GA - Kendrick Johnson, 17, Suspicious Death, Jan. 10/11, 2013, #1

[JeannaT]

I honestly don't see how his face was in that condition even if he had suffocated. Then there are questions about what was he doing there at that time and how did he drop his shoe anyway.

Is the coroner's report available somewhere?

According to LE, he was completely face down - in a handstand type of position - for at least 24 hours.

That would make his face swell like that.

Those were my questions - what was he doing there, and how was he retrieving a shoe in between classes from the inside of a rolled up mat?

 

[jjenny]

And how did his shoe get inside the mat?

 

[gxm]

I'm on the fence with this case. On the one hand, it could be a freak accident. KJ could have returned to a (presumably) empty gym and tried to retrieve something out of the mat, and become stuck inside while no one was around. On the other hand, it seems really odd. If his shoe was in there, why didn't he get a teacher or friend to assist him with retrieving it. And how did his shoe get in there in the first place? And if these mats can be dangerous, rolled and stacked as they were, why are they stored out in the open where curious and fearless teenagers can get to them?

One thing that bothers me is that the parents have brought race into question. IMO, unless they feel (and have evidence) that this was a racially motivated hate crime, then they should have kept race out of it. I understand that they want more answers, but I don't think that using race to bring attention to the case was appropriate.

Lastly, due to gravity, blood pools to the bottommost portion of a dead body. My father was lying on his side for about the same amount of time that KJ was face down in the mat. All of the blood had pooled to one side of my father's face and he looked horrible, like he'd been beaten. So, IMO, the fact that KJ's face was swollen and bruised would be natural given the position of his body. The coroner would have been able to determine if KJ had been beaten, or not, by examining the state of the body tissues. The coroner says KJ was not beaten and, without further evidence, that's good enough for me.

 

[gxm]

I honestly don't see how his face was in that condition even if he had suffocated. Then there are questions about what was he doing there at that time and how did he drop his shoe anyway.

Is the coroner's report available somewhere?

It's due to gravity. Once the heart stops beating, blood pools at the bottommost portion of the body. Since KJ was upside down, it would have pooled in his head.

 

[gxm]

According to LE, he was completely face down - in a handstand type of position - for at least 24 hours.

That would make his face swell like that.

Those were my questions - what was he doing there, and how was he retrieving a shoe in between classes from the inside of a rolled up mat?

BBM

Those are important questions. How was he able to get into the gym and into the mat without anyone noticing? And why between classes…was he walking around with just one shoe on in the interim? That doesn't seem likely.

 

[time]

It's due to gravity. Once the heart stops beating, blood pools at the bottommost portion of the body. Since KJ was upside down, it would have pooled in his head.

Gotchas... I can understand that. It just looks like more or something different to me than swelling, but I hadn't realized at first he had been there that long and we are only seeing one picture.

The thought ran through my mind that maybe in addition, he had something like a latex allergy - of course, I don't know what the mats are made of.

 

[time]

BBM

Those are important questions. How was he able to get into the gym and into the mat without anyone noticing? And why between classes…was he walking around with just one shoe on in the interim? That doesn't seem likely.

Well, and no one happens to notice anything when this happened or finds him for a while.

 

[JeannaT]

Well, and no one happens to notice anything when this happened or finds him for a while.

I think he probably had "positional asphyxia", and so was unable to draw in enough air to scream for help. My guess is he died fairly quickly if this happened as it's being reported.

 

[amandab]

Sounds to me (jmo, jmo, JMO) that he was rolled up into the mat by schoolmates and left there.

 

[JeannaT]

Sounds to me (jmo, jmo, JMO) that he was rolled up into the mat by schoolmates and left there.

That seems most likely to me, too. As kind of a funny mean prank.

 

[jjenny]

That seems most likely to me, too. As kind of a funny mean prank.

If that was the case then it's not really funny, is it? Considering that he is dead. I do think that somebody doing it to him is more plausible than him somehow managing to get into the mat.

 

[JeannaT]

If that was the case then it's not really funny, is it? Considering that he is dead.

No, it's not funny.

I remember in the last 10 years there was a case of a therapist who rolled a child into an area rug, as a form of therapy. She was trying to replicate what Temple Grandin advocates for pressure therapy, in an effort to help the child control her nerves. Like a swaddling thing during an OT visit. The mom was there, they rolled the little girl up to "hold" her in the mat and she was dead within about 3 minutes. Horrible. It wasn't like a punishment thing, the girl wasn't tantrumming, they were really just trying to swaddle her for comfort.

Obviously, this isn't the same type thing but it could be someone just trying to play a funny joke.

Interesting that the school refuses to hand over the video of those entering the gym at that time.

 

[jjenny]

No, it's not funny.

I remember in the last 10 years there was a case of a therapist who rolled a child into an area rug, as a form of therapy. She was trying to replicate what Temple Grandin advocates for pressure therapy, in an effort to help the child control her nerves. Like a swaddling thing during an OT visit. The mom was there, they rolled the little girl up to "hold" her in the mat and she was dead within about 3 minutes. Horrible.

Obviously, this isn't the same type thing but it could be someone just trying to play a funny joke.

Interesting that the school refuses to hand over the video of those entering the gym at that time.

Rolling someone into a mat resulting in their death would be a crime.
Not a funny joke.
I am not sure how school can just refuse to hand over the video-can't police demand it? Where did you hear that school refuses to hand over the video?

 

[JeannaT]

Rolling someone into a mat resulting in their death would be a crime.
Not a funny joke.
I am not sure how school can just refuse to hand over the video-can't police demand it? Where did you hear that school refuses to hand over the video?

I certainly never intended to irritate you so much, Jenny.

My apologies. Peace.

The school is refusing to hand the video to the family, who want to see what he appeared like going in to the gym, although they have information that such a video exists.

 

[gxm]

Does anyone know whether he was rolled up in a mat towards the outside of the group of mats or towards the inside? What I'm trying to determine is whether someone would have had to place other rolled up mats around him or was he found on the perimeter. Because if he was found in the center of the stack, that would be a lot of effort and I just don't see how it would be the work of one person. Now, if it were a mean prank, it could involve several kids. And, if he died quickly, due to positional suffocation, then maybe they tried to cover it up by arranging more mats around him to make it look like an accident. One would hope they'd have tried to revive him, but teenagers can be impulsive.

If he had been attacked and killed outside of the mat, it seems like a really odd place to hide the body unless the killers had to work fast and couldn't move the body. Which would mean he was killed in the gym during school hours. And I can't imagine there would not be witnesses if that is the case.

 

[gxm]

I certainly never intended to irritate you so much, Jenny.

My apologies. Peace.

The school is refusing to hand the video to the family, who want to see what he appeared like going in to the gym, although they have information that such a video exists.

Is the school saying "no, you can't see it," or are they saying that no such video exists?

 

[momrids6]

Wrestling mats are notoriously heavy- it takes quite a few wrestlers to roll them up.

In Ga, kids are required to wear sneakers / tennis shoes for gym. He may have removed his after gym class- and tossed them, one landing into the mat. He had "street" shoes to walk to next class- until he had the time to retrieve the shoe that went into the hole of the mat. Or vice versa=set his street shoes on top of mat and one fell in- so he wore the gym shoes around campus.

also- he was in handstand position as a poster upthread stated- his arms were by his ears, not down like his father is positioned in that picture.

 

[JeannaT]

Does anyone know whether he was rolled up in a mat towards the outside of the group of mats or towards the inside? What I'm trying to determine is whether someone would have had to place other rolled up mats around him or was he found on the perimeter. Because if he was found in the center of the stack, that would be a lot of effort and I just don't see how it would be the work of one person. Now, if it were a mean prank, it could involve several kids. And, if he died quickly, due to positional suffocation, then maybe they tried to cover it up by arranging more mats around him to make it look like an accident. One would hope they'd have tried to revive him, but teenagers can be impulsive.

If he had been attacked and killed outside of the mat, it seems like a really odd place to hide the body unless the killers had to work fast and couldn't move the body. Which would mean he was killed in the gym during school hours. And I can't imagine there would not be witnesses if that is the case.

I think the cause of death was pretty clear - asphyxiation without any other notable injuries -

Your other question, I read the school and LE are refusing to make the video available to the family. Don't know who's made that decision.

 

[gxm]

I think the cause of death was pretty clear - asphyxiation without any other notable injuries -

Your other question, I read the school and LE are refusing to make the video available to the family. Don't know who's made that decision.

Do you know where the mat he was found in was placed? Was it in the perimeter or center? I agree with the coroner's report, I'm just trying to suss out the alternatives that the family is suggesting. I'm also open to the possibility that KJ did not get himself inside the mat, and even if others put him in the mat as a prank or dare, the cause of death would have been the same. I find it odd that he could slip into the gym, and get himself wedged inside the mat, unnoticed. Not impossible, but certainly suspect. JMO, OMO, MOO, etc.

 

[JeannaT]

I don't know the position of the mats, except to say his mat was vertical.

This happened between classes - it seems to me it is likely he was the only one in the gym at that time. Kids wouldn't be leaving the gym - they'd be leaving and entering the dressing room it seems. Also, it might be unlikely that someone walking through the gym on the way to a class would notice a classmate over in the corner trying to fish out a shoe.

But they WOULD notice someone pranking a student by rolling them in a mat and struggling to get a heavy mat and a man size student upright. Hm. That would take several people and be very loud.

The family seems only focused - in m opinion - on their belief he was beaten which really doesn't seem to be the case IMHO.