General Gun Violence/Gun Control #2

[Knitty]

Hi All,

Tricia has asked us to open up a discussion about gun violence, as clearly, there is a problem with gun violence, especially in the United States. In many of the cases that come to Websleuths, gun violence is the cause, and we don't/can't allow general gun violence/control discussion because the thread becomes about that rather than about the victims.

This thread is not for discussion of particular cases (that would derail THIS thread) but for general gun violence and gun control discussion, including purchasing and permitting. Respectfully stated opinions are fine, and if you post facts or statistics, please post your sources.

All other Websleuths rules apply. Please be kind to your fellow Websleuths members.

I'll start.

These are the gun control laws passed in 2022 | CNN

Several high-profile mass shootings and a sustained rise in gun violence across the United States in 2022 have spurred law enforcement officials and lawmakers to push for more gun control measures.

www.cnn.com

Thread #1

 

[MadMcGoo]

Continue the discussion here.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I think part of my issue is still being missed. When we talk about banning "assault" weapons, what is meant? I get the feeling that what is really being insinuated is "semi-automatic." Is that what you would want to see in a ban?
To buy a gun from a dealer you need to be 18 or 21, have an id, pass a background check. You just need money to buy a car. Sure, you can buy a gun no questions asked in a private sale or on the street. But that is the same anywhere.

In Canada the government has deemed a number of firearms as ‘assault-style’, the list is here. I agree with the ban.

I said the purchasing licensing & operating etc. of a vehicle and firearm. I didn’t compare the act of simply purchasing a vehicle and firearm.

 

[RANCH]

In Canada the government has deemed a number of firearms as ‘assault-style’, the list is here. I agree with the ban.

I said the purchasing licensing & operating etc. of a vehicle and firearm. I didn’t compare the act of simply purchasing a vehicle and firearm.

Pretty meager list of "assault type firearms" that are prohibited in Canada. The only AK style listed is the Czech Vz58 and that really only looks like an AK. It's operating system is totally different.
JMO.

While externally the vz. 58 resembles the Soviet AK-47, it is a different design based on a short-stroke gas piston. It shares no parts with Kalashnikov rifles, including the magazine.

vz. 58 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Pretty meager list of "assault type firearms" that are prohibited in Canada. The only AK style listed is the Czech Vz58 and that really only looks like an AK. It's operating system is totally different.
JMO.

vz. 58 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There’s controversy over which firearms have been banned.

 

[Laughing]

What legislation can you draft to stop this:

TN - Jillian Ludwig killed by stray bullet in drive-by shooting, Nov 13 2023

https://people.com/jillian-ludwig-college-student-killed-stray-bullet-parents-pay-tribute-8401177 Jillian Ludwig, 18, a student at Belmont University, was struck by a bullet fired from across the street from the park where she was walking on the track last Tuesday, the Nashville Metro Police...

www.websleuths.com

Previous victims of the man arrested for killing a Belmont student speak out

Another victim of the man accused of shooting and killing a freshman Belmont University student is speaking out about her experience.

www.newschannel5.com

In 2021, Shaquille Taylor was charged with three counts of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, but the case was dismissed by a judge because Taylor was deemed incompetent. Taylor spent time in jail being interviewed by doctors but they all agreed "further training (or medical care) would not change" his competency. So despite admitting to detectives that he shot into a car with children inside, he was released back to the street.

Belmont shooting suspect Shaquille Taylor’s criminal history dates back to 2010

WMSV4 Investigates dug through his criminal background and found several charges over the years.

www.wsmv.com

Preferably in a way that leaves the civil rights of law-abiding citizens intact, of course.

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[DFWNF]

I won't speak to particular cases as we were instructed not to. My question is whether the percentages of legal sales of guns vs not legal sales are known? I am for bans and I also believe safety measures are required ie in schools etc.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

What legislation can you draft to stop this:

TN - Jillian Ludwig killed by stray bullet in drive-by shooting, Nov 13 2023

https://people.com/jillian-ludwig-college-student-killed-stray-bullet-parents-pay-tribute-8401177 Jillian Ludwig, 18, a student at Belmont University, was struck by a bullet fired from across the street from the park where she was walking on the track last Tuesday, the Nashville Metro Police...

www.websleuths.com

Previous victims of the man arrested for killing a Belmont student speak out

Another victim of the man accused of shooting and killing a freshman Belmont University student is speaking out about her experience.

www.newschannel5.com

In 2021, Shaquille Taylor was charged with three counts of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, but the case was dismissed by a judge because Taylor was deemed incompetent. Taylor spent time in jail being interviewed by doctors but they all agreed "further training (or medical care) would not change" his competency. So despite admitting to detectives that he shot into a car with children inside, he was released back to the street.

Belmont shooting suspect Shaquille Taylor’s criminal history dates back to 2010

WMSV4 Investigates dug through his criminal background and found several charges over the years.

www.wsmv.com

Preferably in a way that leaves the civil rights of law-abiding citizens intact, of course.

jmho ymmv lrr

Respectfully, ‘law-abiding citizens’ are part of the issue and are resisting reasonable changes in legislation that would make the US safer because of your ‘rights’. (One example below.)

I won't speak to particular cases as we were instructed not to. My question is whether the percentages of legal sales of guns vs not legal sales are known? I am for bans and I also believe safety measures are required ie in schools etc.

“CINCINNATI (WKRC) - A recent story from Local 12 has prompted a Cincinnati city councilmember to investigate whether or not to introduce legislation that would require gun owners to lock up their guns if left unattended in their cars.

Cincinnati police told a council committee on Tuesday that 70% of stolen guns in the city come from unattended cars. Local 12 asked the chairman of the committee, Scotty Johnson (D), about it.

Cincinnati city council last February passed an ordinance that requires people to lock up their guns in their homes if children are present, but the city stopped short and didn't include cars in the ordinance.”

Cincinnati councilmember considers new legislation for securing guns in unattended vehicle

local12.com

The suggestion for changes is getting pushback from a firearms right group, citing the Second Amendment.

So despite officials identifying a firearms issue that causing innocent deaths, injuries and other crimes, and finding a reasonable solution to the issue, the ‘it’s our right’ is the response from a firearm association who have challenged proposed legislation previously.

 

[DFWNF]

Respectfully, ‘law-abiding citizens’ are part of the issue and are resisting reasonable changes in legislation that would make the US safer because of your ‘rights’. (One example below.)


“CINCINNATI (WKRC) - A recent story from Local 12 has prompted a Cincinnati city councilmember to investigate whether or not to introduce legislation that would require gun owners to lock up their guns if left unattended in their cars.

Cincinnati police told a council committee on Tuesday that 70% of stolen guns in the city come from unattended cars. Local 12 asked the chairman of the committee, Scotty Johnson (D), about it.

Cincinnati city council last February passed an ordinance that requires people to lock up their guns in their homes if children are present, but the city stopped short and didn't include cars in the ordinance.”

Cincinnati councilmember considers new legislation for securing guns in unattended vehicle

local12.com

The suggestion for changes is getting pushback from a firearms right group, citing the Second Amendment.

So despite officials identifying a firearms issue that causing innocent deaths, injuries and other crimes, and finding a reasonable solution to the issue, the ‘it’s our right’ is the response from a firearm association who have challenged proposed legislation previously.

It's so very tragic. And your posts are very thought provoking and wise Lexiintoronto. Thank you. Jmo.

 

[Cota332]

Cincinnati police told a council committee on Tuesday that 70% of stolen guns in the city come from unattended cars. Local 12 asked the chairman of the committee, Scotty Johnson (D), about it.

It is already widely accepted that gun-owners would be held liable for any issues that result from leaving a firearm unsecured.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

It is already widely accepted that gun-owners would be held liable for any issues that result from leaving a firearm unsecured.

The example I gave was in Cincinnati and the issue is with firearms left in ‘unattended’ vehicles, they were not necessarily ‘unsecured’ firearms. They wouldn’t be considering new legislation if there were laws already in place that addressed that specific issue.

 

[Cota332]

The example I gave was in Cincinnati and the issue is with firearms left in ‘unattended’ vehicles, they were not necessarily ‘unsecured’ firearms. They wouldn’t be considering new legislation if there were laws already in place that addressed that specific issue.

If you read the article, they are advocating for the requirement of firearm safes in vehicles, should the vehicle be left unattended. Ergo, the entire measure was regarding unsecured firearms.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

If you read the article, they are advocating for the requirement of firearm safes in vehicles, should the vehicle be left unattended. Ergo, the entire measure was regarding unsecured firearms.

I read it, that’s why I wrote ‘not necessarily ‘unsecured’ firearms’. Even with them being secured there’s an issue.

In general, Cincinnati leaders have asked gun owners not to store them in cars.

“As for stolen weapons, Menkhaus said suspects understand guns are kept in cars.

“Put it in the house,” he said. “Don't leave it in the car. Even though you think it's in a lock box or in a locked glove compartment, they're so easy to break open.””

'Don't leave it in the car': City leaders warn gun owners about thefts from cars

Mayor Aftab Pureval said 40% of the illegal weapons on Cincinnati streets have been stolen from cars.

www.wcpo.com

The same article says that across the US most gun thefts are from vehicles.

 

[Cota332]

Secured firearms are a much different issue; a decent/dedicated firearm vehicle safe is much less likely to be pried into than a glove box.

I agree with the point that firearm owners ought to be much less careless when it comes to firearm storage/safety/handling, but not to the point that it need be legislated.

 

[DFWNF]

If you read the article, they are advocating for the requirement of firearm safes in vehicles, should the vehicle be left unattended. Ergo, the entire measure was regarding unsecured firearms.

Bbm, a lot of that going around imo.

 

[Lilibet]

(Gift articles for non-subscribers) The latest from the Washington Post series on the AR15. The first article explains the second, which is quite graphic, showing the scenes of shootings after the victims have been removed. Normally, I neither post nor read graphic material, but made an exception for the reason bolded in the excerpt from the first article. I recommend the whole series, for its informative value, none of which is graphic like this one.
JMO

https://wapo.st/3MRaGzo

In “Terror on repeat,” the latest story in our series examining the role of the AR-15 in American life, The Washington Post is taking the unusual step of publishing photographs and videos taken during the immediate aftermaths of some of the nation’s deadliest mass shootings.

Like other news organizations, we cover the effects of these tragedies when they occur. But because journalists generally do not have access to crime scenes and news organizations rarely if ever publish graphic content, most Americans have no way to understand the full scope of an AR-15’s destructive power or the extent of the trauma inflicted on victims, survivors and first responders when a shooter uses this weapon on people.

Drawing on the details of 11 mass killings from the past 11 years, this story is the result of a months-long effort to examine these episodes as a cumulative and relatively recent phenomenon that has upended communities across the country.

The story is largely narrated by those who experienced the shootings firsthand. It reveals the commonalities shared by each tragedy — the sudden transition from normal life to terror, then the onset of chaos, destruction and death, and, finally, the gruesome aftermath of investigation and cleanup.

WARNING: GRAPHIC (BLOOD AND WORDS)…”Terror on Repeat”

https://wapo.st/3QLBMcd

 

[DFWNF]

(Gift articles for non-subscribers) The latest from the Washington Post series on the AR15. The first article explains the second, which is quite graphic, showing the scenes of shootings after the victims have been removed. Normally, I neither post nor read graphic material, but made an exception for the reason bolded in the excerpt from the first article. I recommend the whole series, for its informative value, none of which is graphic like this one.
JMO

https://wapo.st/3MRaGzo

In “Terror on repeat,” the latest story in our series examining the role of the AR-15 in American life, The Washington Post is taking the unusual step of publishing photographs and videos taken during the immediate aftermaths of some of the nation’s deadliest mass shootings.

Like other news organizations, we cover the effects of these tragedies when they occur. But because journalists generally do not have access to crime scenes and news organizations rarely if ever publish graphic content, most Americans have no way to understand the full scope of an AR-15’s destructive power or the extent of the trauma inflicted on victims, survivors and first responders when a shooter uses this weapon on people.

Drawing on the details of 11 mass killings from the past 11 years, this story is the result of a months-long effort to examine these episodes as a cumulative and relatively recent phenomenon that has upended communities across the country.

The story is largely narrated by those who experienced the shootings firsthand. It reveals the commonalities shared by each tragedy — the sudden transition from normal life to terror, then the onset of chaos, destruction and death, and, finally, the gruesome aftermath of investigation and cleanup.

WARNING: GRAPHIC (BLOOD AND WORDS)…”Terror on Repeat”

https://wapo.st/3QLBMcd

I will not view that. And respectfully referring to your bolding, I will never believe that. Jmo.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

(Gift articles for non-subscribers) The latest from the Washington Post series on the AR15. The first article explains the second, which is quite graphic, showing the scenes of shootings after the victims have been removed. Normally, I neither post nor read graphic material, but made an exception for the reason bolded in the excerpt from the first article. I recommend the whole series, for its informative value, none of which is graphic like this one.
JMO

https://wapo.st/3MRaGzo

In “Terror on repeat,” the latest story in our series examining the role of the AR-15 in American life, The Washington Post is taking the unusual step of publishing photographs and videos taken during the immediate aftermaths of some of the nation’s deadliest mass shootings.

Like other news organizations, we cover the effects of these tragedies when they occur. But because journalists generally do not have access to crime scenes and news organizations rarely if ever publish graphic content, most Americans have no way to understand the full scope of an AR-15’s destructive power or the extent of the trauma inflicted on victims, survivors and first responders when a shooter uses this weapon on people.

Drawing on the details of 11 mass killings from the past 11 years, this story is the result of a months-long effort to examine these episodes as a cumulative and relatively recent phenomenon that has upended communities across the country.

The story is largely narrated by those who experienced the shootings firsthand. It reveals the commonalities shared by each tragedy — the sudden transition from normal life to terror, then the onset of chaos, destruction and death, and, finally, the gruesome aftermath of investigation and cleanup.

WARNING: GRAPHIC (BLOOD AND WORDS)…”Terror on Repeat”

https://wapo.st/3QLBMcd

I think everyone defending the use and ownership of AR-15s and similar weapons should look at those photos and article.

I agree with them posting it, but my guess is that they’re preaching to the choir. The people going to Starbucks with their AR-15s and posing for Christmas cards with those firearms and bragging about owning them because it’s ‘their right’ are oblivious to the human destruction they cause, imo.

One person said it may take one photo to spark a change. My sinking feeling is that it’s going to take a photo of murdered children to do that. Maybe a leaked video.

Thank you for posting this.

 

[Cota332]

Bbm, a lot of that going around imo.

The point was that individual firearm owners are already being held liable if found that they did not take necessary measures to properly secure a firearm that ended up being used in an incident.

 

[Cota332]

I think everyone defending the use and ownership of AR-15s and similar weapons should look at those photos and article.

I think it odd that the article chooses to fixate on the AR platform, while an AR is less likely to be used in a mass murder event.