General discussion thread No. 15

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...tml?in_article_id=482126&in_page_id=1770&ct=5

The article noted above contradicts much of what has been said. What if the conspiracy lies not in making the parents look innocent but in making them look guilty?

Why would the PJ go to the trouble of fabricating a case? It would be so much easier and far less expensive for them to simply let the case grow cold. The McCanns would continue to act as global ambassadors for missing children.

Absent a body, the PJ could never be certain that Maddie wouldn't turn up alive, humiliating them. And why hide the discovery of a body?

Certainly Robert Murat, if guilty, wouldn't have a reason to frame the McCanns. There's even less evidence on him than there is on the Mccanns--the supposed witness sightings would be even less credible in court than the search dogs. Jane Tanner did not even identify Murat as the man she says she saw carrying a child she later identified as Madeleine, immediately that night. A good defense attorney would shred that testimony immediately.

If anything, it sounded more as if the Tapas 9 were very eager to implicate Murat very early on, with members insisting they saw him around the premises although Murat has an alibi and a witness. (His mother, who may or may not make a completely credible witness, but is still a witness that would stack up heavily against someone who wasn't even sure that night she saw Murat.)

Since the actual results of the test have not been fully released yet, any talk of how unreliable or useless they are, as stated by nameless "forensic experts" is just more speculation and spin.
 
Why would the McCann's immediately think it was a kidnapping if they felt they were in such a safe area???? Why not the possibility that she just wandered off?

Well just a guess here but if the windows and doors of the apartment were closed & they had to use a key to get back into their room kidnapping might well be one of the first thing they'd fear.

You have to understand that holiday resorts market themselves as family friendly and family safe environments, places where you can relax and let your guard down, but that the McCann's coming from the UK would have heard or viewed media reports of snatched kids in the UK and feared the worst when Madeleine disappeared.
 
Could anyone explain to me, are all the "apartments" owned by the resort--sort of like a motel? Or are they individually owned and rented out, like a time-share? Is there a maid that comes into your room everyday and changes your sheets? A front desk? I'm just not real clear how "enclosed" an environment it was. Thanks!

From the Mark Warner Ocean Club Resort Web Site

"All our guests stay in private spacious villa-style apartments spread throughout the village. The largest, sleep up to six people. A real home from home, apartments have washing machines, telephones and fully equipped kitchens. Every apartment also has its own sunny balcony or patio. "
 
Excuse my not knowing, but how do you know the McCann's didn't search for their daughter?
I swear, they went to church with the twins and some here think that's awful. The McCann's are damned if they do and damned if they don't with most the posters here.

You will never hear or read me ever judging a person for attending church. Church is for sinners, moreso than saints. If I had my way, I would personally love to see them in church and stay there until this is worked out.

I'm not damning the mccanns, their behavior has damned them. I haven't seen constant news coverage of anyone searching for maddy like we see here when someone is missing. I think maddy has been terribly let down by all the people in that area, including the citizens for not searching every stone, nook and cranny. I hold the parents at the utmost top of my list, there is absolutely no reason why there isn't organized searching going on right now.

Heck, the funds are there. Please know me or my opinion a little more before you come down on me like that. But I'm not upset with you, just know who I am, I love the Lord and I would never make fun of anyone attending church. I fear the Lord my God to even do anything close to that.

I understand you may be frustrated because it seems their getting heat, I hope we all have answers soon. Take care.

ETA: I just re-read my post you quoted and replied to, you were off topic in replying to me. I hadn't even said anything about them attending church. I don't understand why you even took my posts and did that. But lets move on, and enjoy one another outlook on this case, I value yours.
 
Well just a guess here but if the windows and doors of the apartment were closed & they had to use a key to get back into their room kidnapping might well be one of the first thing they'd fear.

You have to understand that holiday resorts market themselves as family friendly and family safe environments, places where you can relax and let your guard down, but that the McCann's coming from the UK would have heard or viewed media reports of snatched kids in the UK and feared the worst when Madeleine disappeared.

So what, are we to believe that the McCanns thought it's only in the UK that children are kidnapped? They're doctors- professionals. Surely they couldn't be that naive.
 
You have to understand that holiday resorts market themselves as family friendly and family safe environments, places where you can relax and let your guard down, but that the McCann's coming from the UK would have heard or viewed media reports of snatched kids in the UK and feared the worst when Madeleine disappeared.

If it was THAT safe they would not have babysitting services AND even if they did market themselves as such, are we to believe that two educated doctors who have traveled before would "buy" into such a thing? I don't think so.
 
So what, are we to believe that the McCanns thought it's only in the UK that children are kidnapped? They're doctors- professionals. Surely they couldn't be that naive.
Ah but obviously they could be, since they and their friends were in the habit of leaving the children alone at night. A very stupid thing to do but not necessarily an indication that they were involved in their daughter's disappearance .
 
Ah but obviously they could be, since they and their friends were in the habit of leaving the children alone at night. A very stupid thing to do but not necessarily an indication that they were involved in their daughter's disappearance .


Wasn't there a report or something that stated on the night Madeleine went missing the McCanns were the only ones without a sitter,baby moniter?

Just wondering if it was like that every night.

I am going to look in the media threads for that report.
 
If it was THAT safe they would not have babysitting services AND even if they did market themselves as such, are we to believe that two educated doctors who have traveled before would "buy" into such a thing? I don't think so.
Yes, they do market themselves as such, just check the brochure on their web site. I'd have to ask why they wouldn't buy into such a thing when shopping for a family holiday? Isn't a family friendly, family safe environment something anyone who researches a family holiday looks for?
 
Yes, they do market themselves as such, just check the brochure on their web site. I'd have to ask why they wouldn't buy into such a thing when shopping for a family holiday? Isn't a family friendly, family safe environment something anyone who researches a family holiday looks for?

I believe you when you said they market themselves as such..hey...ANY business market themselves in a way to sell, no? ;)

My point is: Since the Mc Canns traveled before and we are speaking about two educated doctors, I do not believe for a second they were that naive. They just CHOSE to not hire a babysitter or have a baby monitor because they are irresponsible parents and their needs to party were more important than their kids.

The resort is not to blamed at all for the stupidity of these parents.
 
Wasn't there a report or something that stated on the night Madeleine went missing the McCanns were the only ones without a sitter,baby moniter?

.

You are right, and I believe it was in the Sol report that described the couples. Paynes had a monitor, Oldfields had used sitters all week, O'Brien and Tanner took turns that evening (I think they were at the table together for only a few minutes) being with their kids. Silvia somebody from the hotel approached the McCanns that very evening to strongly suggest a sitter, but the parents declined the service.
 
I believe you when you said they market themselves as such..hey...ANY business market themselves in a way to sell, no? ;)

My point is: Since the Mc Canns traveled before and we are speaking about two educated doctors, I do not believe for a second they were that naive. They just CHOSE to not hire a babysitter or have a baby monitor because they are irresponsible parents and their needs to party were more important than their kids.

The resort is not to blamed at all for the stupidity of these parents.
Absolutely on the marketing point, we'll have to agree to disagree on their naivety.
As I've said before I believe it was stupid of them not to hire a sitter but that does not necessarily make them murderers.
 
Yes, they do market themselves as such, just check the brochure on their web site. I'd have to ask why they wouldn't buy into such a thing when shopping for a family holiday? Isn't a family friendly, family safe environment something anyone who researches a family holiday looks for?

Yes, but the McCanns also said early in the investigation that they thought someone was stalking or watching them, so why would they feel safe?
 
Yes, but the McCanns also said early in the investigation that they thought someone was stalking or watching them, so why would they feel safe?

I believe it was Trish Cameron who said that because at the time "detectives believe Madeleine was taken by someone who may have stalked her family during their holiday on the Algarve."
"The resort offered a creche service but the couple chose to leave the children sleeping at the apartment, taking turns to check on them. Between their checks at 9.30pm and 10pm the apartment was broken into through a window and Madeleine was taken, according to her aunt.

Trish Cameron, Mr McCann's sister, said it appeared that someone had been spying on Madeleine and had targeted her for abduction.

Child deliberately targeted

"The front door was open, the window had been tampered with, the shutters had been jemmied open and Madeleine was missing. Nothing had been touched in the apartment, no valuables taken, no passports. They think someone must have come in the window and gone out the door with her," she said."

<Source>

So they came to believe they were stalked after Madeleine's disappearance not before not before.

As an aside that the first time I've read that the door was actually open, the window & shutters tampered with.
 
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topsto...waiters-gerry-was-perfect-dad-89520-19801178/

Today's article in the Mirror (the ice cream on the beach story), even if only partially true, provides an interesting description of the night's search efforts:

Gerry, he said, was frantically searching a patch of wasteland by the Praia da Luz beach, screaming hysterically: "Madeleine, Madeleine, Madeleine

What else might he have been doing on the beach? If this waiter exists, he may have important information about the course of events that evening. Amongst the hubbub, the whereabouts of the various arguidos must have been hard to track.

Also in this article, some comments that the Tapas group were not involved in the evening's searches:

Last night police sources said they were "suspicious" because cardiologist Gerry was left to search the resort alone for most of the time, while his friends stayed shut away in their apartments.

"That is what made us suspicious. Why didn't they all spend the night and day searching instead of being hidden away in their rooms?" the source asked.

"Kate stayed in the apartment with the twins and a few others, watching from the balcony. It just didn't make sense to me."
 
Yes, it's very hard to find that, and even so the official story about the doors being locked or unlocked has been contradicted and left unanswered by the McCanns.

There are several mentions in the Portugese press articles that the PJ saw no signs of tampering from outside the windows. In other words, they were open, but not necessarily forced open from outside.
 
This article is also of some interest to our discussion I believe.

<Source>

"Based on reports and statements from other parties, it is possible to say with some accuracy what seems to have happened in those fateful hours before Madeleine went missing.

Doctors Gerry and Kate McCann were nearing the end of their Mark Warner holiday in Praia da Luz.

As had become their custom, they had put their three children to bed in their flat at 7pm before going to a nearby tapas bar half an hour later.

They did not use a listening device to monitor their twins Sean and Amelie, two, and Madeleine, three.

But as they were sitting no more than 70 yards from the rear door of their ground-floor flat, they felt confident that their established childcare arrangements were sufficient.

With them at dinner were the seven friends from England who had gone on holiday with them. Three of them are also doctors and one is a top medical research fellow.

Each couple were responsible for checking their own children, but other members of the group occasionally took turns to check all the children were sleeping soundly.

It is unclear what happened between 7.30pm and and 9pm, but Mr McCann has said that he went on a checking trip at 9.05pm - and noticed a door which he thought had been left shut in the flat was ajar.

He thought nothing of it, however, as his children were fast asleep.

Another member of the group, Jane Tanner, took a turn around ten minutes later. She has told police that as she returned to the bar she saw a dark-haired man aged around 35 carrying a child. Again, she thought nothing of it.

Then, at 9.45pm, Dr Matthew Oldfield went on a checking trip.

It has been speculated some of the checks did not involve the group actually seeing the sleeping children, but that they simply listened from outside.

There have been claims that Dr Oldfield either simply listened at the McCann children's bedroom door or that he looked into the room and believed he saw Madeleine there.

According to the latter claim, he is also said to have reported that light was coming in as if the shutters had been opened.

Finally, at 10pm Mrs McCann went to check - and within seconds had emerged screaming that her daughter had gone.

She is understood to have been certain that Madeleine had been taken, rather than that she had wandered off, or hidden, because her favourite soft toy, Cuddle Cat, which had been with her in bed, had been placed on a high ledge.

That is as close to the McCann group's statements to the police as it is possible to get.

And it is clear that by this account there are a number of windows of opportunity in which Madeleine could have been whisked away - either by an abductor, or, according to the theory Portuguese police are seemingly exploring, by her own family after a terrible accident.

It has already been suggested that other statements have clashed with the accounts of the McCanns and their friends.

One tapas bar worker suggested that only one man in the group left their table all evening. And a teacher who went to chat with the McCanns that night claimed that no one left the table between 9.30 and 10pm.

A further detail from the evening is that the McCanns' friend Dr Russell O'Brien, 36, is understood to have left the table at some time after 9pm, to attend to his own ill daughter."
 
This article is also of some interest to our discussion I believe.

<Source>

A further detail from the evening is that the McCanns' friend Dr Russell O'Brien, 36, is understood to have left the table at some time after 9pm, to attend to his own ill daughter."

And what about this O'Brien guy - he left his SICK DAUGHTER home alone, vomiting, while he went to dinner....... wonder how old his daughter is.
 
Poco, Colomom told me O' Brien's daughter is the same age as Madeleine.

Something fishy about him and that night....
 
Mrs. McCann has suggested that the corpse smell on her holiday clothing might have come from dealing with her patients in her GP practice. Some of us wondered why she would take her corpsey work clothes on vacation with her. Or why she might wear such casual clothing when attending the dead in Rothley. The outfit she wore to church yesterday certainly looked like Praia da Luz-wear with a cardigan on top. Perhaps she does dress like that all the time. Or so we may be meant to believe...(plays paranoia music in the background)
 
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