General Discussion #7

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I do have to revise my theory a bit, but I still don't think that Raven would have watched her die. I think that he would have run around trying to make sure they couldn't find him guilty.

I've always wondered if he took that time to change clothes, maybe to collect items in a bag, wash up in the bathroom. There was a swabbing done from the bathroom floor but I don't know if anything ever came of it.

 

[SouthEastSleuth]

I have to disagree with you on this one. Any life insurance they had was as a result of Janet's employment. Don't forget that they didn't have enough money to pay their rent due to being unemployed. When times get tough, the first things that lose priority are the nonessential items, like life insurance. Besides, it's not even in Raven's genes to be responsible enough to actually take out a voluntary life insurance policy.

Regarding the payout, it may be on hold if the insurer has communicated with LE and determined that the beneficiary is a person of interest.

I don't think we really have any way to know this as fact, at least at this point. But, I have a couple of thoughts too -


- Just out of curiosity, I just ran an online quote for life insurance... for a female of Janet's age, in NC, and in good health, and a non-smoker, the annual premium for say $150,000 in term life ends up being anywhere from $87.50 to $130.00, for a year.

That said, many couples often take out life insurance, in addition to whatever might be provided by an employer, especially after the birth of a child. So it would certainly seem possible that Raven and Janet took out policies, independent of their jobs. And, if the policies were taken out months before Janet was murdered, when they were both still employed full-time, etc., it's not unreasonable to think that they could have paid a year's premium, in entirety, at that time.

I can certainly see that once times got tight financially that paying a life insurance premium might not have been high on the list of priorities. But, if an ANNUAL premium had been paid months before, then there could certainly have been policies in force at the time of Janet's murder.


And to take it even a step further - IF Raven was truly premeditating Janet's murder for a good while, and he knew there was a policy, even then I can see that he might come up with the money to keep the policy current, knowing that perhaps he was the beneficiary of said policy....

I totally agree though regarding pay-out of ANY policy. Any life insurance company would be reluctant to pay a death claim in a homicide, if there's even any inkling that the beneficiary might be involved in any way whatsoever. If there is a policy, I'd bet money that no one has seen a pay-out at this point!

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I agree. We have no idea one way or the other if Janet or Raven had policies outside of work.

IMO, Janet seemed very responsible and she seemed to have adored her baby. Since she was the primary breadwinner (at times the solo breadwinner) with a brand new baby in the house, my guess would be that the ten dollars or so a month (often paid quarterly or semi-annually) wasn't considered out of reach or frivolous. I suspect that there was a policy and I suspect that if Raven is the beneficiary, that that money has not been paid out and will not be paid out until Raven is officially cleared as a POI. I don't think, however, that that would have prevented Raven from asking for it.

 

[Jenifred]

OMG, if there was blood inside the Durango and raven still wasn't arrested

But remember eww, Raven concocted the story about trying to find a cell phone--I assume this was to explain why there was blood inside the car. We know that something was swabbed inside the Durango. What it was, we still don't know.

 

[SouthEastSleuth]

But remember eww, Raven concocted the story about trying to find a cell phone--I assume this was to explain why there was blood inside the car. We know that something was swabbed inside the Durango. What it was, we still don't know.

Actually, if you recall the story Rooster told - Raven had Janet's blood on him, ran to the Durango looking for a phone, and presumably deposited blood on the EXTERIOR of the Durango (the first warrant mentions swabbings from the exterior driver's door and the exterior driver's window), the Durango was locked, and he ran back in the house, presumable finding a phone at that point, and made the call to 911. And again, this is the story that Rooster posted here at WS.

Later, on the second warrant (where the Durango was actually taken by LE), there are references to swabbings and samples being taken from the INTERIOR of the Durango. And keep in mind, according to media reports at the time, the second warrant was executed after LE had questioned Raven a second time. So SOMETHING Raven said (or perhaps didn't say!) in that second interview led LE to want to look more closely at the Durango.

THE question, I think anyway, has always been - what did Raven tell LE, regarding the Durango - did he say he only touched the EXTERIOR while looking for a phone? Did he says he actually got back inside the Durango at some point? Or, did he say he never entered the Durango, period.

AND - IF Raven said he never got in the Durango, yet, LE found evidence of blood inside, well, that's not rocket science. Now, that said, even if Raven said, 'I never went in the Durango,' I suppose it's always possible that he later changed that story too, in the vein of, 'everything was happening so quickly, I FORGOT, I DID go inside the Durango.' Convenient, for sure, but, I suppose possible anyway.

 

[lauriej]

yep..the durango, inside and out, certainly piqued LE's interest.....

..and didn't LE also take the "sports bottle/gatorade-type bottle" from Inside the durango? presumably with blood on it ?( the bottle he had either to or from the soccer game?)

..i think that raven was trying to cover the obvious, while over-looking the 'small stuff'............he's probably kicking himself now for wiping down the entire interior of that vehicle, and yet forgetting the 'sports-bottle'............does it for me.

 

[lauriej]

I agree. We have no idea one way or the other if Janet or Raven had policies outside of work.

IMO, Janet seemed very responsible and she seemed to have adored her baby. Since she was the primary breadwinner (at times the solo breadwinner) with a brand new baby in the house, my guess would be that the ten dollars or so a month (often paid quarterly or semi-annually) wasn't considered out of reach or frivolous. I suspect that there was a policy and I suspect that if Raven is the beneficiary, that that money has not been paid out and will not be paid out until Raven is officially cleared as a POI. I don't think, however, that that would have prevented Raven from asking for it.

..i agree.......also, i don't neccessarily think that we'd know at this point if there WAS a policy...( since the media isn't throwing that out there) but i do think, based on a few posters here "in the know" regarding raven/and family, that we'd know if there had been a pay-out.........

 

[snapple]

yep..the durango, inside and out, certainly piqued LE's interest.....

..and didn't LE also take the "sports bottle/gatorade-type bottle" from Inside the durango? presumably with blood on it ?( the bottle he had either to or from the soccer game?)

..i think that raven was trying to cover the obvious, while over-looking the 'small stuff'............he's probably kicking himself now for wiping down the entire interior of that vehicle, and yet forgetting the 'sports-bottle'............does it for me.

What I don't understand is how raven could of had time to wipe down the inside of the vehicle so well that there wouldn't be traces of blood in there. And I have to assume there wasn't traces of blood in there, because otherwise that evidence along with TOD should be enough to name him as a POI and arrest him.

 

[Jenifred]

Actually, if you recall the story Rooster told - Raven had Janet's blood on him, ran to the Durango looking for a phone, and presumably deposited blood on the EXTERIOR of the Durango (the first warrant mentions swabbings from the exterior driver's door and the exterior driver's window), the Durango was locked, and he ran back in the house, presumable finding a phone at that point, and made the call to 911. And again, this is the story that Rooster posted here at WS.

I thought Raven made it into the Durango during the search for the cell phone. And I thought that was the reason why they couldn't arrest him for the fact that there was blood in the car, TOD, etc. like snapple said.

Anyone got that post handy from Rooster?

 

[LTUlegal]

I thought Raven made it into the Durango during the search for the cell phone. And I thought that was the reason why they couldn't arrest him for the fact that there was blood in the car, TOD, etc. like snapple said.

Anyone got that post handy from Rooster?

I knew I could find it! http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=680500#post680500

This blood is from Raven Running to get his phone out of the durango...After he found Janet...tried to save her

...ran outside(getting blood on the door) to get his phone from the Durango. The door was locked...back inside to get Janets phone or keys to the Durango.

This evidance will not "hang" Raven. LE knows all of this...still, Raven has not been arrested or charged or named a susspect. He is innocent!

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

All we really know about the Durango that night is what Rooster told us. And according to Rooster, Raven allegedly ran to the car for his phone, realized the door was locked and ran back in the house for his keys before he miraculously came across Janet's phone (eliminating the need to go back out to the locked car). It seems like a very convenient reason as to why there would be blood on the outside of the Durango. What we don't know, however, is what Raven said to LE. Perhaps he said one thing to Rooster and another to LE; perhaps he didn't tell Rooster anything and Rooster just made up a bunch of nothing simply to have something to say or to seem as if s/he is in the know. The bottom line is that we don't know if Raven actually said or did any of that or if there was blood anywhere on the Durango, inside or out.

 

[ewwwinteresting]

All we really know about the Durango that night is what Rooster told us. And according to Rooster, Raven allegedly ran to the car for his phone, realized the door was locked and ran back in the house for his keys before he miraculously came across Janet's phone (eliminating the need to go back out to the locked car). It seems like a very convenient reason as to why there would be blood on the outside of the Durango. What we don't know, however, is what Raven said to LE. Perhaps he said one thing to Rooster and another to LE; perhaps he didn't tell Rooster anything and Rooster just made up a bunch of nothing simply to have something to say or to seem as if s/he is in the know. The bottom line is that we don't know if Raven actually said or did any of that or if there was blood anywhere on the Durango, inside or out.

This is what I think. Rooster never said anything as fact (except he/she tried to make fact that raven grieved appropriately at the funeral - which numerous other posters have said otherwise). Rooster said a bunch of things and then left, not substantiating any of it.:chicken:

 

[terminatrixator]

This is what I think. Rooster never said anything as fact (except he/she tried to make fact that raven grieved appropriately at the funeral - which numerous other posters have said otherwise). Rooster said a bunch of things and then left, not substantiating any of it.:chicken:

I agree also!

 

[SouthEastSleuth]

This is what I think. Rooster never said anything as fact (except he/she tried to make fact that raven grieved appropriately at the funeral - which numerous other posters have said otherwise). Rooster said a bunch of things and then left, not substantiating any of it.:chicken:

As JG points out in the preceding post, we have no idea what Raven himself told LE that night, as far as the Durango, etc. I've always believed, however, that some of what Rooster came here and posted, at least as far as the 'explanation' of the blood on the interior of the house door, the Durango, etc., was based at least somewhat on 'fact', and I say 'fact' loosely, meaning facts as were perhaps told TO Rooster by Raven, or someone.... One thing has certainly turned out to be true (at least true in how it was presented HERE) - and that's the laptop.

Rooster posted here back in June that a laptop was missing (I don't have the post handy, but as I recall, it went something along the lines of "dude or dudette took a laptop...."). We've talked a great deal about the supposed missing laptop, and after all this time, I suppose we can now confirm that aspect of Rooster's story, as the LE press release regarding the $5000 reward clearly states:

"There were no obvious signs of a break-in, but a laptop computer was missing from the house."

My point is, I still think within the stories Rooster told here, there ARE perhaps things of substance and fact - and again, "fact" meaning - what Rooster was told about that evening.... Does that mean these things are what Raven actually told LE? Who knows. Those stories we will have to wait and hear down the road - at trial.

 

[terminatrixator]

True, The Rooster did bring up the laptop and I have a feeling Rooster got this information directly from the Raven.

 

[lauriej]

some quotes by rooster from the "raven is innocent!" thread, started by 'rooster'.)

Originally Posted by lauriej
.............maybe it's just me, but i have a hard time seeing a simple house burglar....( what....some computer equipment? ) commiting murder......

MAYBE a stray bullet that happens to hit the target.....but a SINGLE knife plunge to the heart? over a robbery that wasn't even completed ?
How do you know nothing was taken?

Originally Posted by ewwwinteresting
:laugh:

I am not saying Raven is guilty but do you seriously think that a stranger entered into an occupied house and made it upstairs to the bedroom/office to steal something and Janet (a shy quiet nonconfrontational peacemaker girl) caught him and he felt trapped so he murdered her????
If it was a woman...she could have. Try not to be so narrow minded.

06-04-2005, 03:25 AM
Rooster

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Dude or dudette took a lap top. And probably didn't leave it behind to be fingerprinted.

06-04-2005, 11:53 AM
Rooster

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I DO know Janet and Raven had a laptop. I DON'T know if the murderer took it for sure. It is however a good POSSIBILITY. Sorry, I don't have any hard evidence.

#73

06-04-2005, 12:12 PM
Rooster

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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfmom
My understanding the laptop was attached by an umbilical cord to Raven. So it doesn't seem likely that he went anywhere without it. And if it had any evidence of his illegal embezzlement activites on it, I don't think he'd let it out of his sight.
:twocents:

Raven states, on ravenstree, that he had "made some bad business decisions and that he was starting over." So, he had put the embezzling behind him...No need for a laptop at a soccer game. I think the laptop was probably at home.

Also, there was a pawn shop ticket in the found in the Durango. If he had pawned his regular computer, for money.(to buy food and diapers for his son and wife that he loved very much.) Then his laptop might have become the main computer for the family. Hummmm. The possibilities.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

My point is, I still think within the stories Rooster told here, there ARE perhaps things of substance and fact - and again, "fact" meaning - what Rooster was told about that evening.... Does that mean these things are what Raven actually told LE? Who knows. Those stories we will have to wait and hear down the road - at trial.

I agree that it's quite possible (and likely even) that Rooster IS in the know on some level and DID post some things of substance. My point is only that we don't know that for sure so we have to be careful what conclusions we draw from things that s/he said.

I'm still confused about Rooster's knowledge of the laptop. Personally, I believe that Rooster slipped when s/he told us that. (I'm going to try to remember to see how long after that comment Rooster mysteriously stopped saying anything of significance (as if s/he was perhaps warned by someone to stop posting - I just checked and the tid-bit about the laptop on June 4th was the first day that Rooster was posting. S/he stopped posting anything of substance a week later. So I don't think that anything can be inferred by the timing of the posts)). However, I seem to remember that prior to Rooster saying that, we were already speculating about a laptop. Could it be that Rooster's statement about the laptop was based on the speculations that we had already been making at the time and not based on any real knowledge of the events?

 

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

I think that Rooster knows what he/she is talking about and probably from Raven directly. People who worked with LE would know what is not public info.

 

[terminatrixator]

I think Rooster knows only what was told to Rooster by the Rave, and we all know Raven lies to suit his needs. that's not speculation, that's fact. Raven is a :loser:and he can cry me a river:boohoo: or he can:bang:for all I care, eventually he will end up :behindbar then I will :clap:.

 

[lauriej]

I think Rooster knows only what was told to Rooster by the Rave, and we all know Raven lies to suit his needs. that's not speculation, that's fact. Raven is a :loser:and he can cry me a river:boohoo: or he can:bang:for all I care, eventually he will end up :behindbar then I will :clap:.

..yep..rooster's posts ( in the beginning ) had me feeling a little sorry for him/her..."the one man brigade proclaiming raven's innocence"..

..but in the end, it became clear to me, in my opinion, that raven was right by his/her side during posting.......or was rooster really raven all along ?