Focusing on the Root Cause

[Lexington]

could it be...like I posted long ago - an accident happened- like - while the family fight was going on... NOBODY was watching baby - and this was the best they could come up with collectively as a "dysfunctional" family? could it be?
Where it stops to make sense is - right there.

Sorry, I can't buy this scenario. CA, who lives on the edge of hysteria, would be on the phone calling 911 in a NY minute if there was an accident with Caylee. No way in her presence would this baby expire without her doing everything in her power to help her. I don't see an accident in any way, including a drowning in the pool. KC killed her in a fit of rage to spite CA - that is why Caylee is no longer with us and the only reason. IMO

 

[Truth Seeker]

Ok.
On the 15th June the neighbor heard a verbal fight.
1)Any reason for the neighbor to lie?
if most likely the answer is "no" then go to #2
On the morning of the 16th George's story is that everything is just as usual
2)Does George have a reason to lie?

Well lets see.... He lied when he and Cindy both told Greta on National TV that HE OPENED THE TRUNK and low and behold...there were the 2 gas cans!!

In his testimony to LE however he states that Casey would NOT let him get in the trunk, but she herself, grabbed the 2 cans and shoved them at George....saying Here's Your Fu**en gas cans.
He did not get to see what was in the trunk.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

The only thing that niggles at the back of my head regarding GA and his story about the morning of the 16th, seeing Caylee and Casey dressed and leaving for "work" is this.....when Casey was finally busted by Cindy on July 15th, she said "I haven't see my daughter in 31 days" Pretty specific, not "a month" not "since last month", but specifically 31 days.
If you count back from July 15th 31 days, you arrive at June 15th, not 16th.
The big fight was the evening of the 15th, I'm really really thinking that night was the night Caylee died. And I also think GA is full of.....(be nice)...hot air. IMHO.

I wonder about his "too complete" description of what they were wearing and the circumstances. I asked my husband what two of our kids were wearing before they left the airport for a trip out of the country three weeks ago. He looked at me like I had "slapped" him and said "are you kidding or is this a test for Alzheimer's ?" I told him to try to remember what anyone of us wore. He couldn't.

Men in my experience are not that detailed oriented. My husband is more observant than most, and when I told him why I asked he said anyone saying they knew in such detail what KC & Caylee had on over a month before was a liar.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

Sorry, I can't buy this scenario. CA, who lives on the edge of hysteria, would be on the phone calling 911 in a NY minute if there was an accident with Caylee. No way in her presence would this baby expire without her doing everything in her power to help her. I don't see an accident in any way, including a drowning in the pool. KC killed her in a fit of rage to spite CA - that is why Caylee is no longer with us and the only reason. IMO

I believe that will be what is proven in court.

 

[Lexington]

I believe that will be what is proven in court.

Fantastic. Bring it on.

 

[suggie]

Big argument 6/15, CA threatens to get custody of Caylee. KC freaks, CA throws in the credit card theft. All hey breaks loose and KC storms out with caylee and caylee is never seen again...by anyone.

Only KC knows the truth....and she is back HOME!!!

CA knows the truth in her heart but feels RESPONSIBLE thus protecting the real person who "lost" Caylee.

GA lied....how in the hey do you know exactly what someone was wearing a month ago. I don't know what I wore last week.

TonE said KC stayed with him 6/15, ????, KC could have needed to spend time alone.

Then KC went wild, reckless, making the most of every LAST minute for a reason, because she knows the truth.

She forged checks without a care because she knew she would be gone or in jail, sooner or later.

Why bother? "the KC attitude"

BTW, I heard today that your 'zany' is your home girl/guy/ your bff.

 

[Salem]

I wonder about his "too complete" description of what they were wearing and the circumstances. I asked my husband what two of our kids were wearing before they left the airport for a trip out of the country three weeks ago. He looked at me like I had "slapped" him and said "are you kidding or is this a test for Alzheimer's ?" I told him to try to remember what anyone of us wore. He couldn't.

Men in my experience are not that detailed oriented. My husband is more observant than most, and when I told him why I asked he said anyone saying they knew in such detail what KC & Caylee had on over a month before was a liar.

I agree Tubothink - unless there is a reason to remember. GA said he was just watching tv and it was like any other day. Nothing special, so why would he remember all those details? He might remember what Caylee was wearing if, say, he bought the monkey backpack or the outfit she had on and he "noticed" that she was wearing what he had picked out for her. Otherwise, I don't even think most women would remember if there was nothing significant about the occasion or the clothing.

Salem

 

[okiedokietoo]

Sorry, I can't buy this scenario. CA, who lives on the edge of hysteria, would be on the phone calling 911 in a NY minute if there was an accident with Caylee. No way in her presence would this baby expire without her doing everything in her power to help her. I don't see an accident in any way, including a drowning in the pool. KC killed her in a fit of rage to spite CA - that is why Caylee is no longer with us and the only reason. IMO

Yeal I don't think Caylee died during family fight either - and I am going to have to borrow a phrase that sounds like it came from the "A's" - "In my gut", after hearing George's interview he sounds like the only one in the family that was telling the truth, about everything, except the morning of the 16th, and I think that he might have heard them leaving - or just assumed they were there and they left - all the cell phone pings that morning and mid day were in the general area of the "A" house- think KC drove around until George left but ...
1)Did Caylee die at the house in the morning in room with KC
2)or Did she die right after she left the house (because KC was still in the neighborhood when she started making the rash of calls to CA and GA, the house etc

 

[kam99]

#1 - is no
#2 - is yes

GA may not have lied. If he did not go to the nursing home with CA and cutest baby, he may not have heard about KC stealing more money. If he worked the afternoon and evening of the 15th, then he may not have heard about the fight between CA and KC. He may simply have gone to bed and gotten up next morning, and CA would already have left for work.

 

[bessie]

I concur, Lexington. No accident. This is the scenario I believe occurred, or something very close to it.

On June 15th, Caylee was the victim of a violent act at the hand of her mother, Casey, during a fit of rage brought on by the argument with Cindy. Cindy and Caylee had dinner at Cindy's mother's residence after the nursing home visit earlier that day. There was a discussion about the checks Casey stole from Shirley P. Cindy returned home and confronted Casey.

The argument escalated into a shouting match, and if LP is right, a physical altercation occurred between the two. I have no doubt, literally or figuratively, Cindy went right for the jugular. At this point, poor Caylee became the object of a tug of war. Or perhaps, Cindy threw them both out. At any rate, an enraged Casey and frightened little Caylee left the Anthony house. Caylee was crying. Casey screamed at her to stop, and when she wouldn't, the b**ch drove to an out of the way spot and struck her repeatedly, releasing all of the deep-seated anger she held toward Cindy. That poor baby died from blows meant for her grandmother. (I think Casey revealed that at the house on the night of July 15th before the police arrived, and that is what drove Cindy more deeply into denial.) What happened afterward is anyone's guess, but I do think she had assistance in dealing with the aftermath.

I came to this conclusion weeks ago, and nothing I've heard or read since has changed my mind. It's also possible that Caylee didn't die immediately. She might've suffered a concussion and fallen unconscious, and the stupid tot mom didn't realize how severely she'd injured her until later when she didn't wake up. That thought has bothered me for a long time, and when I heard the story about the nanny, the car accident, and the concussion, a chll ran up my spine.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

I concur, Lexington. No accident. This is the scenario I believe occurred, or something very close to it.

On June 15th, Caylee was the victim of a violent act at the hand of her mother, Casey, during a fit of rage brought on by the argument with Cindy. Cindy and Caylee had dinner at Cindy's mother's residence after the nursing home visit earlier that day. There was a discussion about the checks Casey stole from Shirley P. Cindy returned home and confronted Casey.

The argument escalated into a shouting match, and if LP is right, a physical altercation occurred between the two. I have no doubt, literally or figuratively, Cindy went right for the jugular. At this point, poor Caylee became the object of a tug of war. Or perhaps, Cindy threw them both out. At any rate, an enraged Casey and frightened little Caylee left the Anthony house. Caylee was crying. Casey screamed at her to stop, and when she wouldn't, the b**ch drove to an out of the way spot and struck her repeatedly, releasing all of the deep-seated anger she held toward Cindy. That poor baby died from blows meant for her grandmother. (I think Casey revealed that at the house on the night of July 15th before the police arrived, and that is what drove Cindy more deeply into denial.) What happened afterward is anyone's guess, but I do think she had assistance in dealing with the aftermath.

I came to this conclusion weeks ago, and nothing I've heard or read since has changed my mind. It's also possible that Caylee didn't die immediately. She might've suffered a concussion and fallen unconscious, and the stupid tot mom didn't realize how severely she'd injured her until later when she didn't wake up. That thought has bothered me for a long time, and when I heard the story about the nanny, the car accident, and the concussion, a chll ran up my spine.

I believe you are right on it. I did not catch the car accident connection, but that came out after Caylee was dead IMO and it was to cover whatever head trauma she had. I am sure LE has checked out that entire story.

I keep thinking she was hit in the head with a shovel because she thought she was dead and was putting her in the water/ground and she wasn't so she was finished with a shovel.

 

[cyberborg]

I concur, Lexington. No accident. This is the scenario I believe occurred, or something very close to it.

On June 15th, Caylee was the victim of a violent act at the hand of her mother, Casey, during a fit of rage brought on by the argument with Cindy. Cindy and Caylee had dinner at Cindy's mother's residence after the nursing home visit earlier that day. There was a discussion about the checks Casey stole from Shirley P. Cindy returned home and confronted Casey.

The argument escalated into a shouting match, and if LP is right, a physical altercation occurred between the two. I have no doubt, literally or figuratively, Cindy went right for the jugular. At this point, poor Caylee became the object of a tug of war. Or perhaps, Cindy threw them both out. At any rate, an enraged Casey and frightened little Caylee left the Anthony house. Caylee was crying. Casey screamed at her to stop, and when she wouldn't, the b**ch drove to an out of the way spot and struck her repeatedly, releasing all of the deep-seated anger she held toward Cindy. That poor baby died from blows meant for her grandmother. (I think Casey revealed that at the house on the night of July 15th before the police arrived, and that is what drove Cindy more deeply into denial.) What happened afterward is anyone's guess, but I do think she had assistance in dealing with the aftermath.

I came to this conclusion weeks ago, and nothing I've heard or read since has changed my mind. It's also possible that Caylee didn't die immediately. She might've suffered a concussion and fallen unconscious, and the stupid tot mom didn't realize how severely she'd injured her until later when she didn't wake up. That thought has bothered me for a long time, and when I heard the story about the nanny, the car accident, and the concussion, a chll ran up my spine.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Most plausible theory. Despite any premeditation desires I do think that this was a spur of the moment, crime of passion for 'spite' because KC's world was crumbling with CA inflamed and AL cooling, etc.

Her free ride ticket (Caylee) was starting to talk coherently, the bargaining chip (access to Caylee) was not having the same effect on CA and . . . the family power struggle was becoming too intense/cruel.

It was all escalating and spinning out of control and finally KC snapped -- and Caylee was gone.

KC's story is her reality. She spins partial truth with lies, thus the car accident....

ETA: The good party times were to enjoy her time as much as she could for as long as she could, so be damned if she stole and lied --it didn't matter since time was running out for her. Little did she know how much time she could buy by lying and the high five and recent assertiveness is optimism that hey, KC might just pull this off!!! When she was talking to LA on Jul 15 she thought she was busted and then the door was opened by CA with 'who took Caylee?' opening the door to the kidnapping story and a bunch of lies to buy more time. Play it for what it is worth, you never know, stranger things have happened.

 

[leophoenix]

I concur, Lexington. No accident. This is the scenario I believe occurred, or something very close to it.

On June 15th, Caylee was the victim of a violent act at the hand of her mother, Casey, during a fit of rage brought on by the argument with Cindy. Cindy and Caylee had dinner at Cindy's mother's residence after the nursing home visit earlier that day. There was a discussion about the checks Casey stole from Shirley P. Cindy returned home and confronted Casey.

The argument escalated into a shouting match, and if LP is right, a physical altercation occurred between the two. I have no doubt, literally or figuratively, Cindy went right for the jugular. At this point, poor Caylee became the object of a tug of war. Or perhaps, Cindy threw them both out. At any rate, an enraged Casey and frightened little Caylee left the Anthony house. Caylee was crying. Casey screamed at her to stop, and when she wouldn't, the b**ch drove to an out of the way spot and struck her repeatedly, releasing all of the deep-seated anger she held toward Cindy. That poor baby died from blows meant for her grandmother. (I think Casey revealed that at the house on the night of July 15th before the police arrived, and that is what drove Cindy more deeply into denial.) What happened afterward is anyone's guess, but I do think she had assistance in dealing with the aftermath.

I came to this conclusion weeks ago, and nothing I've heard or read since has changed my mind. It's also possible that Caylee didn't die immediately. She might've suffered a concussion and fallen unconscious, and the stupid tot mom didn't realize how severely she'd injured her until later when she didn't wake up. That thought has bothered me for a long time, and when I heard the story about the nanny, the car accident, and the concussion, a chll ran up my spine.

Thank you, this is what I have thought all along. All too stressed from the fight and the child screaming she snapped and took revenge possibly not even meaning to kill Caylee. Panicked with the phone calls. Then went to her "quiet spot" to think things through.

Then with her warped behavior systematically laid the blame on everyone else in her mind. "Well it's ok, it's not my fault, it's mom's, my ex-bf's that caused this to happen..etc." Nothing is well thought out with her as she had 31 days to come up with a convincing story rather than the hokey Zanny story that was ruled a lie on the first day. All this Zanny crap seemed to be made up on the spot. If anything Zen. was a possible target for theft.

 

[bessie]

respectfully snipping

KC's story is her reality. She spins partial thruth with lies, thus the car accident....

Exactly. That's why when I heard the story about the nanny's concussion my blood ran cold. Because, in my mind at least, that lie confirmed my suspicions.

Turbo, you might very well be right. I hadn't thought about that. Ugh! I will say this, the scenario I just posted was developed from a combination of the known facts, logic, and experience. My "gut" tells me she died from a blow to the head.