GUILTY FL - Tiffany Eunick, 6, beaten to death, Pembroke Park, 28 July 1999

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deputylinda said:
Lionel was not competent at his age to decide on plea. the judge will ajudicate a juvie as an adult if severity of crime warrants it. his mom flat out refused to deal with DA and lionel would have been free at 18 if she had...a small price to pay for killing the little girl. in fact, i hold the mother partially responsible for criminal negligence at the very least. she was "adult" in the house. the whole case was fraught with problems, and lionel got more than a fair deal when he was freed. :twocents:
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Thats my whole point...how can we say a 12 year old is not competent to decide on a plea...then turn around and say he is able to think like an adult, and be treated like an adult when it comes to a trial? IMO until we give the 12 year old the full right to decide on his defense, he should not be able to be tried as an adult.
 
i know it appears unreasonable/contradictory...the reason behind it is that it would have been unfair to think that he could have understood the consequences of sophisticated legal manuvering. however, other side of the coin is that a child can kill you just as dead as an adult. that's it in a nutshell, and there is much worthy debate on the subject down in fla.
 
the reason behind it is that it would have been unfair to think that he could have understood the consequences of sophisticated legal manuvering


Exactly...so when he was convicted and sentenced to LWOP...they expected him to understand? I understand a child can kill as easily as an adult. All Im saying is, we either treat them as adults, or as children, not both. If the court wants to say a 12 year olf can be tried and punished as an adult, then the 12 year old should be treated as an adult in all ways.
 
I think what bothered/bothers me so much about this is Linonel's family seemed so unwilling to take ANY responsibilty.

I understand his low I.Q etc but a death did occur and it seemed his mother felt he (and she) should get a 'free pass' because of that(she shouldve,imo,beared SOME responsibilty as she was not supervising the children) .
I don't think LWOP was an answer but there should have been some consequences.

It's obvious the mother doesn't feel that way and Lionel's latest troubles bear that out as you'd think she'd be supervising him closely ESP. if his capacity is supposedly so limited.

I don't think this latest run in will be his last.


Sad..........
 
I just read the article of his arrest for violating his probation. Again, this kids IQ and ability to understand seems to present itself.

A criminal who is "smart" wouldn't have a knife on him.

Personally, I couldn't give a hoot if he had a knife on him. But, if he could "comprehend" that knife would send him to prison, I can't imagine he would have it on him.

And, I think it shouln't go unnoticed, this kid was stopped by police because he was "running" and out of breath?

Also, what is mom doing to constantly review the terms of probation with the kid?

I constantly remind my kiddos what's allowed on school grounds, etc. So they don't inadvertently run into trouble.

I'm feeling real bad for this kid. He just doesn't get it. That doesn't make him "evil" just stupid.

I can't comprehend the disassociation that caused him to not consider the little girl. But, I would say two things, 1) boys at that age don't seem to think about others quite the same as girls do. That's not to say they are uncaring or unfeeling, just busy thinking about other things. 2) I knew a little boy who was 4 years old, he did nothing but play donkey kong all day long (and mario brothers) he came out of his room, when mom forced him to go play with the neighbor hood kids (unsupervised, btw) and this kid brought out a hammer and bonked another 4 yo on the head! Knocked him clean out! The kid went to the hospital. The boy who hit him, just did in real life what he did on the video game for hours. Can you say "numb" and "disassociation"? The boys mom, refused to believe that her son did this. this wasn't the only thing he did like that. His behavior constantly mimicked these games, whenever he was made to go outside.

If Tate comprehended at 12 in a similar fashion as this 4 yo boy, I'm not surprised at what he did. Just so sad that the values of our culture are so focused on tv and games and not family discussions at the table etc.

I pitched the tv as my children wanted to be addicted to it. Someone in our neighborhood "felt sorry" for my kids because they had no video games, so they gave them nintendo for Christmas-imagine their shock when I had my children return it!

Kids in the neighborhood like it here because we play volleyball, badminton, croquet in the yard. The kids like to play with our chickens (they learn to care for creatures). They like to bbq here. This, to me is what families, and neighborhoods should do to develop loving skills. And thought provoking? Dinnertime discussions!

My Very Opinionated thoughts on the subject!

Fran
 
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,157468,00.html




PEMBROKE PARK, Fla. — Lionel Tate (search), the youngest person in modern U.S. history to be sentenced to life in prison (search), has been arrested after a pizza delivery man said the teenager pointed a gun at him.

Tate, now 18, was being held early Tuesday at the Broward County Jail (search) on charges of armed robbery and armed burglary with battery. He was serving probation following his release on a guilty plea to second-degree murder in the beating death of a 6-year-old family friend when he was 12..............

This is ,I think,the 3rd time since he got out he was in trouble.

His Mother,imo,shouldve been held respoinsible the 1st time(Ms."Sleeping Upstairs and Couldnt Hear A Child Being Murdered") as well as Lionel and he he is AGAIN!!!
Youd think his MOther would be appreciative that he was released and do everything in her power(basic supervision,therapy etc) to keep him on the straight and narrow.

I am torn about the issue of children being tried as adults but his crime was no accident and imo he got out of his punishment.Him getting out and continuing to get into trouble REALLY irks me!!!!!!!!!!!
 
messiecake said:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,157468,00.html




PEMBROKE PARK, Fla. — Lionel Tate (search), the youngest person in modern U.S. history to be sentenced to life in prison (search), has been arrested after a pizza delivery man said the teenager pointed a gun at him.

Tate, now 18, was being held early Tuesday at the Broward County Jail (search) on charges of armed robbery and armed burglary with battery. He was serving probation following his release on a guilty plea to second-degree murder in the beating death of a 6-year-old family friend when he was 12..............

This is ,I think,the 3rd time since he got out he was in trouble.

His Mother,imo,shouldve been held respoinsible the 1st time(Ms."Sleeping Upstairs and Couldnt Hear A Child Being Murdered") as well as Lionel and he he is AGAIN!!!
Youd think his MOther would be appreciative that he was released and do everything in her power(basic supervision,therapy etc) to keep him on the straight and narrow.

I am torn about the issue of children being tried as adults but his crime was no accident and imo he got out of his punishment.Him getting out and continuing to get into trouble REALLY irks me!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

ITA!! He has some serious agression issues to be able to have brutalized Tiffany the way he did. I read that this is at least the second time he's been in trouble since his release, and that the last time his probation was extended and he was told that if he violated again, he would definitely go to prison. I hope they follow through on that.
 
LadyGraffix@mac.com said:
ITA!! He has some serious agression issues to be able to have brutalized Tiffany the way he did. I read that this is at least the second time he's been in trouble since his release, and that the last time his probation was extended and he was told that if he violated again, he would definitely go to prison. I hope they follow through on that.
Click to expand...

There is a thread here discussing the previous criminal acts:

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12444&highlight=Lionel+Tate
 
Lionel Tate, who at 12 faced life in prison for murdering a playmate, may have squandered his freedom for four 14-inch pizzas.

The bill for the pies -- pepperoni and sausage, extra cheese, pineapple, and ham -- came to $33.60, according to a Domino's Pizza receipt.

Police say Tate placed the order from his 12-year-old friend's apartment Monday afternoon and forced his way back inside just before the pizza arrived, roughing up the boy before robbing the deliveryman with a .38-caliber revolver.

No one was seriously hurt and nothing was taken except for the pizzas, which the deliveryman dropped while tumbling down the stairs as he tried to get away.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/lo...may25,0,541958.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines
 
I was against him serving a life sentence, but thought he needed to be watched and watched closely. I wonder how much of this would have happened anyway and how much of it is a product of his serving time in jail at such a young age?
 
Tate's attorney, Jim Lewis, said he met with his client at the jail Tuesday afternoon.

''I think they got the wrong guy,'' Lewis said.

``Lionel told me he did not do this. He told me he did not rob the pizza man or assault the 13-year-old. He said he got there when it was all over.''

Lewis said witnesses described the robber as someone wearing a different outfit, but said detectives homed in on Tate.

''If he did do this, he will go to prison for a long time,'' Lewis said.

Tate's mother, Kathleen Grossett-Tate, told The Herald Tuesday night that her son was innocent and that she would stand by him.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/local/states/florida/counties/broward_county/11729664.htm
 
Jeana (DP) said:
I was against him serving a life sentence, but thought he needed to be watched and watched closely. I wonder how much of this would have happened anyway and how much of it is a product of his serving time in jail at such a young age?
Click to expand...


He had problems lonnngggg before his (brief imo) jail stint.He was also in a juvie facility during his incarceration.

His problems come from his Mother who doesn't care about her son until he's in trouble.
Its her job to get him therapy and Ill bet you that hasnt happened.
 
messiecake said:
He had problems lonnngggg before his (brief imo) jail stint.He was also in a juvie facility during his incarceration.

His problems come from his Mother who doesn't care about her son until he's in trouble.
Its her job to get him therapy and Ill bet you that hasnt happened.
Click to expand...

Actually, she refused to allow him therapy, just as she refused a plea deal. She does the bargaining...he pays the price.
 
http://www.nbc6.net/news/4529734/de...tml=ami_8pm&tmi=ami_8pm_1_07000105252005&ts=H

Local News

Judge Denies Bond For Lionel Tate
Young Man Imprisoned For Killing 6-Year-Old Is Back In Court

POSTED: 10:24 am EDT May 25, 2005
UPDATED: 6:47 pm EDT May 25, 2005

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. -- A lawyer for Lionel Tate raised doubts Wednesday about the armed robbery case against the young man, who faces a long prison sentence if a judge finds that he violated probation given in the 1999 killing of a 6-year-old girl.

Lionel Tate in bond court.

Attorney James Lewis said at a brief court hearing that the pizza delivery man who was robbed at gunpoint Monday described his assailant as wearing "totally different" clothes than those worn by Tate, who was once the youngest person sentenced to life in prison in modern U.S. history until his original conviction was overturned.

The victim also said the robber was wearing a bandanna that obscured the lower part of his face, the attorney said.

"I think there's been a mistake made," Lewis said. "I think there's been a rush to judgment."

Broward County Judge Jerry Pollock overruled Lewis' objections and ordered Tate held without bond pending a hearing on whether he violated terms of his probation. Tate appeared at the brief hearing via video hookup from jail but did not speak.

Police have not found the weapon allegedly used in the robbery, but the Broward County Sheriff's Office issued a statement Wednesday that a search of Tate's home had revealed that three handguns are missing. Tate's mother, Kathleen Grossett-Tate, is a Florida Highway Patrol trooper.


* * *
 
Broward Sheriff's detectives think that the gun they say Lionel Tate pointed at a pizza deliveryman was one of three weapons that belong to his mother, a Florida Highway Patrol trooper, who reported them missing after the holdup.

The FHP has launched an internal affairs investigation into how Kathleen Grossett-Tate's service weapon and the two other guns disappeared. The agency requires officers to keep their weapons secured in the trunk of their patrol cars or, preferably, in a locked container in their homes.

Grossett-Tate, who is on military leave, said Wednesday she was not ready to discuss the case, calling the internal affairs investigation "normal procedure."

Asked how she felt about her son's predicament, she said: "It's the same way any mother would feel. I'm just not ready to talk about it yet."

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/lo...ay26,0,4417770.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines
 
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