George Zimmerman's Injuries #1

[Donjeta]

My example doesn't have to make sense, it's an example that was thought up in less than a minute. Any good defense lawyer will see that this case will ultimately be decided by showing that it's possible (doesn't even have to be likely) that Martin approached Zimmerman. The proof is on the prosecution, not the defense. The defense doesn't have to have a story that could make sense, they just have to put some doubt that the ONLY way it could happen is if Zimmerman approached Martin. The testimony from the girlfriend itself has a TON of room for doubt in it without the defense even touching it.

I think the standard is reasonable doubt so the jurors would have some room to decide if the alternative explanations offered by the defense are nonsensical.

 

[wishuwerehere]

It is going to come down to a judge and/or jury deciding if Zimmerman’s version of events are believable, and if Zimmerman himself is credible. As it stands now, for me, neither Zimmerman or his account of events are believable. Lucky for him I am not the judge, nor will I be on the jury.

May justice prevail.

jmo

 

[AJ Noiter]

If he brings up self defense that is an affirmative defense. If you use an affirmative defense you will be admitting you broke the law but that you were justified in doing so. Therefore, Zimmerman would have to admit that the death was unlawful. At least that's how I understand this article:

http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2012/04/what-is-an-affirmative-defense.html

ETA: I think I am straying off the subject of this thread... I apologize for that. Mods, feel free to move whatever you need to the right thread.

In some cases or jurisdictions, however, the defense must only be asserted, and the prosecution has the burden to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defense is not applicable. -Wikipedia

That's why I said they may still have to prove that it was unlawful based on Florida laws, sorry for not quoting/citing it before. Ms. Corey does state in your article that she would be fighting an affirmative defense and without looking up Florida law I'd assume, based on her usage of the word "fighting," that she would have to prove it.

 

[highflyer]

It is going to come down to a judge and/or jury deciding if Zimmerman’s version of events are believable, and if Zimmerman himself is credible. As it stands now, for me, neither Zimmerman or his account of events are believable. Lucky for him I am not the judge, nor will I be on the jury.

May justice prevail.

jmo

I agree Zimmerman and his account of things are not credible. I've come up with Zimmerman possibilities that are much more plausible than what was extended and what has been said that happened is too ludicrous to really discuss.

 

[highflyer]

I agree, her words will be used by the defense to show TM started the confrontation.IMO Mr.Crump knows this and like the picture of a much younger and smaller TM was first shown to the media to fire up the public.JMO

Much like TALL O'Mara and little zimmerman.

 

[AJ Noiter]

I think the standard is reasonable doubt so the jurors would have some room to decide if the alternative explanations offered by the defense are nonsensical.

The defense doesn't need an alternate explanation, they simply need to place doubt in the prosecution's story that the only way this outcome could have happened is if Zimmerman confronted Martin. That on it's face is a bit silly to think of alone, in my opinion. If you can place doubt that the only way it could have happened is that Zimmerman confronted Martin, then you've introduced the idea that it's possible that Zimmerman acted in self defense.

 

[BiancaS]

There is no history of GZ apprehending a suspicious person that he called in on, ever.

BEM: TM was 6'3", GZ is 5'8" - TM would have to get on his knees practically to give TM a head butt.

JMO

Not that it matters, but the police report has TM as 6'0" and GZ as 5'9". GZ's Myspace says he is 5'10".

 

[wishuwerehere]

I do not believe a judge or a jury is going to buy into the notion that Trayvon approached Zimmerman. Zimmerman was the one following. It would make sense to believe that Zimmerman caught up to his subject. It would then not be a leap to believe that Zimmerman tried to exert authority over Trayvon. Trayvon "stood his ground". And Zimmerman killed him for it.

jmo

 

[BiancaS]

Much like TALL O'Mara and little zimmerman.

In his great big suit.

And what everyone seems to be forgetting, we are going to see the actual evidence that caused them to charge GZ with 2nd degree murder. GZ's official booboo pictures from that night (hopefully), the testimony or reports from the paramedics. The trajectory is (I think) going to be especially meaningful.

All we have heard so far is differing descriptions of the injuries, some from people that never saw them, and a picture that is questionable (IMO). The truth is out there, O'Mara doesn't want it coming out too soon, he doesn't want the discovery out because he wants to get the donations up (IMO). I think there is a reason for that. MOO.

 

[vlpate]

I do not believe a judge or a jury is going to buy into the notion that Trayvon approached Zimmerman. Zimmerman was the one following. It would make sense to believe that Zimmerman caught up to his subject. It would then not be a leap to believe that Zimmerman tried to exert authority over Trayvon. Trayvon "stood his ground". And Zimmerman killed him for it.

jmo

TM took off running two minutes into the call and Zimmerman lost sight of him. TM allegedly told his g/f that he lost the stranger. So, by the above description, how did GZ manage to run, catch up with TM and then end up back in almost the same exact spot where he last saw him in less than a minute?

 

[vlpate]

Not that it matters, but the police report has TM as 6'0" and GZ as 5'9". GZ's Myspace says he is 5'10".

His parents say he is 6'3" and I have read 5'8" on other documents, but I'll concede to 5'9". His height, like his "about me" was probably just guy ego talking.

 

[BiancaS]

The police video of GZ going into the jail was AFTER he was cleaned up by EMT.

With no blood on his clothing, his shirt tucked in neatly, no sign of distress or pain evidenced in his cool, calm manner of walking.

Cleaned up is correct, the injuries were reportedly so minor that they were treated in the back of the police car.

 

[wishuwerehere]

TM took off running two minutes into the call and Zimmerman lost sight of him. TM allegedly told his g/f that he lost the stranger. So, by the above description, how did GZ manage to run, catch up with TM and then end up back in almost the same exact spot where he last saw him in less than a minute?

From my understanding Travyon was walking fast, not running. Zimmerman was the one running (acutally you can hear it on the 911 tape). I do not find Zimmerman's account of events credible. I am not going to rely on anything Zimmerman has stated except to believe that Zimmerman was in CYA mode when giving his version of events. I believe CYA mode is something that Zimmerman is used to.

jmo

 

[Donjeta]

The defense doesn't need an alternate explanation, they simply need to place doubt in the prosecution's story that the only way this outcome could have happened is if Zimmerman confronted Martin. That on it's face is a bit silly to think of alone, in my opinion. If you can place doubt that the only way it could have happened is that Zimmerman confronted Martin, then you've introduced the idea that it's possible that Zimmerman acted in self defense.

If he wants to use the SYG defense he would have to have some kind of story imo.

The problem is imo that if GZ didn't follow and confront TM, TM had no plausible motive to beat him up.

 

[AJ Noiter]

From my understanding Travyon was walking fast, not running. Zimmerman was the one running (acutally you can hear it on the 911 tape). I do not find Zimmerman's account of events credible. I am not going to rely on anything Zimmerman has stated except to believe that Zimmerman was in CYA mode when giving his version of events. I believe CYA mode is something that Zimmerman is used to.

jmo

Out of curiosity, do you have any quotes to share for that?

 

[wishuwerehere]

Out of curiosity, do you have any quotes to share for that?

No quotes. I heard it through MSM as part of the girlfriend’s account.

I do believe Trayvon’s girlfriend is going to be a key witness in this case.

jmo

 

[AJ Noiter]

If he wants to use the SYG defense he would have to have some kind of story imo.

The problem is imo that if GZ didn't follow and confront TM, TM had no plausible motive to beat him up.

I didn't say he wouldn't have a story. I'm sure Zimmerman's words in the police reports, etc, will be used as that story. I simply stated that ALL the defense has to do is cast doubt on the idea that the only way it could have happened with this outcome is if Zimmerman confronted Martin. That's not a very big jump to make at all.

As for Martin's possible motives to attack Zimmerman, no matter what is said it would be speculation. Just like no matter what is said about the idea of Zimmerman confronting Martin, it's speculation. We don't have the facts. The only way to get the absolute fact of this specifically is if we could conclude that the only person who knows exactly what happened is telling the truth, otherwise it's conjecture no matter who tells the story.

 

[Donjeta]

"He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man," Martin's friend said. "I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run, but he said he was not going to run."

Eventually, he would run, said the girl, thinking that he'd managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-ma...-crucial-phone/story?id=15959017#.T6WkkcVIt84

 

[stilettos]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-ma...-crucial-phone/story?id=15959017#.T6WkkcVIt84

So now we have who was cornering who...there is the aggressor. Ding, ding.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

She was going to testify before the Grand Jury. I believe it may be admissible because she was talking to the victim who is now dead. jmo

I wonder what went through George's mind when he heard that Trayvon was on the phone and someone else heard that confrontation?

It would be an aw s### moment to me. Then I'd be lying through my teeth to save my butt.