GUILTY FL - Robert, 67, & Myriam Dienes, 56, murdered, 20 Aug 2015 *daughter sentenced LWOP*

[Gardenista]

Point is though, the jury rejected her insanity defense, and her self defense claim. Had I been on the jury I would have voted the same. I don't think she was not aware of what she was doing or of the consequences.

I'm aware. I was just replying to the points in your post.

 

[Doghairrules]

'The trauma is severe': Psychologist says abuse may have led Nachtman to kill parents
Updated: 5:52 PM EDT August 1, 2019
TAMPA, Fla. — The jury was brought forward Thursday morning following arguments over case law and legal concerns of evidence which may have been taken unconstitutionally.
[...]
The jury viewed a video of Nicole Nachtman being interviewed by a state doctor which showed her requesting an attorney before being recorded. While Judge Sabella said he did not agree with it, he decided not to suppress the evidence.

Forensic psychologist continues to testify
After the jury was brought out, Dr. Charles Patrick Ewing was brought forward to finish his testimony.

"The trauma was great, the trauma was severe," Ewing said in reference to Nachtman's childhood and background.

He testified Nachtman remains mentally ill and her mental illness has deteriorated over the years as a result of her stunted personality and the abuse he claims she suffered at the hands of her mother, Myriam.

He testified he agreed with Dr. Kathleen Hiede's testimony that Nachtman suffers from battered child syndrome.
[...]
Ewing said she was heard saying, "I don't think I really live on the outside - It's like being buried alive, but I'm already dead."

He also agreed with Heide's testimony that Nachtman suffered from severe schizophrenia, saying she would go on tangents, start rambling and was thinking disorderly.
[...]
Ewing testified Nachtman knew killing her parents was legally wrong but did not know what she was doing and didn't know the consequences.

He added Nachtman was suicidal but wasn't able to do it. He said during her interview Nachtman said she was afraid her parents would kill her because of the financial problems they were discussing over the phone, so she panicked and killed Robert.
[...]
The state cross-examines the forensic psychologist
After a short break, Ewing was cross-examined by the prosecution. The state questioned Ewing's diagnosis of schizophrenia and the defense's claim of insanity.

Ewing continued to testify Nachtman was in a "psychotic state" when she killed both Robert and Myriam. He added she was "suicidal" and "didn't know what she was doing."
[...]
The jury was allowed a break and Judge Sabella asked Nachtman if she wished to testify in her own trial. After a few questions, she declined and the defense rested its case.

The prosecution brought forward David Lehr, Nachtman's cousin, once again in its rebuttal case against the defense.

Lehr testified to some of the family photos, including photos of the family going to a horror convention together at the age of 18.

The jurors were dismissed and Ronald Nachtman, Nachtman's biological father, was brought forward for questioning about abuse of Myriam.

He said Myriam choked him while she was pregnant and punched and shoved him while he was holding Nicole "several times." He even claimed she fractured his skull at one point because he said she hit him so hard.

Ronald was dismissed as a witness and the trial was paused for lunch.

The state psychologist and psychiatrist testifies
The trial resumed around 1 p.m. as the prosecution brought Dr. Emily Lazarou forward as a rebuttal witness. Lazarou is a state psychologist, psychiatrist, and forensic psychologist and was the first doctor to evaluate Nachtman.

In the jail records, Nachtman was not diagnosed with a mental illness and is not taking medications for a mental illness, Lazarou testified. She said she believes she spent around 14 hours with Nachtman.

She testified she does not believe Nachtman fits the diagnosis of 'battered child syndrome' she said due to the "limited scope" of the reported physical abuse. She also said she is not aware of the personality scales used by Dr. Heide to diagnose Nachtman.

Lazarou testified Myriam was a "strict" parent who "wanted the best" for Nachtman. She said after speaking to Joseph, Nachtman's brother, she said she gathered Nachtman had a "crude" style of speaking with her cursing, but said that was due to her being raised in a household with all boys and being in the military.
[...]
Lazarou diagnosed Nachtman with 'adjustment disorder with depressed mood,' meaning Nachtman has a hard time adjusting to change in her life. One of the depressive issues she had was Nachtman not succeeding in college and college not being "what she expected" since she had a 3.8 GPA in high school.

She also testified she has diagnosed Nachtman with 'borderline personality disorder' and says she fits six of the criteria for the disorder. She said Nachtman has an unstable personality with limited interpersonal relationships, has no sense of "self," a chronic feeling of emptiness due to the lack of sense of self, and was overly paranoid about her mom finding out about things, causing severe dissociative symptoms.

Lazarou said Nachtman does not fit the criteria of schizophrenia. She said Nachtman never reported psychotic symptoms to her, including auditory and visual hallucinations. She adds Nachtman was not insane at the time of the crime.

She said it was strange that someone who could not clean themselves could clean an entire murder scene. She also testified it was strange it was reported Nachtman could not do her laundry, but that she could wash the clothes at the murder scene.
[...]
The defense cross-examines the state psychologist
Following a short break, the defense tried to discredit Lazarou and her testimony and analyses of Nachtman during cross-examination.

During the cross-examination, Lazarou testified she asked Nachtman if she had been hearing voices or seeing things others could not see, and she said Nachtman had said no, she hadn't. She also testified she disagreed with the definition of insanity that Ewing had presented in terms of experiencing hallucinations.

After another quick break, the defense questioned Lazarou's testimony of Myriam's parenting styles and the alleged abuse. Lazarou said she would have provided counseling to the parents if she had heard about the reported head slamming and kicking Myriam was accused of against Nachtman.

She again testified there was no documentation of physical abuse outside of Nachtman's reporting of the abuse.

Video interview between Nachtman and Lazarou
The defense showed part of a 22-minute-long video of the interview between Lazarou and Nachtman.
[...]
She admitted Nachtman did tell her she was feeling suicidal. Lazarou testified, however, it was due to Nachtman's borderline personality disorder, not her having schizophrenia.

RSBM. Interesting. Lazarou says nachtman doesn’t suffer from battered child syndrome, yet she diagnosed her with borderline personality disorder, which many trauma specialists now believe is a result of developmental trauma.

What Is Developmental Trauma?

 

[Tortoise]

Re: Lazarou's compensation--she admitted it during this trial testimony.

Yes I've just re-listened. It is in the region of $700K since 2008.

 

[SeesSeas]

You can hear all of the above on the trial videos on the Law and Crime youtube channel.
Law & Crime Network

For reference - the complete trial playlist:
Nicole Nachtman Trial - YouTube
Nicole Nachtman Trial
35 videos

1
14:22NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Trial Jury Instructions 07/24/19
Law & Crime Network

2
38:15NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Trial Prosecution Opening Statement
Law & Crime Network

3
1:06:42NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Trial Defense Opening Statement 072419
Law & Crime Network

4
32:57NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Trial Day 1 Witnesses: Elizabeth Roe - Neighbor
Law & Crime Network

5
1:14:32NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Trial Day 2 Witnesses Wesley Roe & Det Michael Pecyloak 07/25/19
Law & Crime Network

6
1:22:43NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Trial Day 2 Witnesses: Lt Robert Carr & Shelby Garman
Law & Crime Network

7
1:23:05NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Trial Day 2 Shelby Garman, Brandon Douglas - CSI & Jennifer Norman - CSI
Law & Crime Network

8
1:31:41NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Trial Day 2 Witnesses: Robert Der - CSI, Jacob Becker & Corporal Greg Thomas
Law & Crime Network

9
1:16:46NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Trial Day 3 Witnesses: Todd Buettner, Det Sgt Carla Perez, Wesley Zackery Jr & David
Law & Crime Network

10
47:54NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Trial Day 3 Witnesses: Mariel Battle, Judge Takes Care of Juror Issue
Law & Crime Network

11
1:03:25NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Trial Day 3 Witnesses Petra Henry, Jessica Gilbert, Christina Chiodi & Gale Berghorn
Law & Crime Network

12
1:14:49NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Trial Day 3 Witnesses: Gale Berghorn, Lacey Zacher & Det Sgt Samuel Portalatin
Law & Crime Network

13
1:39:43NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Trial Day 4 Witnesses: Kimberly Sutton - DNA Analyst, School Roommate & Connie Bell
Law & Crime Network

14
1:44:19NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Trial Day 4 Witness: Retired Detective Mitchell Messer Jr.
Law & Crime Network

15
1:41:51NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Trial Day 5 Witness: Joseph Carey - Defendant's Brother Part 1
Law & Crime Network

16
26:04NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Trial Day 5 Witness: Joseph Carey - Defendant's Brother Part 2
Law & Crime Network

17
1:23:41NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Trial Day 5 Witnesses: Alaina Roe, Ronald Nachtman & Laura Hessemer
Law & Crime Network

18
1:14:45NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Trial Day 5 Witness Angelica Henwood & George Lehr
Law & Crime Network

19
59:06NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Trial Day 5 Witness Eric Lehr
Law & Crime Network

20
2:03:46NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Trial Day 6 Witnesses: Eric Lehr Part 2 & Dr Kathleen Heidi
Law & Crime Network

21
55:37NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Trial Day 6 Witness: Dr Kathleen Heidi Part 2
Law & Crime Network

22
1:17:50NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Trial Day 6 Witnesses Dr Kathleen Heidi Part 3
Law & Crime Network

23
1:13:10NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Trial Day 6 Witnesses Dr Kathleen Heidi Part 4 & Dr Charles Ewing Part 1
Law & Crime Network

24
26:44NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Trial Day 6 Witness Dr Charles Ewing Part 2
Law & Crime Network

25
1:24:28NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Trial Day 7 Witness Dr Charles Ewing Part 3
Law & Crime Network

26
1:09:10NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Trial Day 7 Witness Dr Charles Ewing Part 4
Law & Crime Network

27
59:02NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Trial Day 7 Witnesses: Dr Charles Ewing Part 5 , David Lehr & Ronald Nachtman
Law & Crime Network

28
1:09:35NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Trial Day 7 Witness: Dr. Emily Lazarou - Psychiatrist Part 1
Law & Crime Network

29
51:49NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Trial Day 7 Witness: Dr. Emily Lazarou - Psychiatrist Part 2
Law & Crime Network

30
1:41:47NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Trial Day 7 Witness: Dr Emily Lazarou - Psychiatrist Part 3
Law & Crime Network

31
36:29NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Prosecution Closing Argument
Law & Crime Network

32
1:08:11NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Defense Closing Argument
Law & Crime Network

33
48:25NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Prosecution Rebuttal Closing Argument
Law & Crime Network

34
47:53NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Trial Jury Instructions
Law & Crime Network

35
8:09NOW PLAYING
Nicole Nachtman Trial Verdict & Sentencing 08/02/19
Law & Crime Network