FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #24

I agree so much with that!!!! I've been calling and calling and calling for them to release evidence ... to make public appeals by giving more detailed information .... "... the integrity of the investigations ...." really? No really???? What investigation? Are they referring to the investigation that has produced no Michelle being found and no arrests two years into it or the other mythical investigation where they "know" stuff, and are diligently pursuing the case, as in right out of a classic PR press release? And where were the actual investigators at today's media event? Why is it that an officer not directly connected to the investigation was answering the grand total of 3 questions or so most of which went like .... hum ... I'm not aware of this or that? Than why was it there to begin with? To preserve the integrity of the projector?

Having been around a lot of what went on...I can tell you 100% that LE took this very, very seriously and my guess is they only need the tiniest piece of evidence to take it to the next step. They aren't going to chance an arrest until they are absolutely sure they will have the result they want. After the Casey Anthony debacle, well, enough said on the why's of no arrest yet.
 
Very much so. The camera was accurate to within seconds. It was Lauren who was either confused with this new information, or who was trying to do damage control knowing that DSJr was about to realize he'd been caught out. It is also what prompted DSJr to clam up and stop co-operating with LE. He was caught in a lie, a big one.

MOO

Well, to me that speaks volumes more actually. If she arrived at 3:18 and something happened, it would make more sense for the 4:26 at Semoran and Hoffner. If something happened, it would take some time to formulate a plan to throw everything off. The other way, whomever harmed her would have had to be an extremely fast thinker!
 
Just wondering, have the removed decals been found? TIA and sorry if I missed this tidbit up thread.
 
Detective Mike Moreschi is the lead detective on the case and he was the one giving the information. The other LE officer is their media representative and it's his job to "not answer questions" in an ongoing investigation.

It was explained why the video was not released in the beginning during the PC.

And seriously? With the number of cases out there that are still unsolved are we to assume that it's all because of shoddy LE work and not sly and crafty perpetrators?

MOO

I'm not sure why it has to be the fault of this or that, I have only said that LE have failed in both finding Michelle and to secure the arrest and conviction of the perpetrators two years into this investigation which is a statement of fact and not of opinion and it was not designed for scapegoating but only to bring attention to other considerations ... namely ... that it ought to be apparent to anyone, that after two years of getting nowhere that one can demonstrate, that is demonstrable, or that is worthy of being demonstrated as an accomplishment based on facts or any other way why it would be of public knowledge, where the only suspect is free and has moved to another state, where nothing of consequence appears in the media about Michelle that this situation has gotting a turn for the worse and no amount of cheerleading is going to change that, and even that it's not said as a vehicle for pointing fingers for it's own sake, but simply to suggest changes in strategies which I have detailed in several posts to no avail.

1. The police must, at this point, involve the public more directly since what this case clearly comes down to is people having information that may then lead to evidence that in turn may lead to where Michelle is. This press event it's a start but much more is needed, assuming this (the press conference) was a real change in strategy and not mainly another PR effort at a sensitive anniversary date.

2. Outside of the police, there must be a real and cohesive effort from the top down to enlist and coordinate help from whatever source it can be found, today shows there's still a reservoir of good will and concern for Michelle and that must be taken advantage of competently... after two years, where volunteers and people of good will might make a difference in a real, tangible sense, we're pushing the envelope and it's got an expiration date written on it, best be mindful of that in my opinion.

<modsnip>


JMO
 
Very much so. The camera was accurate to within seconds. It was Lauren who was either confused with this new information, or who was trying to do damage control knowing that DSJr was about to realize he'd been caught out. It is also what prompted DSJr to clam up and stop co-operating with LE. He was caught in a lie, a big one.

MOO

Or Michelle arrived at 3:18 as the camera seemed to indicate, but didn't go up to the door right away.
 
Or Michelle arrived at 3:18 as the camera seemed to indicate, but didn't go up to the door right away.

So what is your theory about what she was doing for 42 minutes with the twins in the vehicle and DSJr, nor any other neighbour apparently, were aware she was there? She wasn't on her phone. She didn't visit with a neighbour because he eventually did get the twins and no one has come forward to suggest she was speaking with them prior to dropping off the twins.

Common sense indicates that she was already running late at 3:18pm to get back home to meet her other son and that she wouldn't have been sitting around having a nap in her vehicle for 3/4 of an hour before going up and knocking on the door.

MOO
 
So what is your theory about what she was doing for 42 minutes with the twins in the vehicle and DSJr, nor any other neighbour apparently, were aware she was there? She wasn't on her phone. She didn't visit with a neighbour because he eventually did get the twins and no one has come forward to suggest she was speaking with them prior to dropping off the twins.

Common sense indicates that she was already running late at 3:18pm to get back home to meet her other son and that she wouldn't have been sitting around having a nap in her vehicle for 3/4 of an hour before going up and knocking on the door.

MOO

If there was undisputed and clear evidence that Michelle was at DS's for 42 minutes or more precisely that Michelle could have not left the condo at least 42 minutes after her arrival, then it would squarely contradict DS's version of events then why has he not been charged?

As it often is the case around here we're constantly blurring the line between personal convictions and facts, a he said she said situation is not going to be enough to bring about a successful prosecution and those who have a theory that DS is responsible for Michelle's disappearance must at the very least show some convincing evidence that puts Michelle and DS together at the same time in direct contradiction to DS's version of events because the burden of proof is on the accuser not on the defendant, as it is and as it ought to be, in other words it doesn't work like simply she said this and I believe her (because I know DS is guilty) therefore unless he proves she's mistaken it means that he lied ... it doesn't work at all that way here, DS doesn't need neighbors, friends or whom else to testify on behalf of his version of events it's the prosecution that needs testimony contradicting it convincingly... and that's why DS has not been charged with any crime and moved to another state to start a new life.

It seems not clear to some I guess that simply having a theory that does not pan out outside of a circle of like minded people, is not going to break this case, after two years LE needs new evidence to find Michelle, and those evidence are not likely to come by without a strategy to gather said evidence above and beyond of what has been done so far.

JMO
 
To hope for a break of this case, to find Michelle, LE or whom else must find real evidence of someone who must have been in the same place and time with Michelle from when she left the condo or conversely must find evidence that she never left the condo by her own volition to begin with. Such evidence is not known two years into this investigation and that is not an opinion is a fact, therefore what can be done to help find them (the evidence), that is the relevant question in my opinion.
 
If there was undisputed and clear evidence that Michelle was at DS's for 42 minutes or more precisely that Michelle could have not left the condo at least 42 minutes after her arrival, then it would squarely contradict DS's version of events then why has he not been charged?

As it often is the case around here we're constantly blurring the line between personal convictions and facts, a he said she said situation is not going to be enough to bring about a successful prosecution and those who have a theory that DS is responsible for Michelle's disappearance must at the very least show some convincing evidence that puts Michelle and DS together at the same time in direct contradiction to DS's version of events because the burden of proof is on the accuser not on the defendant, as it is and as it ought to be, in other words it doesn't work like simply she said this and I believe her (because I know DS is guilty) therefore unless he proves she's mistaken it means that he lied ... it doesn't work at all that way here, DS doesn't need neighbors, friends or whom else to testify on behalf of his version of events it's the prosecution that needs testimony contradicting it ... and that's why DS has not been charged with any crime and moved to another state to start a new life.

It seems not clear to some I guess that simply having a theory that does not pan out outside of a circle of like minded people, is not going to break this case, after two years LE needs new evidence to find Michelle, and those evidence are not likely to come by without a strategy to gather said evidence above and beyond of what has been done so far.

JMO

As has been hashed over time and time again on these threads, most of the evidence that LE have, that we have been made privy to by way of MSM, is circumstantial. And likely there is more that we are not privy too, such as yesterday's video footage, but again it is still all likely circumstantial. A case with mostly or only circumstantial evidence is very hard to try and get a conviction for. Doesn't mean the person is not responsible, it just means that they've done a good job of keeping forensic evidence out of the equation. But they all make a mistake or two. Which is where the circumstantial stuff starts building up. A good defense attorney however (and he has the best) will try to turn every piece of circumstantial evidence around to reasonable doubt as seems to be the case here on these boards at times. He will obfusticate everything to where there is no clear common sense conclusion for all of this circumstantial evidence to some jurors. It is what they do and some do it very well.

That is why he has been named the prime suspect but has not yet been charged. One piece of good direct evidence to tie it all together is what they need to guarantee a conviction. Or maybe one person with a conscience who knows what happened to come forward. And it appears at the moment the DA is not willing to proceed without it. On that point we can agree. And maybe they will never get it and the case will never be tried. Lucky for DSJr then right? Let's hope that the next girlfriend/fiancé/wife gets out alive then. But it's not the responsibility of posters on a message board to go out and find that evidence even though some locals have tried and god bless them for their efforts. Nor should we be harassing the LE agency who is responsible for this case. We can go over the circumstantial evidence and anything else pertaining to the PRIME SUSPECT that might point us in the direction of where that PRIME SUSPECT may have travelled that afternoon/evening, or perhaps an accomplice, and disposed of Michelle Parker. And if we come up with something that seems to have some real potential, anyone is free to call it in to the proper tip lines.

What there is absolutely no evidence of, circumstantial or otherwise, is that Michelle Parker drove away from that condo, at any time after 3:18pm, of her own free will and met with an unknown assailant(s).

MOO
 
As has been hashed over time and time again on these threads, most of the evidence that LE have, that we have been made privy to by way of MSM, is circumstantial. And likely there is more that we are not privy too, such as yesterday's video footage, but again it is still all likely circumstantial. A case with mostly or only circumstantial evidence is very hard to try and get a conviction for. Doesn't mean the person is not responsible, it just means that they've done a good job of keeping forensic evidence out of the equation. But they all make a mistake or two. Which is where the circumstantial stuff starts building up. A good defense attorney however (and he has the best) will try to turn every piece of circumstantial evidence around to reasonable doubt as seems to be the case here on these boards at times. He will obfusticate everything to where there is no clear common sense conclusion for all of this circumstantial evidence to some jurors. It is what they do and some do it very well.

That is why he has been named the prime suspect but has not yet been charged. One piece of good direct evidence to tie it all together is what they need to guarantee a conviction. Or maybe one person with a conscience who knows what happened to come forward. And it appears at the moment the DA is not willing to proceed without it. On that point we can agree. And maybe they will never get it and the case will never be tried. Lucky for DSJr then right? Let's hope that the next girlfriend/fiancé/wife gets out alive then. But it's not the responsibility of posters on a message board to go out and find that evidence even though some locals have tried and god bless them for their efforts. Nor should we be harassing the LE agency who is responsible for this case. We can go over the circumstantial evidence and anything else pertaining to the PRIME SUSPECT that might point us in the direction of where that PRIME SUSPECT may have travelled that afternoon/evening, or perhaps an accomplice, and disposed of Michelle Parker. And if we come up with something that seems to have some real potential, anyone is free to call it in to the proper tip lines.

What there is absolutely no evidence of, circumstantial or otherwise, is that Michelle Parker drove away from that condo, at any time after 3:18pm, of her own free will and met with an unknown assailant(s).

MOO

Oh Ok "the significant amount of circumstantial evidence that needs just that last piece of evidence" theory which in turn subliminally and not so subliminally puts forth a narrative that DS's guilt is a given and when those prosecutors get a bit more confident about their chances at convincing a jury ... and I hope that was the case and I've been entertaining that possibility for the good part of two years and unfortunately, from my point of view, all of that is taken from I don't know where because I can't find anything even remotely resembling that on the public record, and I can only deal with facts I know when faced with things that either are or are not as a matter of fact when demonstrated not before.

Ultimately it seems to me that your position is that either DS is clearly involved here and it will be proven or if not proven that is only because he had been very cunning, either way your theory is correct and therefore there are no possibilities that you're actually wrong about it and DS is not involved after all, in other words heads or tails same result where your own beliefs are the issue, I will concede then that for what I know you might be right after all but, as it always was the case, there is not much of a point arguing that which the other has for a given and that's that.

But enough of what has been argued over and over for two years and as I said I hope you're right and, as per my example above, even a flip of a coin is roughly correct fifty percent of the time, but my concern is not at this point in arguing endlessly what the police might or might not have as far as evidence go, if they have what it takes to solve this case they'll prove it, gonna have to, and what they'll prove or not is out of my hands in terms of their investigative efforts, all I know that as of today they clearly can't prove it, and being that two years have gone past without finding Michelle or prosecuting anyone for her disappearance, then to me it's not an issue of what I might be convinced of or not and strategically speaking I'd think it's best to assume the worst and perhaps be pleasantly surprised by the best not somewhat the other way around ...

... so ... as far as what I believe really matters ....

... we now know the H3 stopped at Vineland and Conroy at 8:55pm, so who commutes along that stretch of a road regularly around that time or was traveling along that road? ? No cars may have been visible at that exact time and precise location alongside the H3 but what about a bit further down the road?

How about volunteers handing out flyers with pictures of the H3, Michelle, DS and whomever and whatever one might think of, along that stretch of the road? And why the police did not disclose this information a long time ago so this could have been done when it might have been much more effective or worse, altogether feasible, is incomprehensible to me at this time.

JMO
 
In the video it looks dark outside. Does anyone know what time the sun set on November 17, 2011. I can't see him moving her body in the daytime, we know the hummer could have been hidden inside the garage, but for how long? Not very because of the risk factor and she was reported missing right away. The call from the brother would have scared them and they would know people would be looking in a very short time. I know the phone pinged on Conroy at 4:26 but for some reason I don't feel like the hummer, Michelle and the phone are together at that point in time, maybe just the phone.

If he killed Michelle in the condo, he may have left her there, and the hummer in the garage, then drove with the twins back to his parents home. He would have had to leave his phone there and then driven back to his condo to get rid of the body and hummer, but that ping tells us that someone else had the phone. So the other person involved would have had to been at the condo and had to have taken the phone so the ping looked like she was on that road. So lets say that other person took off with the hummer and had the phone and sent the text, while Dale drove the kids to his parents house and dropped them off with his cell. The second person turns off the phone after sending the text and meets up with Dale, now they have to park the hummer and go back to the condo to get the body. So confusing. :banghead: At any rate I don't think he got rid of the body in daylight. It would be more likely before he got rid of the hummer.
 
So what is your theory about what she was doing for 42 minutes with the twins in the vehicle and DSJr, nor any other neighbour apparently, were aware she was there? She wasn't on her phone. She didn't visit with a neighbour because he eventually did get the twins and no one has come forward to suggest she was speaking with them prior to dropping off the twins.

Common sense indicates that she was already running late at 3:18pm to get back home to meet her other son and that she wouldn't have been sitting around having a nap in her vehicle for 3/4 of an hour before going up and knocking on the door.

MOO

I actually think she could have taken a nap. I know there's been some talk of her always being home to meet her son after school, but as you note, it appears she would have already been running late at 3:18, and as far as I'm aware she didn't make any special arrangements for him. Nor did anyone genuinely start looking for her until much later, according to the timelines I have seen, which seems odd if she inexplicably didn't show up at a place and time (i.e., home to meet her son) where she always appears like clockwork.

Michelle had to work that night and had been up and running since morning. If she was supposed to meet Dale at 4 to hand off the twins and made it to his condo 45 minutes early, and the twins had fallen asleep, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that she could have taken a short nap before going up to the door.
 
I should be grateful that LE released this new footage, but instead I am angry.

What good is this going to do us 2 years later?

If they had released this video days after they verified it to be Michelle's hummer, they should have put it out. People who were opposite the hummer at the traffic light or driving past could have called in if they had seen the person in the car.

Two years later no one will remember this. And even if they do and come forward, it's been so long that it will never hold up in a court of law
 
In the video it looks dark outside. Does anyone know what time the sun set on November 17, 2011. I can't see him moving her body in the daytime, we know the hummer could have been hidden inside the garage, but for how long? Not very because of the risk factor and she was reported missing right away. The call from the brother would have scared them and they would know people would be looking in a very short time. I know the phone pinged on Conroy at 4:26 but for some reason I don't feel like the hummer, Michelle and the phone are together at that point in time, maybe just the phone.

If he killed Michelle in the condo, he may have left her there, and the hummer in the garage, then drove with the twins back to his parents home. He would have had to leave his phone there and then driven back to his condo to get rid of the body and hummer, but that ping tells us that someone else had the
phone. So the other person involved would have had to been at the condo and had to have taken the phone so the ping looked like she was on that road. So lets say that other person took off with the hummer and had the phone and sent the text, while Dale drove the kids to his parents house and dropped them off with his cell. The second person turns off the phone after sending the text and meets up with Dale, now they have to park the hummer and go back to the condo to get the body. So confusing. :banghead: At any rate I don't think he got rid of the body in daylight. It would be more likely before he got rid of the hummer.

Iirc, the sun set at 5:17pm. I had just run across that this morning somewhere way back in the earlier threads but didn't keep the page so it's iirc and jmo. It could have set a few mins later.
 
Oh Ok "the significant amount of circumstantial evidence that needs just that last piece of evidence" theory which in turn subliminally and not so subliminally puts forth a narrative that DS's guilt is a given and when those prosecutors get a bit more confident about their chances at convincing a jury ... and I hope that was the case and I've been entertaining that possibility for the good part of two years and unfortunately, from my point of view, all of that is taken from I don't know where because I can't find anything even remotely resembling that on the public record, and I can only deal with facts I know when faced with things that either are or are not as a matter of fact when demonstrated not before.

Ultimately it seems to me that your position is that either DS is clearly involved here and it will be proven or if not proven that is only because he had been very cunning, either way your theory is correct and therefore there are no possibilities that you're actually wrong about it and DS is not involved after all, in other words heads or tails same result where your own beliefs are the issue, I will concede then that for what I know you might be right after all but, as it always was the case, there is not much of a point arguing that which the other has for a given and that's that.

But enough of what has been argued over and over for two years and as I said I hope you're right and, as per my example above, even a flip of a coin is roughly correct fifty percent of the time, but my concern is not at this point in arguing endlessly what the police might or might not have as far as evidence go, if they have what it takes to solve this case they'll prove it, gonna have to, and what they'll prove or not is out of my hands in terms of their investigative efforts, all I know that as of today they clearly can't prove it, and being that two years have gone past without finding Michelle or prosecuting anyone for her disappearance, then to me it's not an issue of what I might be convinced of or not and strategically speaking I'd think it's best to assume the worst and perhaps be pleasantly surprised by the best not somewhat the other way around ...

... so ... as far as what I believe really matters ....

... we now know the H3 stopped at Vineland and Conroy at 8:55pm, so who commutes along that stretch of a road regularly around that time or was traveling along that road? ? No cars may have been visible at that exact time and precise location alongside the H3 but what about a bit further down the road?

How about volunteers handing out flyers with pictures of the H3, Michelle, DS and whomever and whatever one might think of, along that stretch of the road? And why the police did not disclose this information a long time ago so this could have been done when it might have been much more effective or worse, altogether feasible, is incomprehensible to me at this time.

JMO

Flyers did go out in the beginning with pictures of Michelle and the Hummer. And the vehicle was found 3/4 of a mile from where the video was taken so I'd imagine the fact that LE was all over the place searching around that area would indicate that perhaps a flyer or two made it's way to the area. It was no surprise that the Hummer, minus the decals was in that area sometime before 10pm that night. All that information was out there in the beginning. How do we know that LE didn't find the video based on eyewitness accounts of the Hummer on that road and at that intersection?

And on this board, the only information "on the record" that we have to work with is the information that has been provided in MSM. By LE. And they are the ones who've said in the past, during a press conference, that they only need one more piece of the puzzle to put this case together. This is not a theory that has been made up by myself or any other poster. Ignoring the facts as we know them and trying to come up with imaginary facts that might exclude the LE named PRIME SUSPECT in the case is not at all helpful in trying to determine where that suspect and/or his accomplice may have travelled that evening to dispose of Michelle.

MOO
 
Brad Parker will be on Nancy Grace tonight.
 
I actually think she could have taken a nap. I know there's been some talk of her always being home to meet her son after school, but as you note, it appears she would have already been running late at 3:18, and as far as I'm aware she didn't make any special arrangements for him. Nor did anyone genuinely start looking for her until much later, according to the timelines I have seen, which seems odd if she inexplicably didn't show up at a place and time (i.e., home to meet her son) where she always appears like clockwork.

Michelle had to work that night and had been up and running since morning. If she was supposed to meet Dale at 4 to hand off the twins and made it to his condo 45 minutes early, and the twins had fallen asleep, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that she could have taken a short nap before going up to the door.

DSJr was apparently home watching the People's Court episode. We had a poster who is a friend of his who verified that for us early on. So even though DSJr was at home, you still believe that Michelle, who had another child at home who would be waiting for her, might have pulled up outside the condo and proceeded to have a nap for 3/4 of an hour in the vehicle with the children?
 
Flyers did go out in the beginning with pictures of Michelle and the Hummer. And the vehicle was found 3/4 of a mile from where the video was taken so I'd imagine the fact that LE was all over the place searching around that area would indicate that perhaps a flyer or two made it's way to the area. It was no surprise that the Hummer, minus the decals was in that area sometime before 10pm that night. All that information was out there in the beginning. How do we know that LE didn't find the video based on eyewitness accounts of the Hummer on that road and at that intersection?

And on this board, the only information "on the record" that we have to work with is the information that has been provided in MSM. By LE. And they are the ones who've said in the past, during a press conference, that they only need one more piece of the puzzle to put this case together. This is not a theory that has been made up by myself or any other poster. Ignoring the facts as we know them and trying to come up with imaginary facts that might exclude the LE named PRIME SUSPECT in the case is not at all helpful in trying to determine where that suspect and/or his accomplice may have travelled that evening to dispose of Michelle.

MOO

:thumbup:

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
 
Flyers did go out in the beginning with pictures of Michelle and the Hummer. And the vehicle was found 3/4 of a mile from where the video was taken so I'd imagine the fact that LE was all over the place searching around that area would indicate that perhaps a flyer or two made it's way to the area. It was no surprise that the Hummer, minus the decals was in that area sometime before 10pm that night. All that information was out there in the beginning. How do we know that LE didn't find the video based on eyewitness accounts of the Hummer on that road and at that intersection?

And on this board, the only information "on the record" that we have to work with is the information that has been provided in MSM. By LE. And they are the ones who've said in the past, during a press conference, that they only need one more piece of the puzzle to put this case together. This is not a theory that has been made up by myself or any other poster. Ignoring the facts as we know them and trying to come up with imaginary facts that might exclude the LE named PRIME SUSPECT in the case is not at all helpful in trying to determine where that suspect and/or his accomplice may have travelled that evening to dispose of Michelle.

MOO

3/4 mile from Walden circle is quite a lot considering the area that can be covered by X amount of volunteers, and that is not considering ... say ... 3/4 mile before the intersection of Vineland and Conroy and that also is not considering the psychological effects that pinpointing a precise location might have to a potential eyewitness who might be incensed to remember visual details of events upon hearing about a location and its proximity that he/she might be very familiar with.

One would think that at least on this occasion one would lay some blame on someone else other then the usual suspects. And why is it that the police have withheld that piece of information for two years or so? Anyone has a theory on that? And how withholding that information has helped in finding Michelle or charge anyone in her disappearance? I know the police said they were "protecting the integrity of the investigation" does anyone here have a theory of what that means in relation to this piece of evidence?

JMO
 

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