Following Casey's directions

[ExpectingUnicorns]

None of it is useful as lies though, is it? I mean, to say, I work at X place, just to go there and then say, oops, now that you're telling me I no longer work here I now remember I don't work here anymore, etc.

To me she sounds like a girl I knew who was drugged by someone (it seemed like probably with LSD) at a party. Afterwards, long afterwards, she continued to believe that what she'd thought had happened during that time actually happened, she couldn't grasp that what she thought she'd been doing and where she'd been were not accurate. MOO Sometimes you see it with meth users, too, I don't know about other drugs like rohypnol or whatever. On the other hand, to me, like in the conversations with Lee, she and he both seem to be talking as if maybe they both know that she goes through periods of confusion and doesn't know what's been going on (whether manic periods, or drug use or what I don't know) but they seem to both talk like he knows she doesn't remember what was going on, it's all a blur, he's going to have to find out what happened. It doesn't seem new or strange to him, he seems familiar with this problem. Like she loses things and doesn't know where, can't remember from one day to the next, etc. MOO I still can't tell exactly what her condition may be. Some of the things she said seemed classic schizophrenic, the confusion of time and place, the theme that someone had given her a script, the theme of people not being themselves (i.e. a different Jeff Hopkins, etc, and a co-worker who's same name as a famous actress). Weird for sure. Maybe lies, but I'm not sure personally. But anyway, it's great to have this thread to talk specifically about the directions she did give. Just to drive us crazy:crazy:

If Casey had been sinisterly drugged by someone else she would have revealed that fact rather than sitting in jail all these months. It is just not logical that she would sacrifice her freedom to protect someone who had injured her and killed her daughter. This doesn't hold any weight. If she is a drug abuser who murdered or allowed her child to be murdered then she is guilty and in the right place. If Lee or any member of the family is/was aware that Casey has/had a history of losing memory as you describe it is only logical that it would have been disclosed at the very beginning to the proper authorities and her defense team would have pursued the mental angle from the get-go.

All, and I mean all, of her actions are consistent with a person who lies and is trying to cover every angle with only more lies. It explains every single area of her strange conduct. Facts have to be either stretched or ignored or rationalized in order to accommodate any other explanation. After reviewing so much info and so many "what ifs" why fight against the one rendition that supports all of her behavior?

 

[Imbackon]

Originally Posted by seagull65

None of it is useful as lies though, is it? I mean, to say, I work at X place, just to go there and then say, oops, now that you're telling me I no longer work here I now remember I don't work here anymore, etc.

No, KC'S lies are not all useful. You don't have to be smart to lie and she doesn't think far enough ahead to see that her lies will be exposed. I'm sure she is/would be terrible at Chess.
Remember how Lee had to explain, like she was a kindergartner, what would happen when the police respond to the 911 call? She doesn't think things through, it's just that simple.

 

[claudicici]

I never believed KC's mental disorder was being a sociopath.I do not believe she is.
She is a liar.A "diabolical liar",as JG stated. A compulsive liar.A pathological liar.
That IMO is her mental disorder.
I blame CA's upbringing for it.

 

[Patriciao]

i think the only cryptic thing that Casey says is when she spins one lie into another. If someone starts questioning her logic or finds the flaw in what she's saying she puts another statement on top that just puts them back at square one. She's stalling for time with Lee and towards the end of the conversation she's awful anxious to end it and uses the excuse she must go meet with Jose. She knows she's lying.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

I never believed KC's mental disorder was being a sociopath.I do not believe she is.
She is a liar.A "diabolical liar",as JG stated. A compulsive liar.A pathological liar.
That IMO is her mental disorder.
I blame CA's upbringing for it.

I do hope her psychological will be released at some point! She is a classic malignant narcisis, I do believe she has sociopathic tendencies, although I am definately no mental health professional but she meets many of the criteria..IMO

I do agree her upbringing has played a huge part in her behaviors but at some point, being an adult, she is the only one responsible for her own behavior. Had she been given, family morals/values, consequences for bad behavior, responsibilities, etc., she certainly could have been a productive member of society instead of a mooch/leech...JMHO

Justice for Caylee


Justice for Caylee

 

[aprilshowers]

I've stated this before ... and I say it again, ICA seems to have BPD (borderline personality disorder), in a big way. I have this disorder .. so I would know.

Lying is a part of it, and so is the fact that you ALWAYS have to look good for the men in your life, you're very insecure, have low self esteem, and trust no one.

Camping out in the car is typical .. I've done that before .. so is spying on others, and when things get boring, you 'set up' something to happen to cause excitement in your life, or draw attention to yourself.

Luckily, many of my traits have fallen off as I've gotten older, but I still have the pull .. I just have learned to control them.

 

[Snaz]

i think the only cryptic thing that Casey says is when she spins one lie into another. If someone starts questioning her logic or finds the flaw in what she's saying she puts another statement on top that just puts them back at square one. She's stalling for time with Lee and towards the end of the conversation she's awful anxious to end it and uses the excuse she must go meet with Jose. She knows she's lying.

What's more, LEE knows.

 

[kjt300]

I watched a documentary yesterday on HBO called "Forbidden Lies." It was facinating and struck me as so very like Casey Anthony.

Here is the premise to the true story. A woman publishes a book (her very first book) about living in Jordan and how her best friend was murdered in an honor killing for falling in love with someone. The book goes viral, published by Random House) and is translated in multiple dialects. The author implies she is unmarried, a virgin and has no children. A few months into the release a reporter starts to wonder about the credibility of the author. He discovers things like:

.....She is married and has two children
......She left her children in the care of a neighbor (in Australia) for a week but never came back for them.
......She was actually educated in the United States, not Jordan.
......They could find no record of the woman that was killed in Jordan.
......She was charged with multiple crimes in her past. Things like conning an old woman out of her house and half a million dollars. The woman was senile.
......She claimed to be a Jordanian Princess to some guy and conned him out of almost forty grand.

Anyway, the list when on and on. But, here is the facinating part. Once she was accused of being a fraud, the lies really started (and this is where the Casey similiary comes in.) She actually talked a film maker into traveling to Jordan for one week to confirm the FACTS in her true book. Once they got there, the tap dance began. Things like:

.....The film maker went to the medical examiner and found out that the person killed did not exist. So, the author tap dances and says ,"oh, I changed the name and the year in the book. I couldn't chance her family or mine being targeted."
.....It is determined that the author was educated in the states. "oh, I held duel citizenship. The publisher told me to omit that from the book."
.....She said that the woman killed was a hairdresser and met her lover when she cut his hair. On the trip it was confirmed that NO woman in that country would be able to cut a man's hair as it was culturally inappropriate. Only men cut men's hair. Her answer? "Oh, I changed that to protect the family."
.....They went to the graveyard. No grave for the woman killed. "oh, it is actually another graveyard."

It went on and on and on and on. She would get caught in one lie and make up another. You could tell that with many of the lies she would only buy a day or so while the film maker tracked down the truth. But when that truth was revealed, another lie supplanted the first one.

Like I said, it was like watching Casey Anthony in action. You should watch it and keep her in mind...

Sorry for the long post. MOO. Thanks for listening.

 

[Just Jayla]

I've stated this before ... and I say it again, ICA seems to have BPD (borderline personality disorder), in a big way. I have this disorder .. so I would know.

Lying is a part of it, and so is the fact that you ALWAYS have to look good for the men in your life, you're very insecure, have low self esteem, and trust no one. Like dressing up for "work" when she would leave Ricardo's, or leave the house in George's presence?

Camping out in the car is typical .. I've done that before .. so is spying on others, and when things get boring, you 'set up' something to happen to cause excitement in your life, or draw attention to yourself.Camping in the car-it may have been more frequent for KC than we think...and as for setting things up for drama? How bout a trip to Puerto Rico she knew she could never take-She actually coordinated the whole thing and knew she could not go

Luckily, many of my traits have fallen off as I've gotten older, but I still have the pull .. I just have learned to control them.

BBM, then my remarks in red

 

[Curious Me]

I wish Casey went to Puerto Rico with Cindy and George's blessing, even gave her some money to have a fun time, and then they could've worked on getting custody of Caylee before she died. If wishes were horses...

 

[Woe.be.gone]

She's certainly not schizophrenic and definitely not classic schizophrenic. She had control of her faculties and was telling lies to fit the situation, making things up as she went along and was fairly consistent about her story. It was nothing more than a person making things up as they went along. Though she was flagrantly lying, her thinking was not disorganized (everything she made up supported her initial claim that she didn't know where caylee was, etc) and she has never had any history we know of with heavy drug use or severe mental illness.

We can't 100 percent know if KC suffers from a mental illness imo. Schizophrenia can show up in a person well into their twenties (though the person may suspect something is wrong with them but can keep it under wraps to an extent until they can't anymore). Have you ever seen that movie starring Crowe - shoot I can't think of the details - anyway, it's about a student and now professor at Princeton who is a Schizophrenic. I remember he said that there's little difference between schizophrenia and bi-polar disorder. That comment surprised me and I don't know why he claims it but he said it. So KC may have bi-polar, keeping in mind that people with either diagnosis don't usually kill people.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

If Casey had been sinisterly drugged by someone else she would have revealed that fact rather than sitting in jail all these months. It is just not logical that she would sacrifice her freedom to protect someone who had injured her and killed her daughter. This doesn't hold any weight. If she is a drug abuser who murdered or allowed her child to be murdered then she is guilty and in the right place. If Lee or any member of the family is/was aware that Casey has/had a history of losing memory as you describe it is only logical that it would have been disclosed at the very beginning to the proper authorities and her defense team would have pursued the mental angle from the get-go.

All, and I mean all, of her actions are consistent with a person who lies and is trying to cover every angle with only more lies. It explains every single area of her strange conduct. Facts have to be either stretched or ignored or rationalized in order to accommodate any other explanation. After reviewing so much info and so many "what ifs" why fight against the one rendition that supports all of her behavior?

Cindy apparently has the same potential for lying as KC when necessary. Maybe it just grew more exaggerated with KC.

 

[aprilshowers]

BBM, then my remarks in red

Yup .. yup ... and yup! I'm ashamed to admit it now ... but you wouldn't believe the things I would do for attention, from a man. :doh:

For me, it was very very easy to lie, I was really good at it, and many could NEVER tell I was lying. I absolutely could see myself sitting in a car and watching my family from afar ... and dressing up for 'work' that wasn't there. That's actually pretty 'normal' for some of us borderlines.

The fixing up of herself, constantly, in the video of her waiting in the room, while LE was away, BIG time what I was like. I remember shaking my head when I heard her taking LE around to places that didn't exist or people that weren't there ... and to her 'job', yet now that I think of it, I can see myself doing just that ... when I was her age.

Kill my child??? NO WAY!!! That's our biggest difference!! If I had done anything, I would have left her with my mom & dad.

 

[countzero]

We can't 100 percent know if KC suffers from a mental illness imo. Schizophrenia can show up in a person well into their twenties (though the person may suspect something is wrong with them but can keep it under wraps to an extent until they can't anymore). Have you ever seen that movie starring Crowe - shoot I can't think of the details - anyway, it's about a student and now professor at Princeton who is a Schizophrenic. I remember he said that there's little difference between schizophrenia and bi-polar disorder. That comment surprised me and I don't know why he claims it but he said it. So KC may have bi-polar, keeping in mind that people with either diagnosis don't usually kill people.

woe, you're correct in that we don't know if ICA has any mental illness. What I do know is if she does, JB would have "leaked" this info to his favorite media outlet. ICA would and will not approve any of this. She had her chance with T Lemmon. JB isn't going down that path of defense, yet if at all.

One has to remember with movies, the writers and producers take extreme liberties with facts. They will pick and choose, embellishing upon those facts which fit into their scenario of the movie plot lines.

Even the expert witnesses will focus on specific points of their diagnosis of a patient when testifying at trials. Being paid, they say what they agree with the attorneys who hire them.

Regardless of what a doctor diagnoses ICA with, she was and is mentally fit and understood at the time of Caylee's murder her actions were wrong and illegal. Even now we see JB posturing to blame CA for ICA's behavior; ICA KNEW MURDER was and is wrong. She simply didn't care about the consequences of her actions, nor taking responsibility for those actions. Same holds true for the rest of the A clan.

ICAs own spoken directions will only lead her down the walk to a permanent residence inside of a small 8x12 or what ever size it is prison cell. Courtesy of the fine citizens of the state of Florida. ICA will adapt to her surroundings as she always has.

 

[Spangle]

We can't 100 percent know if KC suffers from a mental illness imo. Schizophrenia can show up in a person well into their twenties (though the person may suspect something is wrong with them but can keep it under wraps to an extent until they can't anymore). Have you ever seen that movie starring Crowe - shoot I can't think of the details - anyway, it's about a student and now professor at Princeton who is a Schizophrenic. I remember he said that there's little difference between schizophrenia and bi-polar disorder. That comment surprised me and I don't know why he claims it but he said it. So KC may have bi-polar, keeping in mind that people with either diagnosis don't usually kill people.

She she knew murder of a child to be wrong, then the only point of a diagnosis is to explain how she might have gotten to that point. It wouldn't change the fact that she did it. Or really excuse her behavior as a 'woops.'

It might make the difference from Death roll, or LWOP. However, since is is rare for FL to put a female on Death roll, I always believed she was only looking at LWOP before it became a media event... where folks now EXPECT her to get Death Roll..

I believe we are all twisted in some way. And we ALL have to live in this world with the same rules.. and just learn to do it with our own personal disablities.

I have a child who is ADHD. When I tell a teacher, he/she generally assumes I am giving an excuse.. cause that IS what some folks do. I explain it is just an explanation.. like an allergy. The child is STILL expected to follow ALL rules, etc.. as the other children.

 

[Ada]

I believe Dr. Glass stated she's a sociopath which is a behavioral problem.

Didn't CA also diagnose KC as a sociopath?

 

[Just Jayla]

Didn't CA also diagnose KC as a sociopath?

A counselor suggested it to CA, based on the things CA told the counselor about KC...then CA repeated what the counselor said (KC is a sociopath) to RyanP.

 

[aprilshowers]

She she knew murder of a child to be wrong, then the only point of a diagnosis is to explain how she might have gotten to that point. It wouldn't change the fact that she did it. Or really excuse her behavior as a 'woops.'

It might make the difference from Death roll, or LWOP. However, since is is rare for FL to put a female on Death roll, I always believed she was only looking at LWOP before it became a media event... where folks now EXPECT her to get Death Roll..

I believe we are all twisted in some way. And we ALL have to live in this world with the same rules.. and just learn to do it with our own personal disablities.

I have a child who is ADHD. When I tell a teacher, he/she generally assumes I am giving an excuse.. cause that IS what some folks do. I explain it is just an explanation.. like an allergy. The child is STILL expected to follow ALL rules, etc.. as the other children.

I absolutely agree! I was never using the BPD as an excuse .. no way! My niece also has the diagnosis, and was much much worse than me, in things she did ... but she is now raising 3 children, and a really good mom .... she would NEVER think of taking their life, no matter how bad she got.

 

[countzero]

A counselor suggested it to CA, based on the things CA told the counselor about KC...then CA repeated what the counselor said (KC is a sociopath) to RyanP.

OH I wish I could remember what thread I wrote this in. It was recently. I re-read CAs state depo and Ca never stated this. She told Linda she went to the counselor about her finances and stress. CA said the counselor suggested to bring ICA in with her to a session. From what CA told this counselor, the counselor suggested CA to get ICA and Caylee to move out because of the financial stress. CA balked at this that she would never kick ICA out of her house. CA told Linda she didn't go back because CA didn't like this counselor.

I do know the written transcript is in the refence thread. It's a two parter and well worth the re-read. I have not read any released SAO docs that said the counselor told CA ICA was a sociopath. Those were CAs words.

Just trying to clarify for all.

 

[Just Jayla]

OH I wish I could remember what thread I wrote this in. It was recently. I re-read CAs state depo and Ca never stated this. She told Linda she went to the counselor about her finances and stress. CA said the counselor suggested to bring ICA in with her to a session. From what CA told this counselor, the counselor suggested CA to get ICA and Caylee to move out because of the financial stress. CA balked at this that she would never kick ICA out of her house. CA told Linda she didn't go back because CA didn't like this counselor.

I do know the written transcript is in the refence thread. It's a two parter and well worth the re-read. I have not read any released SAO docs that said the counselor told CA ICA was a sociopath. Those were CAs words.

Just trying to clarify for all.

Perhaps in Ryan P's interview? Will take a look.

ETA-Nope, Ryan says it came from CA's lips, not the counselor to CA...my bad if I can't find it, though it could have been passing commentary by GA or SP, not sure.