FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #6

[rd_jfc]

left, GPS is a separate issue. I posted a bit on it in Theresa Parker's disappearance.

Concerning police knowing there are locator pings but withholding the information of when the cell phone was turned off and where it was, in that never never land world where anything is possible because police are said to be concealing it, there is no limit to the what ifs.

rd

 

[leftcoast]

Yes, RD thanks

IT also says that cell phone companies decide just how long to store the data.

Given this, why is the JK case unsolved?

Le should know the exact time her phone was shut off.

Why hasn't this been released, or was it erased before LE got it?

Who is to say that the subpeona came after the data was erased?

IF lE knows JK's cellphone was shut off at a certain time, then they should release this information to the public, because their current methods are not working.

BTW: Whenever LE comes up with a new trick, the crooks find a way around it.

Nowadays, the drug dealers, and criminal types, are simply buying re-chargeable cell phones, and using them, and tossing them.


left

 

[rd_jfc]

reposting left - lost it editing it.

Phone companies store the pings to know where to send calls to a cell phone. Technically, of course, you only need to store each location and time as the cell tower changes to determine movement.

As far back as Scott Peterson's journey to San Francisco Bay with Laci's body, ping locator information was used to identify his location. From Modesto Bee:

Peterson told his mother-in-law, father and a friend that he was in Bakersfield while data from cell phone towers showed he was more than 200 miles away, in the Berkeley and Gilroy areas.

I did a search on it though. Here's a good article excerpt posted on:
http://fresh.gnn.tv/blogs/13712/Killer_Tracked_With_Inactive_Cell_Phone

From the New York Daily News:
(snip)

The big, blue tower apparently took notice that Littlejohn’s cell phone was nearby, even though he wasn’t making a call — and it stored that information, which was later retrieved from T-Mobile by cops.

“It’s a way to track people that is stronger than relying on witnesses,“ a police source said.

The Daily News found the tower, about four blocks from where St. Guillen was discovered, and at least a dozen more along the 5.7-mile stretch between the site and Littlejohn’s Queens home.

end quote

rd

 

[rd_jfc]

In my opinion, when the police say they have no indication of Jennifer's activity after her 10 pm call to her boyfriend, that certainly includes not having ping locator info that stops at a certain time after 10 pm.

rd

 

[SeriouslySearching]

You are welcome.

Still, if true within Jk's cellphone company, than why can't LE pinpoint the exact time JK's phone was turned off? Who says they can't and haven't? Since when do they release any pertinent info to help track her? They obviously do not..even to the family.

I wonder if it depends on the newness of the software, and the density of the cell sites. I also wonder how long the data is kept. I would assume Jenn had a relatively new cell phone and it probably has the capability for GPS. LE isn't going to release that information. In her case, when they filed for the information initially...they would put a hold on the data indefinitely. I assume this would be true in any LE case and why they ask for the information sooner now.

In the bouncer's case, I'm assuming he had a newer phone with GPS in it? IF I remember right, LE was all over the bouncer from the beginning, since, it was the last place the missing woman was known to have been, and I believe he walked her to her car. Plus, let's face it, NYPD has over 30,000 officers, and a ton more experience, than a small town with only 600 officers, and only 25-50 homicides per year. I don't think it mentioned specifically if his phone had GPS or not.

I still think LE should have asked for help in this case. I totally agree!


Didn't we hear that Jk's phone didn't have GPS in it, nor did her car? Again, this coming from LE. We already know we cannot trust the information being given out to the public or family.

I also wonder just how long this information is stored. See above. LE would request it be held indefinitely, but I doubt they can go back after a long period of time to retrieve it. However, I have not tracked down the answer to that...but I am trying.

Why doesn't LE know when and where JK's phone was turned off? I believe they do know.

Why didn't LE use this technology with the Kelsey SMith case, and rely instead on incoming phone calls? They admitted using "other" technologies with the cell phone, but didn't want to release it...like in the Kelly Nolan case..in order to be able to use it again.

Plus, why couldn't LE be able to find Wade Steffey, when he was on campus? He was found by accident. Did he have an older phone, no GPS? He could have had an older phone (I doubt it), but remember he was found in a major electrical unit so his cell phone was either fried or interefence would have prevented them receiving the data.

I'll tell ya, I really think the clues to solve this case are present. The cellphone should have clues, the landline, the photo, forensics in the car, and all the media, and we have nothing. Hard to believe. LE HAS more, but they are not going to tell the family OR the media. Look at how they guarded the stupid video and how that turned out! They cannot see the forest for the trees.

IT's amazing to think, that our cellphones have turned into beacons. IF someone wants to track your movements, they can use your cellphone, on-star, online tracking devices which are installed in automobiles, etc. This is why there are a number of groups in line to stop it. However, I prefer to lose my privacy over perhaps losing my children's lives or even my own.

This works both ways. Recently, in Phoenix, a man was charged with installing a tracking device in his ex-girlfriends car, and using the internet to stalk her movements. The woman finally caught on, and he was arrested. The Patriot act doesn't allow for John Q. Public to track anyone legally...and only allows specific LE agencies. (If I am not mistaken on this.) He was probably just charged with stalking tho or was he charged with using the device specifically? I guess it would be like wiretapping in a way.

Thing is, as technology changes, the perp.'s learn about this technology, and change their MO, or use the technology, such as the auto GPS, to their advantage. True. Everytime LE gets ahead, perps find a way around it. Some criminals are very technologically advanced!

left

Here you go, Left. More to ponder!

 

[leftcoast]

And what good did this technology do in this case:

First, we have the "easy pass", so the POI stays away from the toll roads.

Then, the cellphone, so, the POI turns off the cellphone, and probably throws it into a lake, or garbage.

Then, we have CCTV. The photo is so lousy, we can't even see the face of the POi, or know if it is a he or she. Not to mention the height it probably off.

Then, the POI knows about the guard gate, so, he decides, to avoid it, and hop a wall.

Then, IMO, he is aware of prints and DNA, so he hides evidence , and most likely wipes down the car, and doesn't leave behind any evidence.

And we are suppose to give up our freedoms to fight crime?

Show me how all of the technologies worked in this case?

I want to know when we decided that cell phone companies should know our every move, and be able to store the data.

Can you imagine if a serial killer starting working at a cell company? HE would be able to track everything, it would be a nightmare.

No, I never have liked cellphones.

I think that today, our detectives, rely too much on technology, and not enough on good old detective work. Not every case is going to be solved by the lab, some are going to require LE to find the perp. and have the lab prove the case, instead of the other way around.

left.

 

[rd_jfc]

How about the BTK stangler being a supervisor at ADT?

Regarding GPS, as I said, I did some research on that recently in Theresa Parker's disappearance. The GPS location is only obtained with a phone call, not with locator pings.

However, I did think about it, and I believe if the cell phone had been turned off when put in the recharger, Jennifer would have turned it on when she was leaving, so either the phone company didn't have this locator info for Jennifer's cell phone in that particular case, or they are withholding it as SS suggests. I personally don't believe they are.

What has not been dealt with is that the pictures people complain about do show a police uniform with county shoulder patches and strap down holster, and his face very clearly with sunglasses and a chin strap or goatee. These are features in three different photos that you can enlarge and see for yourself, and the thinking hasn't been adjusted to deal with the reality.

It may be more convenient to say anything is possible, the what if's endless, the comfortable it's a worker at Mosaic speculation that went on for a year and a half based on what was supposed to be a 5'4" person wearing baggy clothes, but the reality is for anyone that cares to look at enough computers until they find one that shows the pictures as clearly as those who can see the uniform and his face, it's a new reality and you have to deal with it.

No one wearing that uniform drove Jennifer's car out of the Mosaic holding her hostage or whatever, and no one wearing that uniform and holster and hat marched for a mile and a half down Americana-Conroy to the Mosaic.

The reality of Jennifer's routine being changed to overnight the cell phone also hasn't been grasped and dealt with. This is significant in what she would do and where she would go that morning, and is is known that she looked for a place to overnight the previous evening, the police did reveal that, and it is known she had to do it that day.

This significant information has been utterly waved off as she would do it from work despite maybe one person with no details saying they have ever heard of an employee using their place of employment to send an overnight package. It is normally not done in a company of any size.

Imposters dress up as cops so they can stop women and assault them. That's what this guy did, in my opinion, and Jennifer would have been driving down Conroy-Americana right past Texas over to Orange Blossom to go down Orange Blossom a mile or so to the Fedex Kinkos. She may not have got any farther than Texas without this guy walking up to her car and stunning her, I don't know, but that's the reality we have to deal with.

I found the photos to contain stunning detail, and so have others. Others just dismiss what they see as not possible or think detail like that magically appears in enlargements.

If there were gaps and I was asking people to have faith that something between two gaps was part of a police uniform, then that would be a matter of faith and speculation.

But when you can see solid outlines of a holster with leg straps, county sheriff shoulder patch, and his face with sunglasses, then there's no faith involved here. It's just a matter of accepting and dealing with reality.

rd

 

[UCFAlumni2002]

It has never been stated anywhere that Jenn was looking for a place to mail or overnight the phone. It has only been stated that she MIGHT have gone to send back the cell phone. I can tell you that I know numerous companies where you can send packages via the courier (i.e. fedex, ups, dhl, USPS, etc). There is also no indication that Jenn turned her phone off to charge it. IMO, from Drew and Joyce stating that Jenn's phone never immediately went to voicemail, it implies that Jenn always kept her phone on- even when charging. I am not convinced that Jenn left to mail the cell phone that night as Jenn had just gotten back from vacation- woke up early Monday 1/23/06 to make the 3 1/2 hour drive from Ft Lauderdale to work on Monday. So when she told Rob, her boyfriend, that she was in bed, I believe it. I am 98.9999% that she did not leave her apartment, at least at her own will, on 1/23/06.

 

[rd_jfc]

I never said it was stated she turned her phone off, I said there would be locator pings if it wasn't, and a time they stopped if it wasn't, and there has been no indication that that existed.

Others think the information does exist and is being withheld.

rd

 

[rd_jfc]

Here by the way is for whoever said that adjusting contrast was unacceptable, and the reference I made to the graphics expert saying they think the person is wearing a hat, but not sure.


New Details Released In Disappearance Of Jennifer Kesse
wftv.com
February 10, 2006

(snip)

The best hope so far is a person of interest captured on a surveillance camera near where Jennifer's car was found. Channel 9 brought the images to expert Dominic Levasseur. He was able to enhance the contrast enough to guess that the person is likely wearing a hat, rather than having a unique hairstyle. He also said the clothing is probably light in color as police first thought.

http://www.wftv.com/news/6912982/detail.html

 

[Enrique Sparta]

How about the BTK stangler being a supervisor at ADT?

Regarding GPS, as I said, I did some research on that recently in Theresa Parker's disappearance. The GPS location is only obtained with a phone call, not with locator pings.

However, I did think about it, and I believe if the cell phone had been turned off when put in the recharger, Jennifer would have turned it on when she was leaving, so either the phone company didn't have this locator info for Jennifer's cell phone in that particular case, or they are withholding it as SS suggests. I personally don't believe they are.

What has not been dealt with is that the pictures people complain about do show a police uniform with county shoulder patches and strap down holster, and his face very clearly with sunglasses and a chin strap or goatee. These are features in three different photos that you can enlarge and see for yourself, and the thinking hasn't been adjusted to deal with the reality.

It may be more convenient to say anything is possible, the what if's endless, the comfortable it's a worker at Mosaic speculation that went on for a year and a half based on what was supposed to be a 5'4" person wearing baggy clothes, but the reality is for anyone that cares to look at enough computers until they find one that shows the pictures as clearly as those who can see the uniform and his face, it's a new reality and you have to deal with it.

No one wearing that uniform drove Jennifer's car out of the Mosaic holding her hostage or whatever, and no one wearing that uniform and holster and hat marched for a mile and a half down Americana-Conroy to the Mosaic.

The reality of Jennifer's routine being changed to overnight the cell phone also hasn't been grasped and dealt with. This is significant in what she would do and where she would go that morning, and is is known that she looked for a place to overnight the previous evening, the police did reveal that, and it is known she had to do it that day.

This significant information has been utterly waved off as she would do it from work despite maybe one person with no details saying they have ever heard of an employee using their place of employment to send an overnight package. It is normally not done in a company of any size.

Imposters dress up as cops so they can stop women and assault them. That's what this guy did, in my opinion, and Jennifer would have been driving down Conroy-Americana right past Texas over to Orange Blossom to go down Orange Blossom a mile or so to the Fedex Kinkos. She may not have got any farther than Texas without this guy walking up to her car and stunning her, I don't know, but that's the reality we have to deal with.

I found the photos to contain stunning detail, and so have others. Others just dismiss what they see as not possible or think detail like that magically appears in enlargements.

If there were gaps and I was asking people to have faith that something between two gaps was part of a police uniform, then that would be a matter of faith and speculation.

But when you can see solid outlines of a holster with leg straps, county sheriff shoulder patch, and his face with sunglasses, then there's no faith involved here. It's just a matter of accepting and dealing with reality.

rd

yes great post. I wanted to believe for the longest time it must've been somebody who worked at Mosaic or lived there, whatever. But based on the guy's uniform I'd have to say no. And as far as the phone is concerned, I've always believed she just planned on sending it overnight and leaving early before work so she could drop it off at the post office or fedex kinko's. Interesting that the fedex kinko's is located on that Orange Blossom Street because if you recall, the cops received a tip they deemed so credible that they had SWAT teams bust into some kind of boarding house on Orange Blossom expecting to find Jennifer Kesse there.

I think this might be one of the rare type of these abductions where the victim didn't know her abductor. And we may have put too much stock into the whole "Jennifer didn't feel safe at her apartment so it makes sense it would be a worker." And how could you blame us for feeling that way? It makes perfect sense. However it may not be the cause of her abduction. Remember her boyfriend downplayed it a little saying it was nothing in particular she just felt a little uncomfortable with the workmen.

 

[rd_jfc]

Yes, that may be more than a coincidence that they had a solid lead that she was in that area on Orange Blossom.

I am still looking for the reference that police said she was looking for a place to send an overnight package Monday evening, but all I'm finding is that they think she may have been out looking for a dropbox. That is not what I was thinking of, so I'll keep looking some more.

rd

 

[Enrique Sparta]

err scratch that. they had SWAT teams conduct two raids on 40th Street, near Rio Grande Avenue but obviously came up with nothing. However they were awfully confident after hearing from the tipster, felt it was the real deal.

They also searched a Boarding House on Orange Blossom Trail and felt it a very solid lead.


I've looked up on Google Earth all the places mentioned in the JK saga...

-The two houses on 40th St near Rio Grande Ave are awfully close to the HOTG, I'd say no more than 1.5 miles north.

-There's a post office right next to the Mosaic condos. Right near the mall, it's a no brainer. If she was gonna mail something, that's the place. The others are outta the way. Probably about a 3 minute drive tops AND it's on the way to her work. But it's seriously right next to her place. I can't imagine anyone living in Mosaic not using that post office.

-The FedEx Kinko's on Orange Blossom Trail is in the opposite direction of her workplace (her workplace is northwest of the Mosaic place in Ocoee). It's not far from her house but if she were to use a FedEx Kinko's on her way to work it would make more sense I think to use a FedEx Kinko's on S Kirkman Road. It's closer to her work, might be on the way too.

-There's also a post office right in the area where the SWAT team search/HOTG area.


Of course I'm only going by an aerial view of the city and I don't the city at all. I dunno which is the quickest route, where the freeways are located....so I could be wrong. Please correct me if I am.

 

[Enrique Sparta]

Yes, that may be more than a coincidence that they had a solid lead that she was in that area on Orange Blossom.

I am still looking for the reference that police said she was looking for an overnight package location Monday evening, but all I'm finding is that they think she may have been out looking for a dropbox. That is not what I was thinking of, so I'll keep looking some more.

rd

It's in the most recent link you provided. Check again.

Police are confirming that Jennifer may have left her home at Mosaic at Millenia on Monday night or Tuesday morning looking for a roadside mailbox to mail a package. They will not say where or whether she made it there, but the package is also missing.

 

[rd_jfc]

yeah, that's what I meant is all I'm finding. But I'm looking for some other statement. Maybe this is the only one I've seen.

I did the research on this a while back. The problem is hours. The Fedex Kinkos opens at 6 am, the others would not be open till after she went to work.

The closest Fedex Kinkos is on Orange Blossom above Florida Mall. The drive over to Orange Blossom and down to Fedex I think was about three miles. It's opposite direction, but on the way down Orange Blossom and then just past it she would be able to get on her normal route to work, I believe.

rd

 

[Enrique Sparta]

The closest Fedex Kinkos is on Orange Blossom above Florida Mall. The drive over to Orange Blossom and down to Fedex I think was about three miles. It's opposite direction, but on the way down Orange Blossom and then just past it she would be able to get on her normal route to work, I believe.

Yes none of the locations are very far away, it wouldn't have been a huge deal for her to have gone down to S Orange Blossom Trail. However what about the one on S Kirkman? It's also FedEx Kinko's, it opens later than the other one? it's in the direction towards her work and might be on her daily route as well.

 

[rd_jfc]

No, I believe it also opened at 6 am. I saw it's location on a map to the west. Is it a more logical location on her way to work? IIRC, the route went NW and not particulary close to the Kirkman Rd. location.

The one on Orange Blossom is also next to UCF South campus, and I thought she would be familiar with area.

rd

 

[Enrique Sparta]

No it's northwest, like her workplace is. However it's possible it may be outta the way if there's not a freeway entrance nearby and suppose there is one near the Orange Blossom location. Just based on the aerial view though and for someone without an intimate knowledge of the Orlando area....the Kirkman one is closer to her work and makes more sense.

Good point about her probably being familiar with the Orange Blossom one cause of proximity to the UCF campus.

 

[rd_jfc]

This is apparently the source of the belief that police found fingerprints in Jennifer's car. It is Ed Miller of AMW talking to Nancy Grace, and they are speculating on why the perosn of interest in the photo is a person of interest:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0602/22/ng.01.html

GRACE: Well, interesting. Back to Ed Miller. How exactly are police placing the time the car was abandoned?

MILLER: Well, you know, they`re not telling me a whole lot, and of course, what they do tell me, I want to be very careful to not interfere with the investigation. But investigators have indicated to me that they are fairly certain that this person, the timing. is very close to when that car was discovered. And therefore -- and again, I`m not saying I know what happened, but it could be a fingerprint on the fence, could be a fingerprint on the car. They`re just not saying for sure. But they do believe there`s something more to this person of interest than simply meets the eye.

GRACE: Well, didn`t we also learn, Ed Miller, that someone else made off with her car? That says to me they have found prints in the car.

MILLER: Well, yes. Some -- I mean, I don`t know that for a fact, but yes, they are saying that...

GRACE: Ed, Ed, Ed! You are a veteran crime reporter. Use that noggin! They found these prints. I mean, sure, we could be wrong, but let`s deduce what we can.

MILLER: Yes, absolutely. But there could be other indications. You know, perhaps the seat was pushed back or whatever. But they are saying for sure that Jennifer did not get that car there. Somebody else got that car there, whether it`s fingerprints or something else, or you know, it`s some other evidence that was left there.

end quote

rd

 

[SeriouslySearching]

OK no one is arguing that Jenn did not leave the car. We have never even thought that. It is obvious she did not.

LE has not been forthcoming with ANY evidence to speak of. So why does it surprise you if they DO have specific records of her cell phone and just aren't releasing them? I honestly believe they MUST have those records and they know times, places, etc. before the phone was actually turned off. I believe they are witholding it for whatever stupid reason they think they have which probably is another huge mistake.

From the beginning, you have wanted to believe in the bike helmet and shoes which has led to the rest of this "uniform". I personally believe it is a Chef/restaurant worker myself and it is MY reality of seeing a person dressed this way almost daily for six years which confirms it for me. I can spot the silhouette in my sleep. (It is usually only what I saw at 4:30 am before he left for work.)

Sorry, if I am not going to go to the lengths of borrowing computers or monitors to try to view your patch, taser, and whatever. If it is not visible to the naked eye...I don't think it IS reality. The reality is that LE or the FBI would have already spotted these anomalies and would be looking for this particular uniform publically if it were the case...because it would mean they do have a perp out there pretending to be a cop which is a danger to society as a whole.

She most certainly could have overnighted the package from her office. It would be the most logical conclusion. (Particularly if the company had an account with say Fed-Ex or another company.) However, we KNOW she never mailed the "package", which I never believed she HAD one personally. She went straight to work on Monday from Rob's...Right? So she did not even HAVE possession of the other cell phone until she got home that night after work. The phone was left at her apt. over the weekend. A woman doesn't keep UPS or Fex-Ex packaging at her apt. unless she mails things off on a regular basis and if she didn't do that...then she would not have an airbill handy either. Why go to the trouble of making a special trip out that morning or the night before, when she was so tired, to mail it...if she can do it when she just gets to the office where she knows they DO have all the stuff she needs to mail it. We do know she had not done that before ten or would have mentioned it to Rob. Jennifer was a girl more into efficiency and no nonsense, IMO. No muss no fuss. Mail it from the office...task complete without going out of the way.

I have often thought the perp was possibly infatuated with her from one of her local haunts. She liked to go out with friends and family. It would make sense she went to a lot of the same places on a regular basis. Could he live in Mosaic? Of course, he could if he worked across the street or nearby. Could he have been staying with someone else there? Sure, why not? Lots of people have temporary roomies from time to time. These theories are as logical as any, IMO. This person DID NOT STAND OUT in broad daylight in either location or going down the street either walking or in her car which tells me...He must have belonged around there or SOMEONE would have noticed him!