Garrote
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Betsy
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Was it actual "experimenting", or was it a case of "I'll show you mine if you show me yours"?
Back to the garrote for a minute.
I mentioned before I tested this out.
I made the same knot.
I made an interesting discovery: it's quite easy to tighten the noose with this knot, NOT so easy to loosen it again. So, a person who didn't know someone was still alive could have put in on them, and it worked like a python.
I mentioned before I tested this out.
I made the same knot.
I made an interesting discovery: it's quite easy to tighten the noose with this knot, NOT so easy to loosen it again. So, a person who didn't know someone was still alive could have put in on them, and it worked like a python.
I just made a garrotte using ribbon. I wanted to see if the 17" lead was too long. It's not. I'm 6' tall and medium build. If I were killing someone with this device, I'd make it shorter than 17" - probably about 12". But there is just no truth to the idea that 17" is too long. It's still quite effective.
How did you do it?
When I did it, I was holding down thr subject with one arm and pulling the thing with the other. I was not able to put enough weight, I thought, on the subject (it was a dummy, don't get nervous) to restrain them and pull back on the thing at the same time. Not only that, but you'd need a third arm to do the molestation!
When I did it, I was holding down thr subject with one arm and pulling the thing with the other. I was not able to put enough weight, I thought, on the subject (it was a dummy, don't get nervous) to restrain them and pull back on the thing at the same time. Not only that, but you'd need a third arm to do the molestation!
Veronica10
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Not sure if I've seen this mentioned before...John was a sailor. Didn't they boat in Michigan in the summers? Making this kind of knot or many other types would have been commonplace for him. They had the Miss America sailing boat, right? Wasn't he also in the Navy? Part of the Ramsey defense was the complexity of the knot. First off, I'm not so sure it was that the knot was exceptionally complex and second, John Ramsey (if true regarding sailing and naval history) could have made a thousand types of knots in his sleep. Help me out here, someone.
Nuisanceposter
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You're absolutely right.
angelwngs
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I have read on this forum threads discussing the garotte knot and the fact that BR was a Boy Scout and the fact that JR's hobby was sailing. If I remember correctly, the general feeling of posters was that the garotte knot was so pitifully constructed as it should have been to have functioned as a garotte, that it was assumed that whoever constructed it had a limited knowledge of knot tying, (at least in reference to the proper construction of a garotte). If you are interested in what other posters here have said about this subject, you could do a search of the threads in this forum and locate all the discussion on the "knot" construction, I imagine.Veronica10 said:
Help is one the way!
1) The knot was not complex. Michael Kane said on "Dan Abrams" that the knots were so simple a child could make them. (Not in those exact words, btw.)
2) Yes, John was a Navy man and a sailing enthusiast. That's kind of why I don't think he did it: he wouldn't have used such simple knots.
Veronica10 said:
The knot wasn't complex at all. Criticism of the knot has largely been that it wouldn't slip - thus allowing the "noose" end to become bigger again. This would have worked very effectively to strangle (which it did) but not very well for the kinky practice of "breath play". It was assumed by many, and still is by some, that the garrote was for breath play. It wouldn't have worked well for that purpose.
People put way way to much stock in the idea that everyone who's served in the Navy is a knot tying expert. Many people in the Navy never tie a knot after boot camp.
Another point - it makes no sense to say someone didn't tie a knot because his sailing knowledge would have led him to make a better one. You can always dumb-down your knowledge. IOW, a knot tying expert could always make a simple knot so as not to reveal his true knowledge. One can never smart-up, only dumb-down.
kactres said:
kactres,
I suspect all three resident Ramsey's would be familiar with knotting.
If John Ramsey adjusted JonBenet's staging, its also possible that the arrangement of the cord was changed from some prior configuration to what was finally discovered.
Considering that there are next to no contusions or abrasions surrounding the ligature, then its possible that the ligature was applied minus the garrote, which may have been added later, so the initial configuration of the cord and possibly JonBenet's posture may have been different?
Remember she was wiped down and sexually assaulted, by the paintbrush handle or finger, the choice is yours, all this entails movement of her body either prior to her relocation or after?
That is, it is not as simple as assuming she was supine on her back as the garrote was applied, if rigor mortis had set in, she would have had to be turned around to be wiped down. Either way it demonstrates that the staging is more complex than appears?
.
"Another point - it makes no sense to say someone didn't tie a knot because his sailing knowledge would have led him to make a better one. You can always dumb-down your knowledge. IOW, a knot tying expert could always make a simple knot so as not to reveal his true knowledge. One can never smart-up, only dumb-down."
Just suggesting that a man with extensive knot knowledge might get the idea that a simple knot would be too suspicious.
Just suggesting that a man with extensive knot knowledge might get the idea that a simple knot would be too suspicious.