angela to dinner before she disappeared?

Did he take a polygraph? Results?

Did he ever become a suspect in the case or even a person of interest? Still think this "stranger" knows more than he is telling.

Satch
Click to expand...

According to Charley Project, "The Stranger" Angela met is not a suspect in the case:

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/r/ramsey_angela.html

For comparison, this is what Doe Network has on Angela's case:

http://doenetwork.org/cases/49dffl.html

Satch
 
I also dont think the mystery dinner date man had anything to do with it. Could she have hitched a ride with the wrong person?
 
amber1 said:
Very interesting!
I just can't get over how similar "Robert Crawford" is to Gerald Stano. In the book, I would Find a Girl Walking, this serial killer would tell the author he often felt over shadowed by his brother, the "perfect" child.
Most of his victims were women though, so I do not see him using a woman's name as an alias. He was very into the media, in the sense of being obsessed with movies and disco music. One of his first kills was actually because he became so enraged when a girl he picked up told him she did not like disco music.
So very bizarre!
**Also, I reread the story on Gerald Stano, and realized he had not been arrested until April 1st, 1980, which would mean he was running free at the time all these ladies vanished. He was finally arrested after he attacked a drug addict/prostitute at a motel. He stabbed her 30 times, but she managed to get away, go to police and turn him in. If it was not for that girl, many say he would have killed many many more.
The fact that he is known for picking girls up "off the strip", hang around motels to find girls, and offer them rides (he was knowing for always picking girls up and usually attacked them in his car while driving) is very eery because it reminds me of the three cases you named earlier. He claims to have started his killing spree in the '60s and killed majority of his victims in the 70s, right up until he got caught in 1980.

I do believe that who ever was "Robert Crawford" was just using it as an alias. I'm surprised there seem to be no other reports about similar cases, but then again we have no way of knowing if there are other cases. I think the fact someone else knew this person's alias was "Robert Crawford" is very lucky. It would be interesting to see if Stano had used any aliases, although I cannot remember if he had. It was always speculated he killed many more women then he confessed to, which he would constantly taunt LE about. I wonder if his "hidden cards" in his "game" are actually some of these girls he was never tied to. Would be interesting to see if he ever was considered a suspect in these cases. JMO
Click to expand...


While Stano would seem the best fit for the time period/general location, he had no M.O. as far as a type of victim beyond female.
The "Once a Year" girls as I call them, (no disrespect to anyone) were all frightening similar.
I think Angela, and the others, ran into someone more like Bundy. Likable, probably young and attractive... possibly giving the appearance of having money. (Robert Crawford said to drive a caddy)

While my main theory revolves around a vacationer, because of the time framing between these girls, and location of their disappearance, I think there is also the possibility of a salesman, selling hotel/motel supplies.
 
Things were different back then. Young girls alone might think someone offering to take them around would be a safe idea. This area really didn't have much going for it when Angela went missing. It built up in the 10 years after she disappeared. I'm wondering why she ended up here anyway.

But, it's still an open area around the motel. It's still there. And I don't think she went far.
 
I also wondered how she ended up down there....back in those decades, the amount of girls being killed, vanishing and female UIDs is pretty high. I was looking through Charley Project for FL the other night and...wow...I hope some of these find closure!
 
Does anyone see a resemblance between Angela and Princess Doe? Forgive me if this has been previously discussed. I did see Angela's name listed on a list of possibilities for Princess Doe. Along with many others, she has not been "ruled out" yet. I guess the odds of that happening are slim, given the amount of time it takes to compare DNA. I was struck by the similarity of Angela's picture and the portrayal of the Princess.
 
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