Forensic reports in

[amethyst221]

I'm not discouraged by these pieces of the puzzle. Totally depressed about Caylee, but not for the state. Scientific reports don't speak in hyperbole or toss in lots of non-scientific conclusions. Their strength and credibility comes from not spinning, and saying no more than they can support. Keep in mind there was expert witness testimony at the GJ to put this in context and explain it to lay people. And there is other evidence. I really want to know who cleaned the car. Maybe it wasn't GA, who was packed off to work. I still can't settle on a theory about chloroform, but with explanation it might be obvious that this shows it was too much to be accounted for by decomp, and thus could have been used to cause death. It may not seem like a blockbuster, but I'm glad it wasn't found in MY car.

 

[Baznme]

The question for me, right now, is WHO has the evidence of who the baby daddy is... so far we know that LP says he knows who the father is.

Go here, for full discussion:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70290

My biggest question right now is whether LE actually "has" any such report in its possession. If LE doesn't have this evidence in its possession, custody or control, it has NO obligation to turn over something it doesn't have, right? SO, they may have a verbal from a third party they know and trust

Could it be another individual or group (think: LP privately, folks) has done the comparative testimg already ... if they "suspected" who the father was, and got a sample of his DNA without necessity of a court order or a formal consent (say, from a soda can that the suspected father threw away, etc.) AND then compared it with results the LE gave him of Caylee that were voluntarily turned over to LE by JG (who, if you remember had a paternity test done months after Caylee's birth) then they could very well know.

Just a sayin...

This claim of Dr. Baden and LP doesn't really have anything to do with this latest doc dump. Maybe that should be another thread.

 

[MagicRose99]

Was there something in the report I missed about them knowing who the father is? ...I am seeing all this talk about they know who the father is and did DNA testing on him, but I didn't read that anywhere......

What did I miss?????

TIA
Kel

I'm with you... I didn't read anything about paternal dna... I'm not sure how everyone got off topic...

 

[sweetwater]

I agree with you, I worry about the GA and CA, reading this report. The last thing they need is more false hope and Im reading the report the way you are.

Holy moly.

 

[cheko1]

Yes... good theory, but (and take it for whats its worth in this case regarding whos truthful and not) but GA said CA was pressuring him to return to work.... so he couldn't have been there to do the cleaning?

That is if & BIG IF .........they told the truth!
I don't think they know the meaning of the word.

 

[DianeB]

Was there something in the report I missed about them knowing who the father is? ...I am seeing all this talk about they know who the father is and did DNA testing on him, but I didn't read that anywhere......

What did I miss?????

TIA
Kel

It was one of the first comments made by Dr Baden when he did a segment on the findings on Fox about half an hour ago - that the identity of the father would be known based on these results, but that the info has not been released.

Very intriguing.

 

[mom4321]

How on earth could Baden say that the father's id is known??? There is nothing in these reports to indicate that they have done any testing regarding paternity???

didny they go visit that marine friend of caseys? maybe its him and he willingly gave dna.

 

[Pondering Mind]

Soil sample testing would not be included in the general heading of "debris," if that's what you saying. Specific soil tests are run and reported as such, whether combined in another report or on their own, they would NEVER be combined and referred to as "debris" in a report of this nature.

What would be considered "debris" in this case exactly?

 

[tehcloser]

Sorry, some one posted that Dr. Baden mentioned it while talking about these latest docs....did not mean to go off topic.

 

[Insomnia Momma]

Ok, he says about the 2.6 days. It appears as if this body was placed in the enclosed space of the trunk directly after death and left there in an unsealed container for 2 to 3 days per the test results. The body then could have remained in the enclosed space but was then placed in a recepticle to carry it, halting the decomp process on the fibers of the carpet in the trunk.

Many hairs were found, ONE with the death band/ The hair withthe death band also showed Chloroform in small traces. Interesting about the amout of Chloroform in the trunk, decomp DOES contain Chloroform but in miniscle amounts. With these results it shows someone had to have put pure choloroform in the trunk.

About the gasoline. It could only come in those levels if spilled or poured in the trunk, no way those vapors came from open containers, period. Which indicates to him that someone tried to clean with this agent.

The fact that there were 5 elements only found in human decomp is normal for this type of testing. Many of the agents WILL be similar to animals but will have other compounds that point to animal cadavers, NO other animal compounds were found, which concludes that this decomp can ONLY be human.

I asked abotu the sushi theroy so loved by some, he laughed at me. He said there is NO POSSIBLE way any of these compounds that point to human decomp come from fish, why do you think they compared it to a pig? The pig make-up is the closest to human found in the environment and NO OTHER pig elements were found ruling out a pig, where the hell do I get shushi from anyway? That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard (says him).

He also asked who *I* did in.... Nice.

He doesn't follow this case at all but said it's obvios to him that *whomever this Caylee is* she is dead, he body was in the car without being placed in any bag or anything for 2-3 days and choloroform was used either on her or in the trunk. Hair won't normally have cloroform in it even in trace amounts due to death so unless a trace amount was spilled on it it was chemically induced as in ingested prior to death, even more than once.

He said he'd like to see the fiber samples which would most likely contain skin samples from fluids that they can pull DNA from.


Ok, that's what I got before he had to leave.


Hope this helps!

 

[Blink34]

I know, I've resisted it, too. But it's pretty strong now, wouldn't you say?

NOT you too! I dont think I could win an argument with you- your too smart for me!! LP just overtalks me..lol

No I DO NOT think it is who he believes it is, but admittedly, he and TP think I am just naive on that issue. I am sticking to my original pick, which I think makes sense if you string the dates for testing, Baez motion, test results, etc, and have been pretty vocal about it. I think compelling also is that Kobi after being hired, pointed out specifically that the mtdna result could also be that of LA. He was not prompted on that, and if you were trying to deflect, you would not bring that up.

I took that to mean that they were of the opinion that LE was not going to be able to establish paternity, thus a complete DNA profile of the person owning the " decomposed hair". Thus, in there opinion, short of findind her remains- somewhat easily refutable evidence.

ALSO- THEIR IS/WAS a root on the sample... hint hint..

 

[Theonly1]

EVIDENCE - INTAKE VIA COLLECTION, SWORN STATMENTS, OR TESTING BY THE FBI IS NOT SUBJECT TO THE SAME DISCOVERY BURDEN AS THE STATE. WHAT WE ALL WISH TO SEE, WE WILL NOT UNTIL TRIAL. HOWEVER, REMEMBER THAT AGENT SAVAGE TESTIFIED BEFORE THE GJ, AGAIN, NOT SUBJECT TO DISCLOSURE TO THE DEFENSE.

.

I agree, Blink. I think what we are seeing is the tip of the iceberg. This is just the intial stuff the FBI and Body Farm tested. We haven't heard about the recovered trash bag from the trunk (from the tow yard), maggot evidence, or anything else that was seized or found. Plus, like Blink mentioned, this is just the FBI testing, and not the State's testing. Everyone has different disclosure.

 

[lizzysf]

I think that it means that the decomposition took place in an oxygen deprived environment, not that the body was deprived of oxygen, so it started to decompose. Maybe someone with a better grasp on this can confirm.

Also, I wish they would just release the father's id. I'll be watching Fox for sure!

In death, the body's cell no longer are oxygenated. There are both aerobic and anaerobic microorganisms....those that thrive in oxygen rich environments, and those that thrive in oxygen poor or oxygen absent environments. Anaerobic decomposition, therefore would occur in a decomposing body (non-oxygenated)...either human or animal. The compounds they found in the air sample showed 80% human related decompostion byproducts.
It has nothing to do with the body being oxygen deprived in any way other than by the cellular death and decomp process itself. Organic chemistry 101.

 

[LCoastMom]

Well that was my thought, could we be off on the date? However some have said the smell would only get stronger from any fluid that would have leaked in the car. I don't know we probably need someone with more knowledge of decomp to really answer this. But I am betting LE knows the approx. date of death.

Didn't the report/request LE sent to the GJ say 6-17?

Maybe I'm missing something, that you're seeing. If Caylee died 6-16/17, KC put her body in a bag in the trunk for 2.5 days, then removed her or put the bag into another container, one with a seal, once she realized the bag had leaked. Would this be possible?

After she dumps the body she attempts to clean the trunk but misses the fluid that soaks through the mat so the stench grows, it was the smell she was preventing George from not anything he would see.

 

[sandcastles4me]

Besides CA has anyone else read or heard there were maggots in the trunk? I know maggots would not be able to live on a old dried out pizza, but if there were maggots in the bag it would be very telling I would think.

 

[Chezhire]

who refused to take a dna test?

la...

 

[Nashville Grrrl]

OMG - I was just reading through some of KC-Amy texts last night and somewhere on there someone refers to "having space bag fun" or something. I thought it was AH when she was packing for PR.

And J.C. Penney in Florida is listed as a location on the space bag website...

https://www.spacebag.com/templates/spacebag/locator/index.php?state=FL

 

[AmyinTheHam]

OMG - I was just reading through some of KC-Amy texts last night and somewhere on there someone refers to "having space bag fun" or something. I thought it was AH when she was packing for PR.

OMG that is odd. I have not read the text stuff between the two. I have been trying to NOT be so obsessed with this case the last month.

 

[Theonly1]

Any scientists on board (and sorry if the following was asked and answered already): Can we assume that Caylee's bio-dad was likely not hispanic from the initial reports as only 1 person out of all their database who was hispanic had her type of markers. [I know that is not the question of the sample but one can draw conclusions.] Or am I reading this wrong?

 

[Baznme]

Soil sample testing would not be included in the general heading of "debris," if that's what you saying. Specific soil tests are run and reported as such, whether combined in another report or on their own, they would NEVER be combined and referred to as "debris" in a report of this nature.

If you will note, what I said was: I believe they MAY be under the guise of "debris". I am sure your statement is correct and it makes sense. The soil samples are probably a separate report. I remember the reporting of a soil sample in the trunk and I would think they would want any soil residue off the shovel also.