Found Deceased FL - Tammy Alexander, 16, Brooksville, 8 Nov 1979

[Roselvr]

I didn't ask, and she didn't offer. I've had issues in the past with someone saying they want to see a postmortem photo, and then they get upset at me when I show it to them. So now, I stay away from that topic when dealing with family/friends and PM photos.

I sent her a PM to see how she's doing. I also let her know where to find them if she wants to look. Cali's are not bad; she looks like she's sleeping

 

[sloane7777]

Thank you ROSE and CARL! I must be one odd cookie, I have seen lots of people dead and a few accidents etc , it just dosen't bother me , I mean we live we die we eat we sleep, I guess I just dont have a problem seeing people how they are but I see alot of people wont look , I just cant help but find that strange, do I need to see someone about this?:waitasec:

 

[LucyOso]

Of topic...I do see several people suddenly submitting or wanting to submit Tammy Jo for a lot of UID's in the forums. My hope is, we can run DNA and not swamp LE with potentials...Doesn't look good for us WSer's if we inundate LE with every UID from the 1970's and 1980's regardless of true similarity. A new/old missing person is exciting (in a sad way) and gives us hope some UID will go home/be named, but let's proceed with the same diligence as before. I am sure CarlK is monitoring...I hope. IMOO.

 

[CarlK90245]

Just adding a bit of info that I learned today.

Tammy is being looked at by the Hernando County Sheriff's as a possible match to the two skeletal Jane Does found in serial murderer Billy Mansfield's property in Weeki Wachee Florida.

One of the two is discussed on this thread:

FL - Weeki Wachee, WhtFem UP12589, 20-30, 1 of 2 Buried w/2 ID'd Victims, Mar'81



Their interest in her case was in the context of that case. Apparently, there is some indication that Tammy knew the Mansfield brothers because they were frequent visitors to her parents' truckstop.

The problem with that theory is that both Jane Does are estimated to be between 20 and 30, and one of them had spina bifida.

 

[Roselvr]

Of topic...I do see several people suddenly submitting or wanting to submit Tammy Jo for a lot of UID's in the forums. My hope is, we can run DNA and not swamp LE with potentials...Doesn't look good for us WSer's if we inundate LE with every UID from the 1970's and 1980's regardless of true similarity. A new/old missing person is exciting (in a sad way) and gives us hope some UID will go home/be named, but let's proceed with the same diligence as before. I am sure CarlK is monitoring...I hope. IMOO.

That's what I was getting at yesterday. I do worry that people from WS will submit as many UP's as they can find which will not be beneficial to any of us. In early 2013 I entered an MP in NamUs. The case worker asked how I started doing this; told her that I follow a few JD cases here. It then took me many emails to make her see that I care about the missing and unidentified persons and the last thing I want to do is add more stress to a family. The families I have worked with will agree that I am a help to them.

Tammy's sisters DNA will be processed; I assume run through the systems; especially if as Carl says she is thought to be one of 2 Jane Does found in Mansfield's yard. I assume the DNA would be in CODIS since she was a victim of a crime. I do not doubt that LE are going through their systems to see if she is a potential match to other Jane Does.

Just adding a bit of info that I learned today.

Tammy is being looked at by the Hernando County Sheriff's as a possible match to the two skeletal Jane Does found in serial murderer Billy Mansfield's property in Weeki Wachee Florida.

One of the two is discussed on this thread:

FL - Weeki Wachee, WhtFem UP12589, 20-30, 1 of 2 Buried w/2 ID'd Victims, Mar'81



Their interest in her case was in the context of that case. Apparently, there is some indication that Tammy knew the Mansfield brothers because they were frequent visitors to her parents' truckstop.

The problem with that theory is that both Jane Does are estimated to be between 20 and 30, and one of them had spina bifida.

Spina bifida occulta (partial) on the 4th and 5th sacral elements according to the post you linked to. I can tell you that it's also called Occult tethered cord; which I have that has gone undiagnosed all of my life. I had typical symptoms of "growing pains"; my legs used to give out on me while walking up stairs. By the time I was a teen Tammy's age; it did not bother me until I was in my 30's. Think restless leg; bugs biting or crawling on your legs.

I don't know if he killed Tammy. According to what I'm reading on Murderpedia, he served a year in MI; paroled March 1980. they think his father killed one that was ID'd. I guess it's possible his father killed Tammy too if she turns out to be Tammy. Pretty sure Laurel said they have her school records; so have an idea of when she went missing

 

[LucyOso]

That's what I was getting at yesterday. I do worry that people from WS will submit as many UP's as they can find which will not be beneficial to any of us. In early 2013 I entered an MP in NamUs. The case worker asked how I started doing this; told her that I follow a few JD cases here. It then took me many emails to make her see that I care about the missing and unidentified persons and the last thing I want to do is add more stress to a family. The families I have worked with will agree that I am a help to them.

Respectfully snipped and BBM. I agree totally Rose. Many longtime WSer's (not me though) have spent years and years establishing relationships with LE. It is very important we maintain those relationships. While many of us would love to "get a match under our belt", it is more important we focus on why we came here. That being, to see the unidentified can go home and have names. As many have been missing or UID's for 20-30-40 years, a few weeks or a month to process DNA won't harm anyone. I just see a PR nightmare here when we start getting new missing persons information and we stop discriminating about who we submit. I think, and maybe I am wrong, when we want to submit it would be best to run it by CarlK or another mod prior to doing so. Mainly, as I said, because those established relationship are crucial. Many of our Post-Mortems that help us identify are NOT publicly available. Many come from hard work of WSer working with LE. Let's keep those relationships. IMOO.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

The DNA will not be in CODIS, unless Tammy's sister signs a consent allowing them to put it in CODIS. Many people really do not understand, but when you give DNA as a family member of a missing person, there are different consents you can sign. They can not just take Pamela's DNA and run it wherever they want to. She can either sign a consent to: (1) Have her DNA compared to a UP in a specific case only (2) Have her DNA used in NAMUS and only compared to Ups listed there (3) Have your DNA listed in NAMUS and CODIS.
They can not just run a MPs family members DNA sample through anything until consent is given. A family member of a missing person has committed no crime, so what is done with their DNA is completely up to them. They can elect to allow NAMUS to keep it, or not.

I do agree that we need to be careful not to overwhelm Tammy's sister, or LE with numerous requests for comparisons right off. These comparisons are much harder for family members than most people understand. It is a never ending emotional roller coaster, so we need to wait for the requests already out there to be processed, before submitting more....IMO.

 

[CarlK90245]

If he was in Michigan prison in March 79, then she wouldn't be one of his victims. In a second conversation with Tammy's friend, she said she found a postcard dated March 15, 1979 that was sent while she and Tammy were on their road trip to California. That indicates that they were on the road in mid-March 1979, and not Christmas 1978, as she had previously estimated.

But as SSA indicated above, she might be a victim of Mansfield's father.

But the estimated age of the two Weeki Wachee victims would seem to be inconsistent with Tammy.

 

[LucyOso]

The DNA will not be in CODIS, unless Tammy's sister signs a consent allowing them to put it in CODIS. Many people really do not understand, but when you give DNA as a family member of a missing person, there are different consents you can sign. They can not just take Pamela's DNA and run it wherever they want to. She can either sign a consent to: (1) Have her DNA compared to a UP in a specific case only (2) Have her DNA used in NAMUS and only compared to Ups listed there (3) Have your DNA listed in NAMUS and CODIS.
They can not just run someone's DNA sample through anything until consent is given.

Thanks Still! It is my hope, and maybe someone who has contact with the family can discuss it that they can get the consent to run it through CODIS/Namus. If Tammy was my sister, I would rather just have it run instead of dealing with the ups and downs of submissions. IMOO. Obviously, I have a lot to learn..

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

Thanks Still! It is my hope, and maybe someone who has contact with the family can discuss it that they can get the consent to run it through CODIS/Namus. If Tammy was my sister, I would rather just have it run instead of dealing with the ups and downs of submissions. IMOO. Obviously, I have a lot to learn..

I honestly can't say which is more upsetting, and which way rips your heart out more. If you only allow one on one comparisons, then you deal with the submits one at a time, which is heartbreaking. If you give it to CODIS, you wait and wonder ever day, which is equally hard and heartbreaking.

 

[sevengirl]

I withdraw my suggestion that Tammy may be Walker County Jane Doe. Please forget I mentioned it. I would delete my post but it doesn't give me that option.

 

[Roselvr]

The DNA will not be in CODIS, unless Tammy's sister signs a consent allowing them to put it in CODIS. Many people really do not understand, but when you give DNA as a family member of a missing person, there are different consents you can sign. They can not just take Pamela's DNA and run it wherever they want to. She can either sign a consent to: (1) Have her DNA compared to a UP in a specific case only (2) Have her DNA used in NAMUS and only compared to Ups listed there (3) Have your DNA listed in NAMUS and CODIS.
They can not just run a MPs family members DNA sample through anything until consent is given. A family member of a missing person has committed no crime, so what is done with their DNA is completely up to them. They can elect to allow NAMUS to keep it, or not.

I do agree that we need to be careful not to overwhelm Tammy's sister, or LE with numerous requests for comparisons right off. These comparisons are much harder for family members than most people understand. It is a never ending emotional roller coaster, so we need to wait for the requests already out there to be processed, before submitting more....IMO.

Yeah & I surely know better then to assume she would sign for both databases. I shouldn't reply when I'm rushed

If he was in Michigan prison in March 79, then she wouldn't be one of his victims. In a second conversation with Tammy's friend, she said she found a postcard dated March 15, 1979 that was sent while she and Tammy were on their road trip to California. That indicates that they were on the road in mid-March 1979, and not Christmas 1978, as she had previously estimated.

But as SSA indicated above, she might be a victim of Mansfield's father.

But the estimated age of the two Weeki Wachee victims would seem to be inconsistent with Tammy.

Go have some coffee Carl. lol

I don't know if he killed Tammy. According to what I'm reading on Murderpedia, he served a year in MI; paroled March 1980. they think his father killed one that was ID'd. I guess it's possible his father killed Tammy too if she turns out to be Tammy. Pretty sure Laurel said they have her school records; so have an idea of when she went missing

 

[Sleuthster]

Just adding a bit of info that I learned today.

Tammy is being looked at by the Hernando County Sheriff's as a possible match to the two skeletal Jane Does found in serial murderer Billy Mansfield's property in Weeki Wachee Florida.

One of the two is discussed on this thread:

FL - Weeki Wachee, WhtFem UP12589, 20-30, 1 of 2 Buried w/2 ID'd Victims, Mar'81



Their interest in her case was in the context of that case. Apparently, there is some indication that Tammy knew the Mansfield brothers because they were frequent visitors to her parents' truckstop.

The problem with that theory is that both Jane Does are estimated to be between 20 and 30, and one of them had spina bifida.

It is a possibility that one is Tammy Alexander but I've been waiting for rule outs because I have a strong feeling that one is Patty Action. It was called in by another member who said LE was looking at her as one but I don't see any rule outs on either doe.

Did you talk to LE in Hernando? Are they checking dna on all these possible matches?

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

I think both of the Mansfield UIDs are to old to be Tammy. I only explained to Carl about Florida LE asking for Tammy sister to give DNA for a comparison to them, because it explains why Tammys case suddenly popped up out of nowhere. If she has signed the consent for NAMUS to store her DNA profile, or if she agreed to allow CODIS to store it, then she will not be notified of future comparisons, unless there is a match. Given the length of time that has elapsed since her DNA was first taken, I would say we should have that answer anyday.

 

[sloane7777]

Rose did your "person" look at the post mortem , I would think she would be able to tell Gah! waiting is the hardest part, and now I will have that song stuck in thy melon all day!

 

[CarlK90245]

Rose did your "person" look at the post mortem , I would think she would be able to tell Gah! waiting is the hardest part, and now I will have that song stuck in thy melon all day!

Her sister and cousins have said that they are not sure.

We're going to have to wait for DNA.

 

[sloane7777]

CarlK you have the patience of a saint (or you hide it well) Ive bitten all the nails lol Now Ive moved on to twisting hair, I just know you are right though, you guys are amazing and if its not her, I will eat my shoe!

 

[Roselvr]

CarlK you have the patience of a saint (or you hide it well) Ive bitten all the nails lol Now Ive moved on to twisting hair, I just know you are right though, you guys are amazing and if its not her, I will eat my shoe!

I'm glad someone is confident because I go back & forth. My hesitation is I have seen a lot of good/great visual matches that did not turn out. All I know is this better not take 2 months!

 

[sloane7777]

I'm glad someone is confident because I go back & forth. My hesitation is I have seen a lot of good/great visual matches that did not turn out. All I know is this better not take 2 months!

Im more confident because it lines up so well,
1. no one has claimed Cali (Tammy jo"s mom said leave her where ever")
2. hitching with truck drivers ( Tammys friend said that what they did)
3. Tan lines & Hair Frost ( Tammy is from the southern US )
4. she just plain looks like her to me

 

[CarlK90245]

Im more confident because it lines up so well,
1. no one has claimed Cali (Tammy jo"s mom said leave her where ever")
2. hitching with truck drivers ( Tammys friend said that what they did)
3. Tan lines & Hair Frost ( Tammy is from the southern US )
4. she just plain looks like her to me

I'm glad someone is confident because I go back & forth. My hesitation is I have seen a lot of good/great visual matches that did not turn out. All I know is this better not take 2 months!

Like Roselvr, I am back and forth on this. The big source of doubt lies in her height. Tammy's half-sister says she was relatively tall - about 5'5" to 5'6". Tammy's friend says she was "short". But then again, Tammy's friend is very tall, so Tammy would be short relative to her friend.

Cali is listed as only 5'3".