GA - Troy Davis fails to prove his innocence to Supreme Court

[HRCODEPINK]

No code of conduct was breached...so he is due to die on Wednesday because there is no reason to stay his execution.

Well there is that little thing regarding his possible innocence, but again no legal reason to prevent his execution.

I am so sorry for all involved.

Me too. :tears: In a case such as this one, at the very least I see no reason why his sentence should not, at the very least be commuted to Life. Sadly, this is the reason that I had to stop my volunteer work after I had my kids. It was just too upsetting and overwhelmingly depressing when the state would kill people that I truly believed to be innocent. I am a legal studies major now and the only case I still even remotely involve myself in is one in Virginia where the doubts over the man's guilt caused the governor to recommend a new trial and remove the person from death row and commute his sentence to Life with parole. I have been working the case 12 years off and on but don't get overly involved because it is so upsetting that procedure can keep a person in prison for something they evidence shows they did not commit. My friend, who is still in some 32 years after being convicted and 20 years after the governor doubted his guilt is denied parole every year. Their reasoning for denial is the nature of the crime. They are not allowed to take evidence on innocence into account either.

I don't know if Troy Davis is guilty or not. I was not there and I have no read the record. However, in an effort to ensure that there is no chance that an innocent person is murdered by the state of GA tomorrow night I will be hoping for a miracle for Troy and his family.
raying:

This is also the reason that I went from being a super strong supporter of the death penalty, who believed that it should not only be used more often, but should be used faster to one that is opposed in all cases, regardless of the situation. There is just too much risk and there would be no true way to sort out the truly guilty from the innocent. If they could do that, we wouldn't see these things happening.

 

[Gardenlady]

I've always been anti death penalty, for moral reasons... Yes, even in cases where it's nearly a 100% sure thing. But it's these cases, where there is a large degree of doubt about guilt, that are the worst to stomach.

When will we, as a nation, realize that we are destroying ourselves with this lust for vengeance? Revenge killing isn't justice!

This makes me so sick to think about.

Here is a prayer written by Sr Helen Prejean (author of Dead Man Walking, and anti-DP activist). Something to take to heart in the hours leading up to Troy Davis's murder:

God of Compassion
You let your rain fall on the just and the unjust.
Expand and deepen our hearts
so that we may love as You love,
even those among us
who have caused the greatest pain by taking life.
For there is in our land a great cry for vengeance
as we fill up death row and kill the killers
in the name of justice, in the name of peace.
Jesus, our brother,
you suffered execution at the hands of the state
but you did not let hatred overcome you
Help us to reach out to victims of violence
so that our enduring love may help them heal.
Holy Spirit of God,
You strengthen us in the struggle for justice,
Help us to work tirelessly
for the abolition of state-sanctioned death
and to renew our society in its very heart
so that violence will be no more.
Amen.

 

[belimom]

I go back and forth between being pro-/anti-death penalty. In cases like the Petit case (2nd man on trial now), I really feel it is justified. There is just so much evidence. Even confessions, etc. And it was such heinous crime. I am not saying that shooting an officer and killing him is *not* heinous - it is also terrible. But I feel that the evidence isn't overwhelming in this case against Troy Davis. Not enough to justify the death penalty. JMHO.

Being a Georgia native, I really wish this would not happen. :no:

 

[believe09]

I think commutation is a great solution. For now.

It is going to be tough to take back killing him if they figure out he is innocent later, or at least the possibility that he is.

 

[katydid23]

"The court concludes that while executing an innocent person would violate the United States constitution, Mr. Davis has failed to prove his innocence," a judge on the court in Savannah wrote.

This case is disgusting on many levels, starting with police officers who would coerce false witnesses to accuse someone of murder, but you know what really burns me up?

That statement I quoted from the article has me sitting here with a dropped jaw and a bruised sense of belief in our justice system. If a judge on the Georgia Supreme Court is stupid enough to believe that someone must prove their innocence rather than the state prove guilt, we are in a bad, bad spot. It is a constitutional right to be assumed innocent until proven guilty. This man's problem was that he was found guilty due to the lies of nine men, and the GSC should have overturned the verdict because if the witnesses lied, then he was hardly "proven guilty."

I don't know if this man is innocent or guilty, but I do know there were serious problems with the prosecution of the case, and JUSTICE deserves better than this.

It is cases like this that have forced me to come to the knowledge that our justice system is way too flawed to be trusted with the right to inflict the death penalty.

Right, but as you said, a man is innocent until PROVEN GUILTY. And this man was found guilty in a court of law. So the court was correct in their statement.

I do think the man may be innocent however. And it pains me to think he may be put to death unjustly.

 

[Velouria]

Right, but as you said, a man is innocent until PROVEN GUILTY. And this man was found guilty in a court of law. So the court was correct in their statement.

I do think the man may be innocent however. And it pains me to think he may be put to death unjustly.

So did I, katydid. Admittedly, I'd never heard of this case until it hit the media a couple of days ago. Then UdbCrzy2's post caused me to dig a bit deeper into the facts. I found this article:

http://crimevictimsmediareport.com/?s=troy+davis

IMO, it sounds like Mr. Davis was fairly convicted.

 

[belimom]

Excellent opinion piece by a former US Rep from Georgia:

Ruling to execute Troy Davis violates core principles

Editor's note: Bob Barr is a former U.S. attorney for the Northern District of Georgia and was elected to four terms in the U.S. Congress.

(CNN) -- Only the Georgia Board of Pardons and Paroles stood between life and death for Troy Anthony Davis, and the core principles of American jurisprudence should have been the board's guide. But the board ignored those principles in denying Davis clemency.

Davis was convicted in 1991 of the 1989 murder of Savannah police officer Mark MacPhail. But the trial included no physical evidence to support his conviction. The prosecution produced no murder weapon, no DNA evidence and no surveillance tapes.
......
Proving innocence is far more difficult than establishing doubts as to one's guilt and flips our system of criminal jurisprudence on its head.
......
Davis was unable to meet this nearly insurmountable task. But while he fell short of "proving" his innocence, he established doubts as to his guilt, prompting the judge to concede the state's case against him was "not ironclad."
......
That was the final admirable principle standing between Davis and his scheduled death by lethal injection Wednesday. And the parole board did not uphold it.

Full article: http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/20/opinion/barr-davis-ruling-wrong/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

 

[katydid23]

Okay, after reading more about this suspect, I feel a little less upset about any possible upcoming penalties. I originally thought it was a false accusation, and a witness picking a truly innocent person by false identification.

But the bullets that killed the officer MATCHED the bullets that the suspect used to shoot another man earlier in the evening. And then he was beating a homeless man, and the cop tried to intervene, when he was shot. Hmmmmmm....I may not be losing that much sleep afterall. Sorry. But it sounds like he may be the guilty party. The Bullets Match.

 

[belimom]

So did I, katydid. Admittedly, I'd never heard of this case until it hit the media a couple of days ago. Then UdbCrzy2's post caused me to dig a bit deeper into the facts. I found this article:

http://crimevictimsmediareport.com/?s=troy+davis

IMO, it sounds like Mr. Davis was fairly convicted.

I read the link you posted, and I agree with some of but disagree with other parts, such as this quote below:

As I’ve said before, oppose the death penalty on grounds of universal ethics, or opposition to state-administered death, but when you make a faux hero out of a murderous, worthless criminal like Troy Davis, you are doing so at the cost of the humanity and dignity of the real victims.

I don't believe anyone is trying to make a hero out of Troy Davis. I think what others - or, at least myself - is doing is questioning the evidence or lack of or whatever you want to call it. He may in fact be guilty, but there is also a chance that he may be innocent. It may be a small chance, but based on that alone, I'm against the death penalty... in this case. JMHO

 

[Cappuccino]

He may be innocent, he may be guilty. They should at least take another look at the case before they kill him.

 

[katydid23]

He may be innocent, he may be guilty. They should at least take another look at the case before they kill him.

That is what my initially thoughts were too. But after reading more recently, I can see that they did do a lot of investigating. And the witnesses MAY have been pressured, but it seems that it might have been because the cops knew he was guilty and they wanted him to pay for killing another cop. It does not seem like they picked an innocent man and tried to place the blame there.

He shot another man earlier in the evening, in front of many witnesses, and the same bullets from that gun were used to shoot the cop later that night.
He admits to beating a homeless man, and that the cop tried to stop him from doing so. So he puts himself there at the scene, with a motive as well. But he claims another man, who was standing nearby did the actual shooting of the cop. But the bullets from his earlier shooting matched the ones pulled from the dead cop. And he was the one that the cop was confronting at the time.

I think they got their man.

 

[Cappuccino]

You could well be right, probably are right. However...execution is pretty irreversible, and I'm uncomfortable with those pressurised witnesses. Cops are only human, if one of their colleagues is killed in cold blood they will obviously do everything humanly possible to get the killer. If they were willing to pressurise witnesses into false testimony, what else did they do with other evidence?

He probably is guilty, but personally speaking, I wouldn't be sure enough to stick the lethal injection in.

 

[belimom]

(snipped)

I think they got their man.

I think so, too. But I'm not 100 percent convinced. And that's the issue I'm having. MOO

 

[Silkprint]

I do think he is guilty .
I cannot imagine the fear though of facing the death penalty and those final moments of hoping that the phone rings . He probably does deserve it but it still bothers me on some level .
This really isnt a death penalty thread so I will hush...maybe there should be one though?

 

[HRCODEPINK]

Just an FYI on the two people who have not recanted. As I said before, I have no idea if he is guilty or not, but according to a Facebook note from one of my state Congressmen, one of the two people who have not confessed was the person that is suspected to be the real perpetrator and I assume the one who bragged about the crime:

"WASHINGTON, DC – Congressman Robert C. "Bobby" Scott (D-VA-03), Ranking Member of the Crime, Terrorism and Homeland Security Subcommittee on the House Judiciary Committee, issued the following statement on the Georgia state Board of Pardons and Paroles' denial of clemency for death-row inmate Troy Davis:

“It is tragic that under our current system of law the fact that there is no credible evidence that Troy Davis is guilty of murder is insufficient to stop his execution. Since his conviction, seven of the nine witnesses in the case against Davis have recanted, and one of the others is suspected of being the actual perpetrator, while no physical evidence has tied Davis to the crime. Under the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act, the burden is on the defendant to prove actual innocence by 'clear and convincing evidence.' This standard is more stringent than preponderance of the evidence and so a defendant demonstrating that he is probably innocent will not meet this burden. Lack of evidence of guilt is not affirmative evidence of innocence. Troy Davis demonstrated that the evidence against him left serious reasonable doubt of his guilt, but unfortunately, he has apparently been unable to prove with clear and convincing evidence that he is actually innocent. There is something fundamentally wrong with our system when someone may be put to death when the evidence we have available today casts serious doubt about his guilt."

https://www.facebook.com/notes/cong...r-death-row-inmate-troy-davis/262819120415204

His wording on this and the bazillion other articles I read today lead me to wonder how the casing from the bullets were matched to Troy Davis. I cannot find anything that states specifically, but I did see on a couple of articles that there may have been some problems with the ballistics report. I sure wish I could see it.

 

[HRCODEPINK]

That is what my initially thoughts were too. But after reading more recently, I can see that they did do a lot of investigating. And the witnesses MAY have been pressured, but it seems that it might have been because the cops knew he was guilty and they wanted him to pay for killing another cop. It does not seem like they picked an innocent man and tried to place the blame there.

Respectfully snipped for relevance by me!

With all due respect and not being snarky at all, I have a serious problem with the cops doing anything that is inappropriate because they "knew he was guilty." If we, as a society, accept these types of things and accept that Constitutional rights can be violated under any circumstances, we are sealing our own fate. People ask me how I can even consider being a defense attorney with my tough on crime attitude. They ask me how I can defend people that I know to be guilty, just because their rights are being violated. One thing we have to remember is that we live under a system of equal protection and when it is ruled that something unconstitutional is okay in one case, we rule that this is the case in all situations that are similar. I tell people that when I have completed school and appear to be defending guilty people whose rights have been violated, I am NOT defending the person. I am defending the Constitution.

 

[katydid23]

Respectfully snipped for relevance by me!

With all due respect and not being snarky at all, I have a serious problem with the cops doing anything that is inappropriate because they "knew he was guilty." If we, as a society, accept these types of things and accept that Constitutional rights can be violated under any circumstances, we are sealing our own fate. People ask me how I can even consider being a defense attorney with my tough on crime attitude. They ask me how I can defend people that I know to be guilty, just because their rights are being violated. One thing we have to remember is that we live under a system of equal protection and when it is ruled that something unconstitutional is okay in one case, we rule that this is the case in all situations that are similar. I tell people that when I have completed school and appear to be defending guilty people whose rights have been violated, I am NOT defending the person. I am defending the Constitution.

I agree. I am not condoning or defending it if it happened that way. All I am saying is that it is possible for some witnesses to have felt coerced, AND for the suspect to be guilty. They are not mutually exclusive.

My father was a defense attorney. I grew up watching firsthand some very hinky behavior by some in the LE. I do not condone it. But at the same time they sometimes feel they are at war with the rights of the accused. My father HATED it when he helped release a guilty perp who might reoffend. It took a part of his soul at times. But he believed in the justice system and recognized it had to be that way sometimes.

 

[Cappuccino]

I'm sure that does feel soul destroying for a defense attorney, but at the same time there is wisdom in the old adage that its better to let ten guilty men go free than convict one innocent.

 

[HRCODEPINK]

I agree. I am not condoning or defending it if it happened that way. All I am saying is that it is possible for some witnesses to have felt coerced, AND for the suspect to be guilty. They are not mutually exclusive.

My father was a defense attorney. I grew up watching firsthand some very hinky behavior by some in the LE. I do not condone it. But at the same time they sometimes feel they are at war with the rights of the accused. My father HATED it when he helped release a guilty perp who might reoffend. It took a part of his soul at times. But he believed in the justice system and recognized it had to be that way sometimes.

That's awesome katydid23! I understand you completely. I don't know if Troy Davis is guilty and I don't know what to think at this point. All I know for sure at this point is that I wish the death penalty weren't so irreversible.

I have actually been considering working the prosecution side instead because I know that if I worked that side, no one's rights would be violated on any cases that I was on. I hate to see guilty people go free as well and I don't know how I will deal with it except with the knowledge that the Framers felt that it was better for the guilty to go free than to have an innocent suffer. I always feel it is better to err on the side of caution and I think that your father was probably a very ethical and very awesome individual. We could use more of your dad, and less Jose Baez.

 

[HRCODEPINK]

I'm sure that does feel soul destroying for a defense attorney, but at the same time there is wisdom in the old adage that its better to let ten guilty men go free than convict one innocent.

Ha! Too funny! I was just saying the same thing...

Still looking to see if I can find anything on the bullet casings that is definitive. If anyone sees it, please post so I can go look. I am also curious about the other person that he was convicted of shooting that night and if he admits to that shooting, or if they convicted him based on the casings matching this case.