For Those Who Do Not Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted - Discuss

WELCOME to WS Tiffany!

You've found the right thread to discuss the case from the angle of there being no framing or conspiracy occurring in this case. We may have different opinions on aspects of the case, but overall the common sentiment is without evidence proving allegations of framing and conspiracy, we don't give those allegations any weight.
 
For those that may wonder where your post went...

The title of this thread is:

For Those Who Do Not Think Avery was Framed & Evidence Planted

Please stay on topic and post in the appropriate threads.
 
Tiffany,

Since you watched MaM, you probably 'enjoyed' (heh) the haunting music over scenes of birds flying, Pa Avery munching on lettuce from the garden, and the clever editing that has since been discovered to be manipulation and fabrication of some witness testimony that the 2 lovely filmmakers created by splicing different parts of testimony together to advance their singular narrative. Some of us call that propaganda.

Anyway, if you are interested in facts of the case there are lots of other resources (court transcripts) to dig into if you want to hear (err..read) what the jury actually heard and the evidence that was presented to them. Check the stickies that appear at the top of the forum and you'll find some of those resources.
 
Tiffany,

Since you watched MaM, you probably 'enjoyed' (heh) the haunting music over scenes of birds flying, Pa Avery munching on lettuce from the garden, and the clever editing that has since been discovered to be manipulation and fabrication of some witness testimony that the 2 lovely filmmakers created by splicing different parts of testimony together to advance their singular narrative. Some of us call that propaganda.

Anyway, if you are interested in facts of the case there are lots of other resources (court transcripts) to dig into if you want to hear (err..read) what the jury actually heard and the evidence that was presented to them. Check the stickies that appear at the top of the forum and you'll find some of those resources.

And the lies by omission! I'm wondering if we will see any documentaries from the side of TH's family? That would be interesting. And yes thank you! I have been checking them out but work keeps getting in the way :)
 
I don't think there will be any commercial documentary made from the side of Avery being guilty -- since it's all about marketing and the $$$ that can be made and that requires generating a big audience. It's not very compelling when the outcome is "the convicted guy...is actually guilty of the crime." Conspiracy and a genre that's emerged, referred to as "injustice *advertiser censored*" sells a whole lot better. And as Netflix will confirm, people are ready and willing to eat it up!
 
Thanks for the link!

You'll notice the discussion platform, Reddit is often cited as a source of Avery case info since there are multiple groups there and their members helped fund public access to many case documents now available.
 
I'm sure that this has been posted elsewhere (my apologies for duplicating any info), but this is where I found a majority of info I didn't hear much about, if at all, through the documentary: http://stevenaverycase.com/what-making-a-murderer-didnt-tell-you/#sthash.d6ibnLOr.dpbs
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Hello Tiffany and Welcome! :welcome:

I've found better information at the link below. These are the actual case files that have been crowd sourced.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/

I started with the link you posted, but in the end the actual documents have been more helpful to me.

Of course, all JMO.
 
When JS was told not to have any more contact with SA, was it ever explained why? I understand she has a drinking problem, which seemed to have been exacerbated by SA, but I'm curious to know if he threatened her or she him, or if there was some other explanation for the no-contact request (or was it an order?). It seemed to be another instance the film makers just glossed over.
 
I don't think there will be any commercial documentary made from the side of Avery being guilty -- since it's all about marketing and the $$$ that can be made and that requires generating a big audience. It's not very compelling when the outcome is "the convicted guy...is actually guilty of the crime." Conspiracy and a genre that's emerged, referred to as "injustice *advertiser censored*" sells a whole lot better. And as Netflix will confirm, people are ready and willing to eat it up!

The odds of Netflix allowing a documentary to be aired that refutes their money making series "Making A Murderer" is zero. JMO
 
When JS was told not to have any more contact with SA, was it ever explained why? I understand she has a drinking problem, which seemed to have been exacerbated by SA, but I'm curious to know if he threatened her or she him, or if there was some other explanation for the no-contact request (or was it an order?). It seemed to be another instance the film makers just glossed over.
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I'm not sure where the no contact order/request was? Would you happen to have a document that you are referencing? I could probably explain it if I saw it. I've seen so many and my memory is sometimes foggy. :blushing:
 
When JS was told not to have any more contact with SA, was it ever explained why? I understand she has a drinking problem, which seemed to have been exacerbated by SA, but I'm curious to know if he threatened her or she him, or if there was some other explanation for the no-contact request (or was it an order?). It seemed to be another instance the film makers just glossed over.


JS's version of the no contact order (interview with HLN) is below. As to the actual legal reason I'm not sure, though JS had called 911 before because of domestic violence incidents with SA, so perhaps it's related to that:

"We were put on a no-contact after phone calls were made that my P.O. (parole officer) heard, of him talking to his mom something about me, I don’t know, I don’t care. We were put on a no-contact for that, and then one day he called and asked for the camera. Well, the camera’s in police custody. I don’t have it. She had some officers come to the house and arrest me because it was third-party contact. There’s no contact at all. So I went to jail, we talked, and she said it’d be in my best interest if I left. If I stayed, I’d keep getting in trouble. Well, I ain’t getting in trouble for him. So I moved."
 
Additional document(s) released and this one was a Motion In Limine to admit statements made by Avery and Barb Janda.

Supports the contention made that Avery was calling the shots behind bars in various conversations to his family members. Also removes any doubt of a bonfire occurring the night of Oct 31.

II. STATEMENTS BY STEVEN AVERY AND BARB JANDA


First, these Statements are in furtherance of the conspiracy to cover up the crime of first degree murder and constitute attempts to intimidate a witness under Wis. Stat. § 940.43(4) and which may include an attempt to suborn perjury. Second, all of this behavior on behalf of Steven Avery and Barb Janda constitute other acts of both Janda and Avery which fully explain the defendant's recantation and which refute the defense of "false confession." Third, such statements are offered for the subsequent effect of them on the "listener" Brendan Dassey. Lastly, these statements constitute information utilized and relied upon by the expert witnesses in this case.


A. The October 31, 2005, 5:36 p.m. statements in a recorded telephone call from Jodi Stachowski to Steven Avery.


B. The October 31, 2005, 8:57 p.m. statements in a recorded telephone call from Jodi Stachowski to Steven Avery, advising that Brendan was helping clean up at Steven Avery's.



C. The November 18, 2005, 6:57 p.m. the statements in a recorded telephone call from Steven Avery to Barb Janda including but not limited to the discussion regarding whether a bonfire did indeed occur on October 31, 2005, and in which Barb Janda said there was a fire, to which Steven Avery replied, "Well then Brendan was with me." This is also a statement of a present sense impression.


D. The November 26, 2005 recorded telephone call from Steven Avery to CA, a news reporter for the Associated Press, during which Steven Avery acknowledges having a bonfire on October 31, 2005, and that his nephew Brendan was present.



E. The February 4, 2006, interview of Steven Avery with AL, WFRV Green Bay, wherein Steven Avery acknowledges having a bonfire on October 31 and that his nephew Brendan was present.



F. The February 27, 2006, statement in a recorded telephone call from Steven Avery to his brother Charles Avery telling his brother to tell his sister Barb to call the Public Defender's Office so Brendan won't make anymore statements to police.



G. The February 28, 2006, statements in a recorded telephone call from Steven Avery to Charles Avery wherein Steven Avery tells Charles Avery that "Brendan will go to jail if I'm found guilty."



H. The February 28, 2006, statements in a recorded telephone call from Steven Avery to Dolores Avery from the jail regarding a fire on October 31, 2005, between 6:00 and 9:00 p.m. wherein Steven Avery jokes with his mother about Brendan seeing body parts in a fire, particularly legs in a fire.



I. The March 2, 2006, statements in a recorded telephone call from Steven Avery to Dolores Avery and Barb Janda in which Steven Avery told Dolores Avery that it was Barb's fault for letting Brendan talk to the cops.



J. The March 9, 2006, statements in a recorded telephone call from Steven Avery to Dolores Avery and Barb Janda wherein Steven Avery told Dolores and Barb to call Brendan's lawyer and say that the police forced Brendan to say it.



K. The March 13, 2006, statements in a recorded telephone call from Steven Avery to Jodi Stachowski where Steven tells her that Brendan needs to stick to his first story.

Reading this really makes me feel relieved he is rotting away in prison never to be released.

JMO
 
Hi, I'm relatively new to WS and typically just lurk. However, I just finished watching MoM for the first time and thought I'd throw my hat in the ring here. IMO, if LE (or anyone, for that matter) wanted to frame SA, they would have planted better evidence and they wouldn't have been so brazen to bring her vehicle on his property. BD's bull**** testimony aside, I don't think anything went on in SA's trailer. My speculation: SA may have tried to get her in the trailer, but she declined to go inside. Perhaps he then told her he had another vehicle in the garage he wanted photographed and she willingly (or begrudgingly) went in there. That's where the assault/murder occurred (as evidence shows). He then put her body in the back of the RAV and dumped it in the fire pit behind the house; then drove the RAV to the spot where it was parked and hidden. Why her body wasn't put in the smelter, why her car wasn't crushed ASAP, etc., etc., is simply because he ran out of time before family came back/came home from work/came home from school. SA wasn't framed; when TH declined his advances, he raped her and killed her and disposed of her body. I know I am repeating a lot of the same conclusion(s) others have drawn, which means I am in good company :crazy:

Hi there, the cops never needed to frame him. He was a convicted felon with 2 firearms hanging on his bedroom wall.

When I first posted on WS about this case, I hadn't theorised much about not crushing the RAV, but after lots of research, I feel he intended to do it Saturday afternoon/evening but didn't count on Teresa being such a valued family member and friend. Imo, PS and Brutus are the heroes of this case.

JMO
 
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I'm not sure where the no contact order/request was? Would you happen to have a document that you are referencing? I could probably explain it if I saw it. I've seen so many and my memory is sometimes foggy. :blushing:
I haven't seen anyone post a link with direct evidence of a no contact order. There is a quote mentioned elsewhere on this thread but it is not validated with any documents, IMO.
 
Hi there, the cops never needed to frame him. He was a convicted felon with 2 firearms hanging on his bedroom wall.

This point is often overlooked or ignored in the furtherance of advancing the idea that various people were involved in framing Avery, when with one warrant and one visit he would have been nailed for this crime, and could have received years in prison (potentially up to 10 yrs). Yet in the 2 years since SA's release from prison not 1 cop ever checked Avery out to see if he was in compliance. The first time LE became aware that Avery had 2 weapons was when they were looking for the missing TH.
 
Reading this really makes me feel relieved he is rotting away in prison never to be released.

JMO

The additional value in having access to case documents such as these are we get to learn more about the evidence and in a way we didn't have before.

I don't know how much time was spent arguing whether SA really had a fire the night of Oct 31, but it wasn't an insignificant amount of time (IMO). And here SA himself said he did at least 3 different times, and he said it to more than 1 person and it's on recordings in his own voice.

Now juxtapose all the various statements SA was making to his family, including how Brendan needed to "stick to his first story" and overlay that with the assertions made that there's framing occurring.

SA is trying to get BD to shut up, he told his family to get BD to claim investigators were making him say things -- why the attempt to control and hide things if there's nothing to hide, and if no crime was committed in the first place? Why all the lies by Avery and BD?

What a lucky coincidence that, according to some, an entire crime was committed by someone else, then planted at Avery's, and multiple people are supposedly involved in some conspiracy to frame this innocent man, and at the same time Avery is doing and saying the very things that someone trying to cover up a crime would do, and lying about his activities, and later blaming his own brothers for framing him.
 
Another day Teresa's family & friends must find the strength to get through. I'm sure it never gets easier. x
 
The additional value in having access to case documents such as these are we get to learn more about the evidence and in a way we didn't have before.

I don't know how much time was spent arguing whether SA really had a fire the night of Oct 31, but it wasn't an insignificant amount of time (IMO). And here SA himself said he did at least 3 different times, and he said it to more than 1 person and it's on recordings in his own voice.

Now juxtapose all the various statements SA was making to his family, including how Brendan needed to "stick to his first story" and overlay that with the assertions made that there's framing occurring.

SA is trying to get BD to shut up, he told his family to get BD to claim investigators were making him say things -- why the attempt to control and hide things if there's nothing to hide, and if no crime was committed in the first place? Why all the lies by Avery and BD?

What a lucky coincidence that, according to some, an entire crime was committed by someone else, then planted at Avery's, and multiple people are supposedly involved in some conspiracy to frame this innocent man, and at the same time Avery is doing and saying the very things that someone trying to cover up a crime would do, and lying about his activities, and later blaming his own brothers for framing him.

The physical evidence tells us that SA committed the murder. These recorded phone calls are demolishing the planting theory to the point that they can not be twisted.

JMO
 
Another day Teresa's family & friends must find the strength to get through. I'm sure it never gets easier. x

I doubt there can ever be closure for the loved ones of a murder victim. At least they know her killer remains locked away, unable to physically hurt another female. Still, to have the sexual predator, abuser, torturer, killer celebrated as some kind of cuddly caring teddy bear must make them wonder what bizarro backwards world they inhabit.
 

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