Graphic Photos/ Day 6 The Garotte, The Cord, and Paint brush/12 Days of JonBenet

[andreww]

The police tried to obtain copies of the R's credit card receipts and statements but the R's lawyers blocked this. I wonder why? What did they have to hide?

If you or I were grieving parents in that situation wouldn't we want to help the police in any way we could, to find the person who did this terrible thing?

As for getting rid of excess cord and tape etc., it would probably have been put into PR's bag. Or maybe put into one of JR's golf bags (pictured next to the cellar room door).

He specifically asked Pam Paugh to bring one particular set of golf clubs. Why? Surely he was not intending to play golf in the days after his daughter was murdered?

Pam was not permitted (officially) to go down to the basement but I wouldn'tmind betting that the police officer who was with her went down there and got the clubs for her.

Just surmising (as usual).

Cops didn't allow Pam to take the clubs, and yes, both bags were searched.

 

[spooky24]

The autopsy report clearly defines that the toggle cord was placed around the child after the contact that broke her skull in half. She was already dead but the circulation process does not stop upon the exact chronological point of death. In the same vein as papillary responses can continue for up to 8 hours after death. The oculomotor cranial nerve is part of the cerebellum at the back of the spinal cord and was not damaged by the blow. The blow (traumatic brain injury] or TBI resulted in a diffuse axonal injury as bleeding into the cranial edema in the form of hematoma had not had sufficient time to bleed after/ or at the point of death.
The cranial injury was so severe that the brain itself was relocated along the mid line for an estimated 30 degrees along the scalp. Also, and much more important, the sound of the actual contact was extremely loud.The noise was demonstrated to the grand jury by a golf club, in a full swing, contacting a typical bathroom tile wall. It would have been heard in every single room of the house.

When the jury members visited the house the sound was recreated again. No one actually knows just what the jury members heard or wrote down however some could hear it outside the house as well.

 

[kanzz]

The autopsy report clearly defines that the toggle cord was placed around the child after the contact that broke her skull in half. She was already dead but the circulation process does not stop upon the exact chronological point of death. In the same vein as papillary responses can continue for up to 8 hours after death. The oculomotor cranial nerve is part of the cerebellum at the back of the spinal cord and was not damaged by the blow. The blow (traumatic brain injury] or TBI resulted in a diffuse axonal injury as bleeding into the cranial edema in the form of hematoma had not had sufficient time to bleed after/ or at the point of death.
The cranial injury was so severe that the brain itself was relocated along the mid line for an estimated 30 degrees along the scalp. Also, and much more important, the sound of the actual contact was extremely loud.The noise was demonstrated to the grand jury by a golf club, in a full swing, contacting a typical bathroom tile wall. It would have been heard in every single room of the house.

When the jury members visited the house the sound was recreated again. No one actually knows just what the jury members heard or wrote down however some could hear it outside the house as well.

Could you please provide some resources or links for your information? (did you c/p it from somewhere?)

I question these statements:

• "She was already dead but the circulation process does not stop upon the exact chronological point of death."
• "...papillary responses can continue for up to 8 hours after death."
  (and how does "papillary response" apply to this case?)
• "oculomotor cranial nerve is part of the cerebellum at the back of the spinal cord".
• "The blow (traumatic brain injury] or TBI resulted in a diffuse axonal injury"
• "bleeding into the cranial edema in the form of hematoma had not had sufficient time to bleed"
• "the brain itself was relocated along the mid line for an estimated 30 degrees along the scalp"
• "The noise was demonstrated to the grand jury by a golf club, in a full swing, contacting a typical bathroom tile wall. It would have been heard in every single room of the house."
  "When the jury members visited the house the sound was recreated again. No one actually knows just what the jury members heard or wrote down however some could hear it outside the house as well."
  This is a non-comparison. A golf club on a bathroom tile would not replicate the sound of an instrument against a human head densely filled with brain tissue and covered with hair. I'd like to know where you got this info.

TIA for any further info you might be able to provide.

 

[Miz Adventure]

The autopsy report clearly defines that the toggle cord was placed around the child after the contact that broke her skull in half. She was already dead but the circulation process does not stop upon the exact chronological point of death. In the same vein as papillary responses can continue for up to 8 hours after death. The oculomotor cranial nerve is part of the cerebellum at the back of the spinal cord and was not damaged by the blow. The blow (traumatic brain injury] or TBI resulted in a diffuse axonal injury as bleeding into the cranial edema in the form of hematoma had not had sufficient time to bleed after/ or at the point of death.
The cranial injury was so severe that the brain itself was relocated along the mid line for an estimated 30 degrees along the scalp. Also, and much more important, the sound of the actual contact was extremely loud.The noise was demonstrated to the grand jury by a golf club, in a full swing, contacting a typical bathroom tile wall. It would have been heard in every single room of the house.

When the jury members visited the house the sound was recreated again. No one actually knows just what the jury members heard or wrote down however some could hear it outside the house as well.

I have to say that some of the above is the first I've heard of it.

I'm posting a link to the autopsy report - all 9 pages of it. I found the report easier to look at on this website than the PDF version.

This is what Dr. Meyer observed. No opinions - just observations. His report stands as it is and nothing can be added to it.

If anyone thinks they know anything that goes beyond the four corners of this report then it is hearsay, opinion, or their own interpretation of the facts.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/coroner-jonbenet-ramsey-autopsy

 

[spooky24]

This is from the 40,000 page presentation that detectives presented to the grand jury. I told you that. Grand Jury's are only concerned with the substance of the prosecutions case. This is still an open criminal homicide investigation-I know that means nothing to any of you here but it means a lot to me. A great deal of this is in the appendix of former Detective Thomas book. How could you people not know some of this?

Grand Jury presentations are not subject to the rules of evidence.
Again.
Grand Jury presentations are not subject to the rules of evidence.

The tour of the house is widely known.

If I could trust you to do the right thing I would release more of this. If the case is ever closed all of this will come out. To be sleuths you sure don't know anything about case procedures-how law enforcement works- and, especially the rights of the accused-which you care absolute nothing about. If an arrest is made in this case you will have ruined any chance of ever convicting anyone. That is why it stays locked up as long as it is an open case because ill responsible people can't wait to 'post it'

Parts of of this are also at Archive.org The Bolder County District attorney Archives and the Police Department.

2 weeks ago I told you all where to find this and not a single one of you even tried to find it??? Having to do real work frightens you.

 

[Miz Adventure]

Two weeks ago?

Perhaps I need new glasses, or I'm looking in the wrong place but I could not see anything about JonBenet on this list.

https://vault.fbi.gov/reading-room-index

 

[kanzz]

This is from the 40,000 page presentation that detectives presented to the grand jury. I told you that. Grand Jury's are only concerned with the substance of the prosecutions case. This is still an open criminal homicide investigation-I know that means nothing to any of you here but it means a lot to me. A great deal of this is in the appendix of former Detective Thomas book. How could you people not know some of this?

Grand Jury presentations are not subject to the rules of evidence.
Again.
Grand Jury presentations are not subject to the rules of evidence.

The tour of the house is widely known.

If I could trust you to do the right thing I would release more of this. If the case is ever closed all of this will come out. To be sleuths you sure don't know anything about case procedures-how law enforcement works- and, especially the rights of the accused-which you care absolute nothing about. If an arrest is made in this case you will have ruined any chance of ever convicting anyone. That is why it stays locked up as long as it is an open case because ill responsible people can't wait to 'post it'

Parts of of this are also at Archive.org The Bolder County District attorney Archives and the Police Department.

2 weeks ago I told you all where to find this and not a single one of you even tried to find it??? Having to do real work frightens you.

BBM
Frightens? Oh no, I don't think anyone here is frightened in the least.

Detectives presented 40K pgs to the GJ? Oh, OK.

Could you pls provide links to what is available?

In the grand jury presentation it was not a part of the evidence. Because it's highly speculative and impossible to ever know one way or the other because of an unsecured crime scene. The physical part of the murder was highlighted. It was simply immaterial because the abduction/murder was the disposition of the indictment. It could have been dealt with in time.

"But I wish they had explained their theory about sexual abuse vs staging" In the FBI vault you can read about this theory till the cows come home. Just search for it.

BBM

I assume this is the post to which you referred. When I read this, I had no way of knowing what you meant by "it". Where on the FBI vault did you find this theory? Could you pls provide a link?

Thank you.

 

[AndHence]

I see no reason why an intruder would apply a garrote AFTER the head blow. If they were concerned about JonBenet returning to consciousness and being able to describe the perpetrator, they'd have just struck her head until death was certain. Kolar's vague theory that the garrote was not part of the staging but had been used by Burke in some sort of sex game on prior occasions is interesting, but murkier territory. We have to establish WHY the garrote was used. Sex game? Torture? Staging? Were the parents unaware of the head injury when they found her?

 

[BBB167893]

This is from the 40,000 page presentation that detectives presented to the grand jury. I told you that. Grand Jury's are only concerned with the substance of the prosecutions case. This is still an open criminal homicide investigation-I know that means nothing to any of you here but it means a lot to me. A great deal of this is in the appendix of former Detective Thomas book. How could you people not know some of this?

Grand Jury presentations are not subject to the rules of evidence.
Again.
Grand Jury presentations are not subject to the rules of evidence.

The tour of the house is widely known.

If I could trust you to do the right thing I would release more of this. If the case is ever closed all of this will come out. To be sleuths you sure don't know anything about case procedures-how law enforcement works- and, especially the rights of the accused-which you care absolute nothing about. If an arrest is made in this case you will have ruined any chance of ever convicting anyone. That is why it stays locked up as long as it is an open case because ill responsible people can't wait to 'post it'

Parts of of this are also at Archive.org The Bolder County District attorney Archives and the Police Department.

2 weeks ago I told you all where to find this and not a single one of you even tried to find it??? Having to do real work frightens you.

spooky24, you had me in your corner all the way. Don't talk yourself out of it.

 

[kanzz]

spooky24, you had me in your corner all the way. Don't talk yourself out of it.

spooky24's post had me baffled, SD. Maybe you saw my reply.

So did this one:

The autopsy report clearly defines that the toggle cord was placed around the child after the contact that broke her skull in half. She was already dead but the circulation process does not stop upon the exact chronological point of death. In the same vein as papillary responses can continue for up to 8 hours after death. The oculomotor cranial nerve is part of the cerebellum at the back of the spinal cord and was not damaged by the blow. The blow (traumatic brain injury] or TBI resulted in a diffuse axonal injury as bleeding into the cranial edema in the form of hematoma had not had sufficient time to bleed after/ or at the point of death.
The cranial injury was so severe that the brain itself was relocated along the mid line for an estimated 30 degrees along the scalp. Also, and much more important, the sound of the actual contact was extremely loud.The noise was demonstrated to the grand jury by a golf club, in a full swing, contacting a typical bathroom tile wall. It would have been heard in every single room of the house.

When the jury members visited the house the sound was recreated again. No one actually knows just what the jury members heard or wrote down however some could hear it outside the house as well.

Which is why I posted this. I'm adding new comments in blue.

Could you please provide some resources or links for your information? (did you c/p it from somewhere?)


I question these statements:
"She was already dead but the circulation process does not stop upon the exact chronological point of death." Yes, it does. Circulation does not continue after death.
"...papillary responses can continue for up to 8 hours after death." What does this even mean? papilla has to do with hair root.
(and how does "papillary response" apply to this case?) It doesn't, that's how.
"oculomotor cranial nerve is part of the cerebellum at the back of the spinal cord". No. No, it isn't.
"The blow (traumatic brain injury] or TBI resulted in a diffuse axonal injury". Are you sure about that? Where is that in the AR?
"bleeding into the cranial edema in the form of hematoma had not had sufficient time to bleed". This doesn't even make sense. (bleeding had not had time to bleed? what?)
"the brain itself was relocated along the mid line for an estimated 30 degrees along the scalp". Also, doesn't make sense. (the brain was relocated along the scalp? what?)
"The noise was demonstrated to the grand jury by a golf club, in a full swing, contacting a typical bathroom tile wall. It would have been heard in every single room of the house." ???
"When the jury members visited the house the sound was recreated again. No one actually knows just what the jury members heard or wrote down however some could hear it outside the house as well." ???
This is a non-comparison. A golf club on a bathroom tile would not replicate the sound of an instrument against a human head densely filled with brain tissue and covered with hair. I'd like to know where you got this info. I stand by this.

TIA for any further info you might be able to provide.

 

[ameliak]

kanzz

Respectfully snipped and BBM:

"...papillary responses can continue for up to 8 hours after death." What does this even mean? papilla has to do with hair root.
(and how does "papillary response" apply to this case?) It doesn't, that's how.

spooky24 must be talking about "pupillary" responses. But a strange post by him/her & I agree with your response to him/her.

 

[kanzz]

kanzz

Respectfully snipped and BBM:

"...papillary responses can continue for up to 8 hours after death." What does this even mean? papilla has to do with hair root.
(and how does "papillary response" apply to this case?) It doesn't, that's how.

spooky24 must be talking about "pupillary" responses. But a strange post by him/her & I agree with your response to him/her.

Thanks, ameliak. Yes, maybe this person meant to say "pupillary response", but still the entire statement would be erroneous. The pupils don't respond post mortem. Crazy talk. Lol

 

[Ambitioned]

Thanks, ameliak. Yes, maybe this person meant to say "pupillary response", but still the entire statement would be erroneous. The pupils don't respond post mortem. Crazy talk. Lol

And extremely supercilious, IMO.

 

[ZoriahNZ]

spooky24
If all of this is so obvious to you, based on the facts and evidence of the case, why not share the wealth of your knowledge? Why not give clear links or instructions as to how to obtain the information you've mentioned above? Not everyone is a supersleuth who knows how to search for certain kinds of information online or via other methods.

However, I suspect that you do not want such details to be too public, because, as you rightly have hinted, it could compromise the case should it ever come to jury trial. What's the term? Sub Judice Rule?

I get that. But then it makes your admonishment of our LACK of interest in the hints you previously posted, or lack of puristic investigative ardor, seem a bit out of order.

 

[AlGx]

The fact that she was strangled from behind does say something.. almost like the person killing her didn't want to see her face when she was dying. Does anyone know if they found any footprints on the back of her shirt- in case someone was holding her down to apply more pressure??

 

[BBB167893]

The fact that she was strangled from behind does say something.. almost like the person killing her didn't want to see her face when she was dying.

IMO, there's no "almost" about it.

Does anyone know if they found any footprints on the back of her shirt- in case someone was holding her down to apply more pressure??

No footprints, no marks of any kind that I know of.

 

[singularity]

There's bruising on her shoulder. No one knows for sure how it got there but I'd imagine a knee on her shoulders while strangling her might do it.

 

[AndHence]

I think of the strangulation as of a piece with the ransom note. They are part of an intruder sales job by the Ramseys. The crime had to be made to look vicious and uncharacteristic of loving Christian parents. The note had to be there to explain JonBenet's disappearance/death; it is the only thing that even suggests at an outside actor being in the house that night. The note and the strangulation serve to point away from familial involvement. Had the parents called 911 without a ransom note and with no outward sign of a violent act (the head wound left no external bleeding), LE would have arrested the parents on the spot.

 

[AlGx]

There's bruising on her shoulder. No one knows for sure how it got there but I'd imagine a knee on her shoulders while strangling her might do it.

Ah,you mean the small circle shaped bruise on her right shoulder? I see what you mean.

 

[PremeditatedCrime]

The garrote is one of the things that makes me think JR was involved in the coverup. As a middle aged woman with no military experience, a garotte is completely alien and unfamiliar to me.

Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk

Plus Patsy and Burke would not be physically stronge enough to break the paintbrush.

But I don't think it was a coverup. I think John killed JB to prevent her from reporting PREVIOUS sexual abuse; framed Patsy, and probably convinced Patsy that Burke had done it by accident.

That's what I think.