FLDS - The Children

[SweetPea2]

Shortened for space:

Warning, this may make you sick....

no wonder that the children in Texas could not identify their true parents.
http://www.correntewire.com/flds_stealing_the_schools_money_changing_texas_laws

It made me :furious::furious::furious::furious: These people are truly SICK! They are doing far more damage to their children than any "outsider" could do :furious::furious::furious::furious:

 

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

I just read online the comments noted above that 41 kids may currently or previously had broken bones. My initial reaction was thank goodness we removed the kids. Then it occurred to me that that is 10% of the kids. I think that if we go to the general public, the percentage of kids that have ever broken a bone would be higher. I actually agree with the FLDS that this fact is being mentioned in a political fashion against the FLDS. If the broken bones are from accidents and not abuse AND if they were treated propperly and followed up on, then that statistic itself doesn't worry me. That number alone doesn't provide enough information to decide one way or the other whether there was abuse going on - in the form of broken bones that is.

My opinion.

 

[Floh]

Texas officials looking at possible abuse among FLDS boys



AUSTIN, Texas - Texas officials have told legislators they're looking at the possible sexual abuse of some young boys taken from the polygamist sect's ranch.

In a written update provided to lawmakers Wednesday, the state Child Protective Services division says it is looking into possible sexual abuse of boys based on interviews and journal entries.
The agency provided no other details.
Earlier, Commissioner Carey Cockerell — in charge of the umbrella Department of Family and Protective Services — told lawmakers 41 children have evidence of broken bones.
The disclosures are the first suggestions that anyone other than teen girls may have been physically or sexually abused. The state has custody of 464 children taking from the Yearning For Zion Ranch in the west Texas prairie town of Eldorado, including a baby born to a teen mother Tuesday.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080430/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat

Journal entries? whose journal entries, i'm pondering?

if these boys have been sexually abused and someone recorded the abuse in a journal, i don't know what to think as to why! :furious:

and all the girls too . . . :furious:

the broken bones . . . what a horrible life for children raised in this culture!

 

[Pepper]

I just read online the comments noted above that 41 kids may currently or previously had broken bones. My initial reaction was thank goodness we removed the kids. Then it occurred to me that that is 10% of the kids. I think that if we go to the general public, the percentage of kids that have ever broken a bone would be higher. I actually agree with the FLDS that this fact is being mentioned in a political fashion against the FLDS. If the broken bones are from accidents and not abuse AND if they were treated propperly and followed up on, then that statistic itself doesn't worry me. That number alone doesn't provide enough information to decide one way or the other whether there was abuse going on - in the form of broken bones that is.

My opinion.

Are these 41 kids girls or boys?

 

[Floh]

I just read online the comments noted above that 41 kids may currently or previously had broken bones. My initial reaction was thank goodness we removed the kids. Then it occurred to me that that is 10% of the kids. I think that if we go to the general public, the percentage of kids that have ever broken a bone would be higher. I actually agree with the FLDS that this fact is being mentioned in a political fashion against the FLDS. If the broken bones are from accidents and not abuse AND if they were treated propperly and followed up on, then that statistic itself doesn't worry me. That number alone doesn't provide enough information to decide one way or the other whether there was abuse going on - in the form of broken bones that is.

My opinion.

It crossed my mind about the broken bones and children having accidents — can experts tell if bones have been broken from abuse or accident?

 

[FlowerChild]

UNLESS they x-rayed all 463 kids, they are saying that 41 kids have CURRENT OUTWARD EVIDENCE of broken bones. That would NOT INCLUDE broken bones that did not present externally or weren't recent. Every child there could have had a prior broken bone and only the 41 who had SEVERE injuries or broke a bone in the last 8 weeks would show evidence in a cursory exam.

I would wager that there are MORE CHILDREN with healed injuries - and if CPS can prove there is a systematic problem with small children having broken bones currently, perhaps they will be able to do some tests on ALL the children to see if there are more with healed injuries or repetitive injuries from physical abuse. You must show cause to examine all the children - and that is what they are doing. Yes, 41 kids with broken bones is not alarming if it's OVERALL, but I'm betting its more like 41 kids who show evidence of having broken bones in the last 8 weeks - or bones broken that could not have come from an expected childhood accident. And remember, these kids don't have swings, slides, monkey bars, skateboards, bicycles or playgrounds...exactly what were they doing that they broke a bone?

I think this information may just be the TIP of the iceburg - perhaps "training" isn't just verbal at the FLDS??

Oh and now possible sexual abuse of the BOYS? Is that part of the "training" too? What's the FLDS rationale for THAT if it proves to be true? Some religious ceremony? Those disobedient boys did it to each other and that's why we have to kick so many out perhaps? Or maybe one of the boys that was recently abandoned/kicked out did it?

SEXUALLY ABUSING CHILDREN is (I think) a way of life in the FLDS and that systemized, learned sort of perversion never seems to be limited to just BOYS or just GIRLS. The FLDS I think condones abuse of ALL the children - abuse of all kinds! They have been perpetuating this way of life for 100 years...it's pretty entrenched by now and I believe it goes to the CORE. If we don't get the kids out at birth, this is never going to be stopped - its a way of life JUSTIFIED by a made-up religion and IMO, IT MUST BE ENDED and the ground salted so it can never spring forth alive again. It would be like saying pedophiles could sexually abuse children because they had been doing it for 100 years and they made up a religion that REQUIRES it. Religion has NO PART IN THIS - take that away and it's plain old garden variety ABUSE and PERVERTED SICKNESS by a group of people that live communally - live communally perhaps for the PURPOSE of having MANY CHILDREN and hiding and facilitating ABUSE OF THOSE SAME CHILDREN.

My opinion

 

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

Here is the link that i am reading. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080430/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat

The first quote from the article seems to be somebodies snippet from the report. It seems to be written in a manner to create outrage over the situation. The second quote clarifies that the broken bones are not current.

"Earlier, the department's commissioner, Carey Cockerell, told lawmakers that at least 41 children, some of them "very young," have evidence of broken bones"


"Although Cockerell didn't elaborate on the broken bones, a report by his department's Child Protective Services division said medical exams and interviews indicated 'that at least 41 children have had broken bones in the past.'"

 

[Peculiar Petunia]

41 out of the whole group isn't alarming, but 41 out of the 5-and-unders would be, in my opinion. I'd like to know from the media how many have been examined.

 

[FlowerChild]

Carey Cockerell, told lawmakers that at least 41 children, some of them "very young," have evidence of broken bones. The state has custody of 464 children from the Yearning For Zion Ranch in the west Texas prairie town of Eldorado, including a baby born to a teen mother Tuesday.
Although Cockerell didn't elaborate on the broken bones, a report by his department's Child Protective Services division said medical exams and interviews indicated "that at least 41 children have had broken bones in the past."
"We do not have X-rays or complete medical information on many children so it is too early to draw any conclusions based on this information, but it is cause for concern and something we'll continue to examine," the CPS report said.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080430/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat_37

 

[froggierintexas]

Hi just wanted to let everyone know that the city here is starting a Garden for the children so they can grow organic produce. They said the children have expressed interest in having a garden and in helping in the garden, so they(the adult workers) have already begun tilling up dirt. And The Ark here (where some of the FLDS children are) has animal therapy too. So they will be able to be around some nature and play with the animals.

They had to turn away donations of actual items because of the items not being appropriate for their use. So they are urging our residents to give cash instead so that they may purchase items the children normally use.

The children are said to be doing well and The Ark Staff is making adjustments in their normal procedures so they children are more at peace.

The youngest one here is 2 months and her mother is a teen and is with her.

 

[FlowerChild]

Hi just wanted to let everyone know that the city here is starting a Garden for the children so they can grow organic produce. They said the children have expressed interest in having a garden and in helping in the garden, so they(the adult workers) have already begun tilling up dirt. And The Ark here (where some of the FLDS children are) has animal therapy too. So they will be able to be around some nature and play with the animals.

They had to turn away donations of actual items because of the items not being appropriate for their use. So they are urging our residents to give cash instead so that they may purchase items the children normally use.

The children are said to be doing well and The Ark Staff is making adjustments in their normal procedures so they children are more at peace.

The youngest one here is 2 months and her mother is a teen and is with her.

It will be so nice for the children to have the animals since Warren Jeffs FORBID pets in the FLDS and regularly ordered all pets killed. (IMO Warren Jeffs has no regard for any life except HIS OWN and he's trying to raise his very own FLDS Certified sociopaths) At least in THIS CASE the children will learn they can TRUST that no-one is going to appear and shoot all the pets on a whim. It will teach the children they can TRUST the adults there in a way just TELLING them can't do. The kids will SEE that Warren Jeffs isn't all powerful and has no control over them any more - and that outside the FLDS, the "rules" from there mean NOTHING.

Give the kids a garden - but make sure there are bees and butterflies and sweet smelling FLOWERS and beautiful things in it - not just vegetables. Make sure it's a peaceful place for children's hearts to heal, and NOT just a place for WORK or FOOD. I fear these little souls have been "trained" out of childhood joys far too young and they need to be carefree and laugh and play and see the ocean and pet a dog (or a cat) and watch a green catepillar become an orange butterfly and fly away into the big beautiful world outside the garden.

My Opinion

 

[mysteriew]

Not having actual details of the broken bones, it is hard to tell. And no, 41 out of 400 doesn't seem like many. But a lot of factors will be looked at.

Were the broken bones treated and set by a licensed physician?

The age of the child. A child less than a year old it is rather unusual.

The type of break. A greenstick fracture for instance will happen when a child's extremity is twisted, and no other way.

The story of how the bone was broken. A child who refuses to say how they broke their bone or says they don't remember, a child who says that someone (adult) broke the bone. Or if the injury doesn't match the story.

Also, 41 out of how many children x-rayed? If it is 41 out of 41, then I would say it is reason for concern.

So while 41 broken bones itself doesn't seem alarming, I am going to withhold judgement until more is known.

 

[biggirl]

It will be so nice for the children to have the animals since Warren Jeffs FORBID pets in the FLDS and regularly ordered all pets killed. (IMO Warren Jeffs has no regard for any life except HIS OWN and he's trying to raise his very own FLDS Certified sociopaths) At least in THIS CASE the children will learn they can TRUST that no-one is going to appear and shoot all the pets on a whim. It will teach the children they can TRUST the adults there in a way just TELLING them can't do. The kids will SEE that Warren Jeffs isn't all powerful and has no control over them any more - and that outside the FLDS, the "rules" from there mean NOTHING.

Give the kids a garden - but make sure there are bees and butterflies and sweet smelling FLOWERS and beautiful things in it - not just vegetables. Make sure it's a peaceful place for children's hearts to heal, and NOT just a place for WORK or FOOD. I fear these little souls have been "trained" out of childhood joys far too young and they need to be carefree and laugh and play and see the ocean and pet a dog (or a cat) and watch a green catepillar become an orange butterfly and fly away into the big beautiful world outside the garden.

My Opinion

Take away all the allegations of sexual abuse and abandonment and control and the only thing I had to hear is that he made them kill their dogs and I knew he was evil through and through. (then you can put back in the other issues and it just confirms it):furious:

 

[Leila]

Nancy Grace - 04-30-08:

Nancy Grace had Dr. McCarrey from John Hopkins Hospital, who says 41 children with evidence of broken bones is very high! He said national statistics say 4 cases of broken bones per thousand is normal. Edited to add that the FLDS response was that it was a case of brittle bones.

The local reporter in Texas stated that CPS observed the FLDS mothers who initially came with the children when they removed the children beginning on April 4th. Beginning at the compound, CPS put plastic bracelets on each child with their name and age.

The FLDS mothers were observed and they systematically tore the bracelets off; swapped the bracelets between children; and blacked out the names on the bracelets!
:furious:

In regards to the abuse of boys, the reporter in Texas says that when CPS went into the YFZ compound they went to the boys classroom (boys segregated from girls) and found journals. Those journals were among the items seized. The reporter said the information regarding abuse of the boys is coming from the journals and also from the boys who are being interviewed.

 

[mysteriew]

Nancy Grace - 04-30-08:

Nancy Grace had Dr. McCarrey from John Hopkins Hospital, who says 41 children with evidence of broken bones is very high! He said national statistics say 4 cases of broken bones per thousand is normal. Edited to add that the FLDS response was that it was a case of brittle bones.

The local reporter in Texas stated that CPS observed the FLDS mothers who initially came with the children when they removed the children beginning on April 4th. Beginning at the compound, CPS put plastic bracelets on each child with their name and age.

The FLDS mothers were observed and they systematically tore the bracelets off; swapped the bracelets between children; and blacked out the names on the bracelets!
:furious:

In regards to the abuse of boys, the reporter in Texas says that when CPS went into the YFZ compound they went to the boys classroom (boys segregated from girls) and found journals. Those journals were among the items seized. The reporter said the information regarding abuse of the boys is coming from the journals and also from the boys who are being interviewed.

LOL, and to think of the poor, poor :sick: alleged mother who couldn't find her children. I do believe we now know why!

I hope those journals are very clear on what happened to the boys. That could be some of the best evidence yet. And the most embarrassing to the FLDS yet. They don't seem to care if the girls are abused, they seem to feel that it is essential for the girls to concieve as early and as often as possible. The boys can't conceive. There is no religious "excuse" for the boys abuse.

 

[Peculiar Petunia]

Don't mean to be flip here, but when your only toy is a trampoline (and what's up with that!?!), you're pretty likely to get broken bones.

 

[Vegas Bride]

Don't they begin using the boys at a very young age to work in construction etc? I'm thinking there would be a lot of injuries happen when those little boys are having to learn how to run the machinery etc. All to help put cash in Jeffs pockets. IMO he never should see the light of day again.

VB

 

[mollymalone]

Take away all the allegations of sexual abuse and abandonment and control and the only thing I had to hear is that he made them kill their dogs and I knew he was evil through and through. (then you can put back in the other issues and it just confirms it):furious:

Warren wasn't the only one who did that. Many years ago, reportedly, a dog killed a child and in retaliation his father Rulon Jeffs not only beat the dog to death but he ordered ALL dogs shot. The unsuspecting pets were taken to a gully and beaten or shot or both. In what I read there was nothing said about how the dog killed the child or the circumstances surrounding the event. Like father, like son.

 

[mollymalone]

froggier, that's nice to know about the children's garden and of all the good hearted people donating.

 

[mysteriew]

Don't mean to be flip here, but when your only toy is a trampoline (and what's up with that!?!), you're pretty likely to get broken bones.

You aren't being flip, that is a good point. But I until we have more details, I think it is too early to tell.

A lot of what CPS will be looking at is the number of fractures in one child. More than a couple of kids with more than one broken bone would be a lot, even with a trampoline.

The type of fracture. A greenstick fracture is most likely caused by twisting of the extremity.

The child's explanation will tell a lot. A child who says I don't know how I got it or I slept on it wrong will be looked at closely as well as the child that says an adult did it.

The age of the child. For instance, is there a large number of kids with broken bones under the age of 1?

The number of kids that have been x-rayed. If they have only xrayed 41 kids and 41 have broken bones, that is going to be suspicious.

Was the child's broken bone medically treated, and treated properly?

So yeah, it is early yet but until more details are known it is hard to know how to read that.