For Those Who Do Not Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

[dexter75]

The sexting thing, as far as I have seen, has never been disputed by anyone, just like the previous wrongful conviction. Even by KK. The only reason it has been made part of Teresa's case is because MaM made it that way. SA's fans all over the internet repeatedly latch on to it when discussing this case as a deflection technique, more so since KK has started spilling the beans via interviews and his book, and anyone who doesn't blight on about it adnauseam becomes a target for these people.

I prefer to discuss the case evidence and at this point, regardless of what his Defense Attorney says from behind her keyboard, all the evidence leads down one road, Avery rd, straight to SA's door.

JMO

The evidence kinda leads to other places too, IMO.
Barrels over at the Janda's
Bones at the quarry

I have always felt that BD knew of his Uncle's plans before he left for school that morning. Whether he truely believed SA could successfully pull off that plan may be another thing.

Imo he lied about going to the trailer to deliver mail, he went to the trailer to see if she was there. I may be alone on this but it is my belief that it was no coincidence that the timing of her abduction, and sexual assault, coincided with BD turning 16 on October 19th. Under Wisconsin Law, he was now considered old enough for a sexual relationship (only if the other person consented). BD told investigators that after having his turn with Teresa, they sat down and had a [celebratory] drink and SA acknowledges BD's first time by saying "that's how it's done". So, that is what I feel was the real motive.

JMO

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[Madeleine74]

Hey Limaes,

Took a break and watched the 4 part video you posted. Each segment was about 8 min. Thanks again for the links.

I grabbed some screen shots for items shown in the videos that I found interesting. Each is a thumbnail that can be clicked to show a larger size:

SA's actual letter to KK asking KK to be his attorney:



TH bone matter intertwined with steel belt wires:

Collection of TH charred bones:




Burn barrel remnants showing burned PDA, camera, cell phone:




Photo showing ballistics match of bullet found with DNA evidence to a control bullet fired from SA .22 rifle:

 

[Limaes]

Hey Limaes,

Took a break and watched the 4 part video you posted. Each segment was about 8 min. Thanks again for the links.

I grabbed some screen shots for items shown in the videos that I found interesting. Each is a thumbnail that can be clicked to show a larger size:

SA's actual letter to KK asking KK to be his attorney:



TH bone matter intertwined with steel belt wires:

Collection of TH charred bones:




Burn barrel remnants showing burned PDA, camera, cell phone:




Photo showing ballistics match of bullet found with DNA evidence to a control bullet fired from SA .22 rifle:

I've seen those bones described as having been "sprinkled" over the wires. They're definitely interwined. Why would planters go to all that trouble to intertwine the fragments of bone but just drop a key next to the pair of slippers? It is inconsistent and , imo, not logical.

I'm glad Fassbender has been speaking out now. Hope more follow.

JMO

 

[Karinna]

Can we really trust anything in this case? How can anyone really determine anything factual when there are so many discrepencies.
(quote)
As with many of the key pieces of evidence in the Making A Murderer case, there’s a lot of controversy surrounding the bones found in Steven Avery’s burn pit. A proper forensic grid was never set up, and material from the pit was simply shoveled into boxes and sifted through back at the labs. Record keeping and chain of command protocols were largely ignored by the forensic labs, and the defense in Steven Avery’s trial complained, “It is unclear whether some, all, or none of the fragments had been previously determined by the state’s forensic anthropologist to be human or not. In short, the defense has no way of knowing from this cryptic report what was sent to and examined by the FBI Lab.”
http://uproxx.com/tv/making-a-murderer-bird-bones-teresa-halbach-remains/

 

[Madeleine74]

I've seen those bones described as having been "sprinkled" over the wires. They're definitely interwined. Why would planters go to all that trouble to intertwine the fragments of bone but just drop a key next to the pair of slippers? It is inconsistent and , imo, not logical.

I'm glad Fassbender has been speaking out now. Hope more follow.

JMO

Some supporters go to great lengths to try and make every bit of evidence seem like it was manufactured. I believe they represent a fringe element and perhaps suffer from some degree of paranoia.

When everything is a conspiracy that's a sign the elevator might not be going to all the floors, as the saying goes. The multiple and changing conspiracy and planting theories never seem to coalesce into anything cohesive. It's just random "everything's planted," "the cops are out to get him/her/them no matter what because..." The dichotomy is: evidence that exists and would be considered inculpatory by any rational standard is denied, but fantasy of framing is fully believed, with no evidence needed.

ETA: the other fringe I've seen is a variation on the above in which a default belief exists that all evidence is planted in criminal cases and it's up to the state and the various professionals to prove the evidence wasn't planted.

JMO

 

[Karinna]

Some supporters go to great lengths to try and make every bit of evidence seem like it was manufactured. I believe they represent a fringe element and perhaps suffer from some degree of paranoia.

When everything is a conspiracy that's a sign the elevator might not be going to all the floors, as the saying goes. The multiple and changing conspiracy and planting theories never seem to coalesce into anything cohesive. It's just random "everything's planted," "the cops are out to get him/her/them no matter what because..." The dichotomy is: evidence that exists and would be considered inculpatory by any rational standard is denied, but fantasy of framing is fully believed, with no evidence needed.

JMO

I personally don't support anything because i have no dog in this race so to speak. But from all that has been presented and not just the MAM series, there is a lot in this case that is very questionable IMO.
From the way the case was handled by the Keystone cops, and proper protocol in a criminal investigation was not observed, it leaves plenty of room for doubt IMO.
And what actual evidence is there really when nothing was actually proven BARD. Everything was very questionable. And Justice is not always served as we well know. Avery was already screwed once before, so what does that tell us?

 

[RANCH]

Some supporters go to great lengths to try and make every bit of evidence seem like it was manufactured. I believe they represent a fringe element and perhaps suffer from some degree of paranoia.

When everything is a conspiracy that's a sign the elevator might not be going to all the floors, as the saying goes. The multiple and changing conspiracy and planting theories never seem to coalesce into anything cohesive. It's just random "everything's planted," "the cops are out to get him/her/them no matter what because..." The dichotomy is: evidence that exists and would be considered inculpatory by any rational standard is denied, but fantasy of framing is fully believed, with no evidence needed.

ETA: the other fringe I've seen is a variation on the above in which a default belief exists that all evidence is planted in criminal cases and it's up to the state and the various professionals to prove the evidence wasn't planted.

JMO

Yes. Actual inculpatory evidence is dismissed for a variety of reasons that I don't agree with. One is since LE has been known to plant evidence in other cases that means it happened in this case. Right. Or someone acted "suspicious" so that means they planted evidence. Weak. And so on.

It seems more and more these days that LE is automatically considered to be inherently evil while miscreants are given a pass. JMO

 

[Karinna]

Yes. Actual inculpatory evidence is dismissed for a variety of reasons that I don't agree with. One is since LE has been known to plant evidence in other cases that means it happened in this case. Right. Or someone acted "suspicious" so that means they planted evidence. Weak. And so on.

It seems more and more these days that LE is automatically considered to be inherently evil while miscreants are given a pass. JMO

But one has to admit that in Avery's cases that LE have been the so called "Miscreants", because they knowingly left him incarcerated on a false premise of having committed a previous crime of rape. There is no getting around that fact. It happened. And if it has happened once it can happen again IMO. SA is an unsavory character it has been determined from his previous run ins with the law, and its not surprising that he would be viewed as dispensable to some that would want him out of the picture.
Here is an article about what can happen in the state of Wisconsin, and it's not Manitowoc, but shows that police corruption is also a fact.
http://wicourtscorrupt.com/corrupti...e-fountain-homicide-and-mccants-conviction-1/

 

[RANCH]

I just watched the Crime Watch Daily videos and found them very interesting.

One segment caught my attention.

It was were Fassbender talked about the .22 caliber bullet that was recovered with Teresa's DNA on it. This was after Brendan was shown on video saying that a .22 caliber firearm was used to kill her without any prompting from Fassbender.

How did Brendan know that a .22 was used? JMO

[video=youtube;OVftT1GZyQU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVftT1GZyQU[/video]

 

[Limaes]

BD's bleach stained jeans. 😮

More new photos here

https://www.reddit.com/r/StevenAver...photos_from_brendan_dasseys_trial_now_online/

 

[Limaes]

How BD & JS described the furniture arrangement in the bedroom prior to Nov 5th. Fits with BD's claim that he could see her on the bed from the hallway.

JMO

 

[RANCH]

Another thing I got from viewing Fassbender in the video was that the "planted" key wasn't "planted." It was left between the nightstand and the wall to conceal it.

That plan didn't work because the stand was shaken,and the key was found. JMO

 

[missy1974]

I just watched the Crime Watch Daily videos and found them very interesting.

One segment caught my attention.

It was were Fassbender talked about the .22 caliber bullet that was recovered with Teresa's DNA on it. This was after Brendan was shown on video saying that a .22 caliber firearm was used to kill her without any prompting from Fassbender.

How did Brendan know that a .22 was used? JMO

[video=youtube;OVftT1GZyQU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVftT1GZyQU[/video]

Because it was asked of him in a previous UNRECORDED interview when they put him, his mother and his brother in a hotel room the evening of Feb 27 at Fox Hills Resort, "for their safety".

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf#page=513

 

[missy1974]

Another thing I got from viewing Fassbender in the video was that the "planted" key wasn't "planted." It was left between the nightstand and the wall to conceal it.

That plan didn't work because the stand was shaken,and the key was found. JMO

That would be Fassbender's opinion, right? Because if not and he knows where it was, that would be interesting. LE officers that were present at the time of the key being found seem to have different stories. Also, IMO there is no way that shelf was shaken and everything, including coins were in the same place after shaking.

 

[Limaes]

Yes. Actual inculpatory evidence is dismissed for a variety of reasons that I don't agree with. One is since LE has been known to plant evidence in other cases that means it happened in this case. Right. Or someone acted "suspicious" so that means they planted evidence. Weak. And so on.

It seems more and more these days that LE is automatically considered to be inherently evil while miscreants are given a pass. JMO

I have been reading up a bit about cases confirmed to involve planting by LE. Most of the cases involved the planting of drugs.

LEO's arriving at ASY with Teresa's cremains and "sprinkling" them in various locations, breaking into the clerk's office to access the blood even though they had no knowledge of a bleeding injury to explain how his blood came to be where they "planted" it, not to mention hiding her Rav 4 until they could drive it onto the property without being seen. If one theorises a "framer" drove that car onto the property, they may as well theorise it was driven there along the yellow brick road. It is a fanciful fairytale theory.

JMO

 

[IDK]

Because it was asked of him in a previous UNRECORDED interview when they put him, his mother and his brother in a hotel room the evening of Feb 27 at Fox Hills Resort, "for their safety".

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf#page=513

Missy, Thank you so much for your post and links. I love that you are able to bring us all back to what the actual FACTS are. That is the only way to arrive at the truth. My dad used to have a phrase for people who are extremely bright and on the ball. He would say they have a mind "like a steel trap" and that describes you to a T!

 

[Karinna]

I have been reading up a bit about cases confirmed to involve planting by LE. Most of the cases involved the planting of drugs.

LEO's arriving at ASY with Teresa's cremains and "sprinkling" them in various locations, breaking into the clerk's office to access the blood even though they had no knowledge of a bleeding injury to explain how his blood came to be where they "planted" it, not to mention hiding her Rav 4 until they could drive it onto the property without being seen. If one theorises a "framer" drove that car onto the property, they may as well theorise it was driven there along the yellow brick road. It is a fanciful fairytale theory.

JMO

What if it wasn't LE that planted some of the evidence apart from perhaps the key? SA himself didn't mention LE as setting him up for this, but some of the members of his family, namely two i can think of which were BoD & ST. His opinion for motive was to do with the salvage yard business & jealousy over his coming monetary compensation. Sounds like a fair enough motive to me and SA would know seeing as he knew those guys on a daily basis. Sounds like he didn't trust them, and there was a long list of violent offences on ST.

 

[Madeleine74]

There's no logic behind the "planting the body."

Never a cohesive, rational explanation for exactly how TH's remains ended up in SA's burn pit in a planting scenario.

- The planter or planters would have arranged to get TH's phone, camera, PDA and leave that in the burn barrel near SA's trailer, without being seen and without Bear the dog alerting to a stranger.
- The planter(s) coincidentally arranged for SA to be seen dumping a bag in the barrel the afternoon of TH's disappearance, then arranging for a fire to be lit in the burn barrel.

- Someone would have to get a hold of TH and kill her, wearing the clothes she wore while at ASY.
- That person or persons would have to burn her body and get some of her remains intertwined within steel belts from burned tires.
- Then her charred bones, tooth (or teeth) and other burned items (jean rivet(s) etc) would have to be transported to ASY, along with the melded steel belts that intertwined with some of TH's bones.
- Then those charred bones would have to be spread in the burn pit outside of SA's trailer.
- The planter felt it was important to put one or more of TH's larger bones in the burn barrel between SA & Janda trailers and did so without any detection or alerting by Bear.
- This master planter would need to be at ASY long enough to do all this planting, without detection, having gotten past Bear the German Shepard, and also cause Bear to not bark at the stranger approaching with TH's remains.
- The cremains were not just sitting on top in the burn pit, they were discovered underneath a layer of ash and dirt, so the planter needs to make that happen. It was coincidentally very helpful for SA to leave tools at the burn pit that would help the planter plant those charred bones and steel belts melded with some TH bones in the pit -- shovel, hacksaw blade, hammer.
- Then the planter or planters need to make sure SA used his fire pit to coincide with TH's day of disappearance, knowing she had not been seen or heard from by anyone else from the time she was seen walking toward SA's trailer door.
- The planter was able to make sure TH never used her phone again at the same time she happened to be at ASY and in the presence of SA.
- Then the planter or planters had to make sure investigators found TH remains that were buried under the layer of ash in SA's burn pit. They didn't make it easy for her remains to be found -- it required a trained cadaver scent dog to alert on the burn barrel which ultimately led investigators to SA's trailer, burn pit and cremains discovery.
- Then, in a master stroke of pure evil genius, the planter ensured that SA's nephew, the one who definitely helped SA clean a 3x3 area of SA's garage floor with 3 chemicals, staining his pants with bleach whilst doing so, and then helping his uncle start a large fire that burned for hours, felt traumatized to the extent that he talked to his female cousin and had her so troubled she seeked out counseling at the guidance counseling office at school, where she talked about blood, concrete, body being moved and her concern about her cousin.


Not even Agents Scully or Mulder would believe that one.

 

[RANCH]

I have been reading up a bit about cases confirmed to involve planting by LE. Most of the cases involved the planting of drugs.

LEO's arriving at ASY with Teresa's cremains and "sprinkling" them in various locations, breaking into the clerk's office to access the blood even though they had no knowledge of a bleeding injury to explain how his blood came to be where they "planted" it, not to mention hiding her Rav 4 until they could drive it onto the property without being seen. If one theorises a "framer" drove that car onto the property, they may as well theorise it was driven there along the yellow brick road. It is a fanciful fairytale theory.

JMO

What about the cut on Avery's finger? Did LE plant that too? LOL

 

[Madeleine74]

What about the cut on Avery's finger? Did LE plant that too? LOL

But of course!