Identified! Greece - LIVING 4 year old, with Roma couple, Oct'13 - #2

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From this report:

Judicial records show that a Sasha Ruseva was arrested in early 2009 – the same period as Maria was handed to the gipsies in Greece – on suspicion of trying to sell a baby, but she skipped bail and escaped with the child.


In January this year a Sasha Ruseva was arrested in Thessaloniki, close to the Bulgarian border, for the same offence. On that occasion a child was taken into care and the mother was charged but disappeared before a court hearing.
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It will be interesting to see if this is the same "Sasha Ruseva" as those two arrests. If it is, then there is a 12th child, and who knows how many more that no one knows about. It should be pretty easy for authorities to figure out from mugshots and fingerprints.

There is also this report, saying that a local businessman had tried to adopt Maria, then returned her after realizing she had eye problems.

So, in that scenario, she (or a third party) would have attempted to adopt out Maria, but it failed and she was returned. Presumably that caught the attention of authorities and the mother had to leave Greece in a hurry. But, without papers for Maria, she would have had to leave the child behind, and that could explain how Maria ended up in the local Greek Roma community.

If that is the case then there is a third party involved for sure. An illiterate impoverished peasant would not have the knowledge or skills to set something like that up, so there must be a trafficker who is arranging everything as a middleman. Providing services such as finding adoptive "clients", and finding/arranging for pregnant women to come and "work" in Greece when they are pregnant but not pregnant enough to raise concerns at the border. The women would accommodated in a local poor community that doesn't ask too many questions (such as the local Roma village) "working" until they give birth, and after that the child just disappears while the mother goes back home a few dollars richer. A nice little racket no doubt, that some trafficker is exploiting.
 
Tugela said:
From this report:



It will be interesting to see if this is the same "Sasha Ruseva" as those two arrests. If it is, then there is a 12th child, and who knows how many more that no one knows about. It should be pretty easy for authorities to figure out from mugshots and fingerprints.

There is also this report, saying that a local businessman had tried to adopt Maria, then returned her after realizing she had eye problems.

So, in that scenario, she (or a third party) would have attempted to adopt out Maria, but it failed and she was returned. Presumably that caught the attention of authorities and the mother had to leave Greece in a hurry. But, without papers for Maria, she would have had to leave the child behind, and that could explain how Maria ended up in the local Greek Roma community.

If that is the case then there is a third party involved for sure. An illiterate impoverished peasant would not have the knowledge or skills to set something like that up, so there must be a trafficker who is arranging everything as a middleman. Providing services such as finding adoptive "clients", and finding/arranging for pregnant women to come and "work" in Greece when they are pregnant but not pregnant enough to raise concerns at the border. The women would accommodated in a local poor community that doesn't ask too many questions (such as the local Roma village) "working" until they give birth, and after that the child just disappears while the mother goes back home a few dollars richer. A nice little racket no doubt, that some trafficker is exploiting.
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Great post, thank-you.

UGH :(
 
Tugela said:
And apparently there is an 11th child that they abandoned as well.
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My guess is that she could have had a lot more than 11. I presume that they are not using birth control, and since they got married young, one child could be appearing every year.
 
Little M is said to be doing very well. If it were up to me, I would leave her in Greece and adopt her out to some nice family. I really hope the child isn't send to Bulgaria. She never lived there.

"We have social workers and psychologists monitoring her but it seems like she is coming on in leaps and bounds" said Panagiotis Pardalis. "She is doing very well."

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/...o-hang-myself-if-they-take-away-my-other-kids
 
jjenny said:
Little M is said to be doing very well. If it were up to me, I would leave her in Greece and adopt her out to some nice family. I really hope the child isn't send to Bulgaria. She never lived there.

"We have social workers and psychologists monitoring her but it seems like she is coming on in leaps and bounds" said Panagiotis Pardalis. "She is doing very well."

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/...o-hang-myself-if-they-take-away-my-other-kids
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This seems very cruel , inhumane and vindictive to the Mother, no matter what she may or may not be, imo.
Since this is all a very unusual situation, may I suggest a social experiment of sorts to deal with it.
Let the authorities place the whole family into a decent furnished house or caravan for a period of time, and offer training in a suitable skill... I would suggest photography as they have now and probably for some time they will be familiar with cameras. They could photograph themselves and others and sell the pics.and get paid for interviews ect.


From the link..
bbm.
“I cannot live without them,” Sasha Ruseva told state broadcaster Bulgarian National TV (BNT) at her mud-floored dwelling in Nikolaevo. “I will go hang myself. I will take the rope and I will go.”
 
dotr, you must be a nice person.

I'm not that nice. These people IMO are dispecable. Anyone that has children and sells them obviously are either con artists or not sane. One kid maybe, but to keep have multiple kids and know you cannot take care of them is nuts. Take away all of these children and find good homes for them.

Being a parent isnt about dna and biology.
 
dotr said:
This seems very cruel , inhumane and vindictive to the Mother, no matter what she may or may not be, imo.
Since this is all a very unusual situation, may I suggest a social experiment of sorts to deal with it.
Let the authorities place the whole family into a decent furnished house or caravan for a period of time, and offer training in a suitable skill... I would suggest photography as they have now and probably for some time they will be familiar with cameras. They could photograph themselves and others and sell the pics.and get paid for interviews ect.


From the link..
bbm.
“I cannot live without them,” Sasha Ruseva told state broadcaster Bulgarian National TV (BNT) at her mud-floored dwelling in Nikolaevo. “I will go hang myself. I will take the rope and I will go.”
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MOO but I might take her desperation more seriously if she hadn't abandoned Maria in another country and left two of her other children behind when she went into hiding. And apparently possibly there might be some other abandoned kids too? If you can't live without your kids I suggest you try taking care of your brood instead of giving them to strangers or leaving them alone.

Neighbour Stanka Boyanova, 21, said: ‘Sasha is in hiding. She is frightened that she will be arrested and sent to jail.’

The feckless couple left two of their ten children, Philip, 10, and Minka, 14, behind to fend for themselves in the squalor of the gypsy camp on the edge of town.
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The Daily Mail can reveal that a woman with Sasha Ruseva's name has twice previously been arrested for trying to sell babies in Greece – and on both occasions skipped bail.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...an-IS-natural-mother-blonde-haired-Maria.html
 
burbqueen said:
dotr, you must be a nice person.

I'm not that nice. These people IMO are dispecable. Anyone that has children and sells them obviously are either con artists or not sane. One kid maybe, but to keep have multiple kids and know you cannot take care of them is nuts. Take away all of these children and find good homes for them.

Being a parent isnt about dna and biology.
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If only the people that can't afford, are incapable of parenting and lousy human beings would only stop reproducing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
burbqueen said:
dotr, you must be a nice person.

I'm not that nice. These people IMO are dispecable. Anyone that has children and sells them obviously are either con artists or not sane. One kid maybe, but to keep have multiple kids and know you cannot take care of them is nuts. Take away all of these children and find good homes for them.

Being a parent isnt about dna and biology.
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Although I think much of what has been done concerning all those kids is horrible, I must admit it pulled at my heart strings to think the b. mom was going to kill herself if the kids were all taken away from her.
There is a huge adoption scam going on imo. but this woman is just a cog in a big wheel. B.mom obviously is not raking in the big bucks for these babies, so wondering who is getting rich and why not nail them too?
Just a moment of passion over reason, wish I was that nice! lol
 
The mom is not going to kill herself over this. It is just the exaggerated theatrics common in that part of the world. She has already abandoned one kid, plus apparently a second one and maybe a third. Yet I don't see her hanging off any trees so far.
 
I'm not sure if this has been posted yet. I've stayed away from this thread. Way too much rage and prejudice IMO.

The anti-Roma stereotype knows no borders, and the story led to worldwide reports portraying Roma as child-abductors, child-exploiters and criminals.

Segregation of Roma children in schools is an enduring problem in Eastern Europe and the Balkans, as well as Greece, while parents in Italy regularly protest when there are “too many” Roma children in classes. Roma often live in substandard, segregated housing, and face forced evictions without adequate alternative housing options.

Societal violence and police harassment are part of life for European Roma, including children. Maria was picked up by police during a sweep operation of the Roma settlement in Farsala, part of a broader police operation across Greece involving unlawful and discriminatory ethnic profiling.
In Maria’s case, as in many others, authorities have a duty to investigate alleged cases of child abduction and protect the best interests of the child. But they also have an obligation not to engage in ethnic profiling or stigmatize an entire community. And that obligation extends to the entire community, politicians and media as well.

Over the past days, the world has focused frantically on Maria, the “blonde-haired angel.” But how about focusing on finding real solutions for the millions of Roma children and their families living in Europe? They deserve basic rights such as access to education, adequate housing, and freedom from discrimination, not more stereotypical reports on criminality and baby-snatching. http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2013/11/04/time-to-drop-the-roma-myths//
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raeann said:
EXACTLY! We are being "educated" repeatedly that it is perfectly fine for ALL children in the Roma culture to be handed around from family to family with no legal adoption or any consideration for the attachment of the child to their own family. THEN, in absolute direct contradiction to that point, we are being told that this child MUST be returned to the family she was "ripped" away from.
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Snipped for space.

Sigh.

I hope it's not me you think is "educating" everyone that it is perfectly fine for ALL Roma children to be passed around like a ball, or that it is fine for even one to be passed around like that. If so, please quote me.

I also never said I think this kid should go back to her bio-mom.

I think she should stay with her extended de facto adoptive family. And I don't think she should be adopted out of the culture.

Many of you may think it stinks. But there is a lot of richness and beauty there despite the poverty.
 
Sadly, there is no 'perfect' solution here. I don't believe bio-Mom will hang herself. I do believe that's a case of histrionics and perhaps translation issues.
I don't believe that placing Maria into a non-Roma family would be ideal, either. She's not an infant capable of melding to a new 'reality' and culture without significant issues.
I don't believe the Greek family will be imprisoned from what I know at this juncture. I think both Bulgaria and Greece are struggling terribly to balance the legal and ethical implications of this mess. Flying by the seat of their respective pants.
I do believe there is a culture of reproduction, poverty, stereotyping, and farming kids out at play. But this single case isn't going to undo many decades of cultural/ethno problems.
It's like placing a 10 year old Native American child from a reservation rife with poverty into a family in Chicago. It may make people *feel* better about the child's perceived future opportunities, but it likely would not necessarily benefit that child who spent years in one culture; albeit it perhaps in a situation *we* don't consider ideal.
We cannot impose our Western ethos on everyone else. It just isn't that simple.
My heart breaks for all involved.
 
How the Greek Establishment has Perverted the 'Maria' Roma Crisis for Cynical Ends

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/5...-maria-roma-abduction-farsala-golden-dawn.htm

If we want to change Maria's future, the future of all children, we have to have a proper conversation about how children are treated. Unfortunately the state and media are determined to ensure this conversation won't happen anytime soon.



The readers' editor on… the Guardian's coverage of the Roma child story in Greece

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/03/guardian-coverage-roma-child-story-greece

With such a highly charged subject, it's a fine line between reporting sympathetically and fuelling prejudice
 
Thread closed for further discussion. Please let the mods know if there is new news and we'll add it to the thread for reading only.
 
From Wanting2Help:


Reason:
Can you add this link to the thread?
From 6/3/14
A court has ruled a children's charity is to get legal custody of a blonde girl found living in a Greek gypsy camp.

The little girl, known only as Maria, has been cared for by the Smile of the Child organisation since she was seized by authorities in October last year.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/greek-girl-maria-found-roma-3639707#ixzz33aFDNXio
Follow us: @DailyMirror on Twitter | DailyMirror on Facebook

Thank you
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