FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #11

[rd_jfc]

BBM - Isn't that basically what Jennifer's parents believe? (Minus the time, I'm not sure about that.)

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Mrs. Kesse @ APX 12:17 minutes in Part 2 of the "Concluded" podcast: Initially, the two detectives thought that Jennifer was taken that night. They thought that Jennifer—Jennifer. These two gumshoe detectives thought that Jennifer would have gone out after ten o’clock at night to take Logan’s friend phone to a UPS or a FedEx mail envelope—twice—at ten o’clock at night. We kept trying to tell them there is no way in hell.

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And sure enough, someone posted an old link that still works with at least one "gumshoe detective" saying pretty much exactly what Mrs. Kesse said they said. So, do you mean LE changed their mind since that time and now believe in the morning parking lot of condo abduction, as do Jennifer's parents? Or maybe I'm wrong and I don't understand what Jennifer's parents believe?

If LE really have evidence for one or both of those cell phones going dead during the evening of the 23rd, I would be shocked if they really changed their theory that much. I don't mean I agree with them about the reason she went out, or even if she went out at all--but it's hard to ignore the phone or phones event.

Yes, you're absolutely right, however the information about the two phones going dead at 10:40 pm also comes from Mr. Kesse, about three years ago. When was he actually told that? I have no idea. But I didn't see where they acknowledged this information changes everything about any views of going out to work the next morning.

I've seen very little of what they have to say, some posts on their Guestbook, and don't have the info to decipher where they're at on this. Plus as parents in this awful situation I'm sure we all excuse just about anything they say.

So my comments are on the police public statements. Do the police say this because of the Kesse's, or vise versa, or totally independent. Who knows. But the police were involved in this critical information that Drew posted but apparently years after they cared to say anything publically about Jennifer's case. I actually saw someone post that they say they turned it over to FBI and FBI says it's not their case.

Doesn't get any worse than that for parents of a loved one.

 

[rd_jfc]

If Jennifer made it to her car to go to work, why did she not call Rob as per usual?

I have heard and read several interviews where Drew stated the phones were "turned off and presumably the batteries removed at 10:40 pm".....Did he know this as a fact or was he just repeating rumor?

He was pretty carefully repeating what he had been told by authorities in that post.

 

[marable]

He was pretty carefully repeating what he had been told by authorities in that post.

I have been trying to research when the 10:40 pm timeframe came about and the best that I can come up with so far is when Blink on Crime started investigating Jennifer's case....She was privy to information from SMART Team members the way I interpret it.....I read tonight that the last time that the phones pinged was around 10:40 pm near the area when a witness supposedly saw Jennifer in a white truck sitting between two men...Blink emphatically states the phones were not merely turned off but the batteries were removed......I have also read that some people knew or guessed the location of the pings and that area has been searched by OPD.....

You are so right RD, the Kesse's have lived through and continuing to live through the worst nightmare that a parent could endure.....My heart breaks everytime I see them.....Tonight when I was researching the 10:40 pm timeframe, Drew Kesse looked directly into the camera speaking to Jennifer, "I am coming, I am, I am getting close, I am coming for you , I will", it that won't tug at your heartstrings nothing will....I pray this is the year that they find Jennifer for them.....

 

[rd_jfc]

I have been trying to research when the 10:40 pm timeframe came about and the best that I can come up with so far is when Blink on Crime started investigating Jennifer's case....She was privy to information from SMART Team members the way I interpret it.....I read tonight that the last time that the phones pinged was around 10:40 pm near the area when a witness supposedly saw Jennifer in a white truck sitting between two men...Blink emphatically states the phones were not merely turned off but the batteries were removed......I have also read that some people knew or guessed the location of the pings and that area has been searched by OPD.....

You are so right RD, the Kesse's have lived through and continuing to live through the worst nightmare that a parent could endure.....My heart breaks everytime I see them.....Tonight when I was researching the 10:40 pm timeframe, Drew Kesse looked directly into the camera speaking to Jennifer, "I am coming, I am, I am getting close, I am coming for you , I will", it that won't tug at your heartstrings nothing will....I pray this is the year that they find Jennifer for them.....

I hope your prayers are heard.

marable, that info comes from a 2014 post by Drew in their Jennifer Kesse Guestbook. He indicates he was told this first hand by authorities, uses the description he was told just so about the batteries being removed. I don't have the link handy but we've posted it here I'm sure. Came up in a search for me.

 

[Truth Prevails]

If Jennifer made it to her car to go to work, why did she not call Rob as per usual?

I have heard and read several interviews where Drew stated the phones were "turned off and presumably the batteries removed at 10:40 pm".....Did he know this as a fact or was he just repeating rumor?

I would like to know the answers to these questions, the actual answers. My apologies if I implied in any way that I did.

Yes, you're absolutely right, however the information about the two phones going dead at 10:40 pm also comes from Mr. Kesse, about three years ago. When was he actually told that? I have no idea. But I didn't see where they acknowledged this information changes everything about any views of going out to work the next morning.

I've seen very little of what they have to say, some posts on their Guestbook, and don't have the info to decipher where they're at on this. Plus as parents in this awful situation I'm sure we all excuse just about anything they say.

So my comments are on the police public statements. Do the police say this because of the Kesse's, or vise versa, or totally independent. Who knows. But the police were involved in this critical information that Drew posted but apparently years after they cared to say anything publically about Jennifer's case. I actually saw someone post that they say they turned it over to FBI and FBI says it's not their case.

Doesn't get any worse than that for parents of a loved one.

I do believe that the information about the phones, plural, comes from Mr. Kesse. I don't know why Mrs. Kesse would say in part 2 of the "Unconcluded" podcast that LE had never told them that. Maybe Mr. Kesse's information did not come from LE. I would bet, though, that it was accurate to a great extent.

It is only my personal opinion that the phones did go dead that night. LE continuing to go with something happening not long after Jenn talked to Rob is something that I have problems discounting.

I totally agree about this not being able to get any worse for the victim's family. They are victims, too. Mrs. Kesse said something in the last podcast about being too close to the situation. That is so very, very true. My heart goes out to Jenn's mom, her dad, her brother and all her friends. I send my deepest, deepest sympathy for their loss--even if by some miracle it turns out to be a loss of years. Mrs. Kesse once said she held on to the Elizabeth Smart case. I pray that she is always able to hold on to that hope and that it is fulfilled.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Not all crime scenes appear to be crime scenes....

How do you know there was no food at home? I have read otherwise suggesting that she stopped for groceries on her way home on Monday evening as she had a party scheduled for Tuesday evening....

If Jennifer left for work , why did she not call Rob as she usually did?

I have never seen anything in over 11 years that would suggest that she was abducted from her work place.....

BBM--Just to clarify my own thoughts surrounding this, but not stating as fact.

When I theorize and type something like: "Jennifer left for work", I'm trying to go with Mr. & Mrs. Kesse's beliefs (or the way I understand their beliefs).

That being that Jennifer slept in her own bed on the night of the 23rd; woke up at whatever time; maybe grabbed a coffee; showered; selected various outfits including high heeled shoes & put on an outfit; (I don't know about shoes, I think someone said she wore her flip-flops but put her heels in her briefcase; Mrs. Kesse said she had her heels on). Continuing with Jenn's morning routine: laid the towel over the washer; put in her contacts; blew her hair dry; applied make-up; gathered her briefcase & purse; and left her condo intending to get into her car which should have been parked outside in her condo parking space and drive to work.

She may have done all of the above, but--I'm not implying that she made it to her car. Just that she left her actual condo and intended to walk to her vehicle. Maybe someone grabbed her in the hallway of her condo building just after she had closed the door to her condo and pulled her into the empty condo next door.

At other times, I may suggest that she could have made it all the way to her car, but was struck from behind as she opened the door or something.

I know Mrs. Kesse said that Jenn was very cautious and always looked in and around her car as she approached. (But Jenn didn't disappear into thin air, something happened somewhere.)

So, working off of that, I think that's why I might sometimes say she left for work. I don't mean she got in her car to drive to work, but rather only that she walked out of her condo door heading toward her car. I never, ever mean or even intend to imply that she got anywhere near her work. While I appreciate that could be a viable theory, I don't see that being the case here.

I have absolutely no idea if any of that actually happened. None. I thought we were all just bouncing theories around as we have no way of knowing what actually happened.

I do believe Rob when he said Jenn never called him that morning as she always, reliably did. I do believe Jenn would have called Rob that morning had she been able to get in her car and start driving on the appropriate roads towards her place of work.

Maybe I was "theorizing" on the wrong thread? My apologies, if so. I'll pay more attention to the thread titles. I'm sorry and regret any confusion I created.

 

[scadagirl28]

Truth, Don't worry about it . I have been enjoying your posts. We all have our theories and have posted them in both threads. I think depending on what detective at what time has gone both morning and evening just like us .

 

[scadagirl28]

I am wondering if they still think he came down John Young Parkway instead of just driving up Conroy . Cleaning the car or coming from where he was staying or both ?

 

[marable]

To me some of the things that point to an am abduction also could point to a pm abduction...

Her contacts for example are missing , did she put the contacts in in the am before leaving for work Tuesday am OR did she never remove them Monday evening?

The clothes on the bed, could they be clothes she looked at to wear to work Tuesday am or did she take them out of her duffle bag or another bag she had for her trip on Monday evening...

Could Jennifer have taken a shower the night before to go out? Would the water behind the shampoo bottle still be puddled there after a pm shower?

The phone being turned off, Jennifer never turned her phone off since receiving it at age 14-16, she used it as an alarm clock....

Her favorite snakeskin pumps, could they have been packed inside her briefcase and she wore the flip flops to and from the car.....I really don't see Jennifer unloading her car wearing 3 in heels that Joyce mentioned in podcast # 2 to unload the car and walk up a flight of stairs to her condo...

Does it really make a difference what time the phones were turned off , the phones pinged away from her condo the night before I believe before being shut off, could Jennifer have received a call from a friend and decided to go out after she spoke to Rob.....I know, I know it was not Jennifer's habit to go out after getting home, she usually did not go out at night alone , Joyce and Drew Kesse do not believe she would go out after speaking to Rob......BUT......Jennifer was a grown woman , doing her own thing and habits change as we get older....

The ONE thing that really gets me whether we believe in an am or pm abduction is the security system at the Mosaic....She was very safety conscious and would have had to set her security alarm before opening her door if her system is like ours....It is reported that the Mosaic people who did the wellness check did not find that the security system was armed....

Scadagirl, I wonder about JYP being used by the POI as well.....Didn't the Kesses set up camp with posters and flyers at JYP and Americana trying to attract attention to Jennifers case soon after she disappeared? I have always wondered why that area.....Personally , I think if I were the POI , I would have traveled in Jennifers car along a less populated highway but that is just me....

 

[Markybug]

If it wasnt for the car being returned, i could picture it being someone random , but i think it was someone she knew. Either the ex or the work colleague. The ex ticks a lot of boxes !

 

[marable]

If it wasnt for the car being returned, i could picture it being someone random , but i think it was someone she knew. Either the ex or the work colleague. The ex ticks a lot of boxes !

The car being moved has always bothered me.....Why was it necessary to move Jennifer's car unless the suspect wanted it to appear that she had gone to work that morning?

 

[Myserty64]

There is a good chance the car was moved to cause confusion.
If so, it worked big time.

 

[shelly111]

While thr theory Jennifer was abducted when walking to her car or near her car is what many makes people think had happened but other theories can't be exluded.
Jennifer felt uncomfortable around the illegal workers and she wouldn't let her guard down.Also illegal Mexicans are very common in fl ,they are working all over the state in construction ,landscaping and I never heard about one case of illegals workers kidnapped a person.
It is more likely someone that Jennifer knew, although not very well ,but Jennifer saw him at the mosaic .He could have been a painter,an electrician or an office worker.
Jennifer drove away and when she passed the security gate, she was stopped by someone she knew
and Jennifer agreed to give this person a ride.
Maybe she was stopped by someone on her way to work or she
stopped somewhere and could have been kidnapped in this place. Another scenario,Jennifer made it to work and someone was waiting there. A coworker
and Jennifer felt comfortable at her place of work and let her guard down.
There are so many different scenarios.
No One knows for sure what really happened.

 

[Markybug]

The car being moved has always bothered me.....Why was it necessary to move Jennifer's car unless the suspect wanted it to appear that she had gone to work that morning?

Or if she went out in it the night before , something happened and that was the suspect (or accomplice) returning it ?

 

[Truth Prevails]

Truth, Don't worry about it . I have been enjoying your posts. We all have our theories and have posted them in both threads. I think depending on what detective at what time has gone both morning and evening just like us .

Ohhhh--the detectives, too? I didn't realize that. :thinking:

 

[Truth Prevails]

If it wasnt for the car being returned, i could picture it being someone random , but i think it was someone she knew. Either the ex or the work colleague. The ex ticks a lot of boxes !

I keep thinking of Bo, the hound dog, tracking back to Jennifer's parking spot--if it was someone she knew, perhaps he parked his vehicle near Jenn's and used Jenn's car to take her away; but had to return to get his vehicle. At high noon, maybe he decided parking Jenn's vehicle at the HOG and walking to Jennifer's condo parking area would attract less attention than pulling into Jennifer's actual parking spot as the driver of her vehicle and exiting it to get into his own.

The car being moved has always bothered me.....Why was it necessary to move Jennifer's car unless the suspect wanted it to appear that she had gone to work that morning?

I know this is not likely, but possibly a friend could have called her the evening of the 23rd and asked if he could drop over to pick her up and take her out for a quick drink--perhaps explaining there was something important he wanted to discuss with her. Maybe when he arrived she decided he had already had a few too many to be driving so she suggested she would drive and take her own vehicle. This doesn't fit that great with explaining why her condo alarm system was off, or with the cleanliness of the vehicle, though.

There is a good chance the car was moved to cause confusion.
If so, it worked big time.

I can see this. Even the moving of the driver's seat forward--was this done because the person was shorter than Jenn, or also for the sake of confusion? Whoever did this seemed to not only be clever, but have incredible luck.

Or if she went out in it the night before , something happened and that was the suspect (or accomplice) returning it ?

This would be the simplest and most obvious explanation, and in 9 out of 10 crimes it is the explanation that holds water. But in this case what would make a safety conscious young woman already concerned about sexual innuendos from condo workers--and she must have known some were staying the night in unfinished condos--get all dressed up and go out alone? Then we can start with why would she not take a minute to set her condo alarm system and why would she turn her phone off as she was driving to where ever?

It's almost like she had to have been taken at her condo door, fully and carefully attired, with both phones and her purse plus briefcase in hand--just after talking to Rob around 10 PM. And then they would have had to overcome her, force her down the hall, down the stairs, and into her own vehicle? Only to return later to pick-up their own? And manage to do all this without leaving a trace?

And the recent shower: a late evening shower--which she was not in the habit of doing and may not fit the drying time scenario; or a morning shower--but had she been already abducted?

How could this have ever happened? What really happened to Jennifer Kesse?

 

[Truth Prevails]

To me some of the things that point to an am abduction also could point to a pm abduction...

Her contacts for example are missing , did she put the contacts in in the am before leaving for work Tuesday am OR did she never remove them Monday evening?

Exactly. I try to form two columns in my mind--one titled Could It Be An AM Abduction; one titled Could It Be A PM Abduction. The contacts fit in both columns.

The clothes on the bed, could they be clothes she looked at to wear to work Tuesday am or did she take them out of her duffle bag or another bag she had for her trip on Monday evening...

Again, both. She had an important meeting on Tuesday, so maybe she spent a little time the evening before thinking about what to wear. Or, maybe she wasn't the type to do that.

I have heard somewhere that her bags from vacation were still at her condo door and had not been unpacked. Still, though, I don't see how anyone except Jenn, herself, could really say for a certainty what was packed and what wasn't. And you make an excellent point about "another" bag.

Could Jennifer have taken a shower the night before to go out? Would the water behind the shampoo bottle still be puddled there after a pm shower?

It certainly would in my area, but Florida might be different. For my columns, I put the shower in the AM column--giving the benefit of the doubt to our previous discussion.

The phone being turned off, Jennifer never turned her phone off since receiving it at age 14-16, she used it as an alarm clock....

To me this is strong, and only can belong in the PM abduction column.

Her favorite snakeskin pumps, could they have been packed inside her briefcase and she wore the flip flops to and from the car.....I really don't see Jennifer unloading her car wearing 3 in heels that Joyce mentioned in podcast # 2 to unload the car and walk up a flight of stairs to her condo...

When I was 24 I would have thought nothing of it. Now-a-days, if I look at a heel in a shoe store, my feet hurt. But, sure, it wouldn't be out of the ordinary to pack your heels in your briefcase and where flip-flops. Strangely enough, driving bothered me more with heels than doing stairs in them. Just saying.

Does it really make a difference what time the phones were turned off , the phones pinged away from her condo the night before I believe before being shut off, could Jennifer have received a call from a friend and decided to go out after she spoke to Rob.....I know, I know it was not Jennifer's habit to go out after getting home, she usually did not go out at night alone , Joyce and Drew Kesse do not believe she would go out after speaking to Rob......BUT......Jennifer was a grown woman , doing her own thing and habits change as we get older....

The phone events are a huge piece of solid evidence that can be produced in court. I know there is debate about the phone(s) going dead or powering off and the timing of the phone ping. But (#1) the ping in another area and (#2) the going dead and/or powering off on the evening of the 23rd, are both huge indicators of an evening abduction.

The ONE thing that really gets me whether we believe in an am or pm abduction is the security system at the Mosaic....She was very safety conscious and would have had to set her security alarm before opening her door if her system is like ours....It is reported that the Mosaic people who did the wellness check did not find that the security system was armed....

Yes. This is the another huge point. And if they have evidence of this, this is solid. PM abduction column.

Scadagirl, I wonder about JYP being used by the POI as well.....Didn't the Kesses set up camp with posters and flyers at JYP and Americana trying to attract attention to Jennifers case soon after she disappeared? I have always wondered why that area.....Personally , I think if I were the POI , I would have traveled in Jennifers car along a less populated highway but that is just me....

I hope you excuse me for jumping in, but I hate to snip the last paragraph. The only thing I'll mention is the guy seemed to have no problem casually parking Jenn's vehicle and strolling along the fence with the surveillance cameras recording. I don't know if he knew about them and if it would have been possible to time that, and I have heard that it would not have been, but the luck this guy had and the efficiency exhibited, blows my mind. I can't imagine that he would let a little bit of traffic bother him. Either column.

 

[shelly111]

I have to add something about the dog .
I think the dog followed Jennifer's scent no matter what because her scent was the dominant scent. The scent of Jennifer much stronger compare to a scent of someone being in the car just few hours.
A dog is still just a dog so it's not 100% so the dog could have gotten confused with the scents. Just because the dog stopped at the bottom of the stairs doesn't mean he followed the poi scent.The dog could have followed followed Jennifer's scent to her apt and her parking spot.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Oh, drats. After my edit time expired, I realized I should have thought better of the following:

I would like to disregard the above and say that this is a huge point, and if they have solid evidence of this with a time attached, only then could I feel safe saying which column it would go in. Without a time, and going only on the assumption that they have evidence of this (without a time), I would favor both AM and PM columns for the abduction time.

As it is, it could indicate an abduction from her condo. If only we had a time.

Sorry for the confusion.

Now suppose LE or a PI hired by Mr. Kesse obtained actual physical records evidence concluding that: (#1) her condo alarm was turned off around 10 PM; (2) a ping from one of the cell phones from another tower indicating one of the phones moving around 10 PM; (#3) her cell phone and maybe Travis' cell phone going dead or was/were powering off around 10 PM--we are looking at a PM abduction.

The presumptions of a morning shower could not discount this.

 

[Truth Prevails]

I have to add something about the dog .
I think the dog followed Jennifer's scent no matter what because her scent was the dominant scent. The scent of Jennifer much stronger compare to a scent of someone being in the car just few hours.
A dog is still just a dog so it's not 100% so the dog could have gotten confused with the scents. Just because the dog stopped at the bottom of the stairs doesn't mean he followed the poi scent.The dog could have followed followed Jennifer's scent to her apt and her parking spot.

Oh, this is a good point. I never looked at it in this way. Interesting.

I have seen in several places where they used a hound dog--I've even seen a picture of him in a video. And someone here said his name was "Bo." A quick Google will bring up lots of hits about hound dogs having a keener sense of smell--the keenest. All dogs are great, but hounds are apparently the best of the best.

Still, though, I don't know how you could explain to them which scent to track if they detected two in a vehicle.

Wouldn't it be great if Bo's handler could do an interview with the "Conclude" podcast people?