GUILTY - Tammy Moorer trial for Kidnapping Heather Elvis, 8 Oct 2018 - #10

[hbone]

Bet she gets disability. Polly can use that to put money on her commissary account and help with the children.

 

[tmar]

Million dollar question. We'd all love to know.

We'll probably all find out at the murder trial: if and when.
MOO.

 

[hbone]

Remember seeing a photo of the apartment where there was an overflowing suitcase that appeared to have been hastily packed.
Wonder if Sidney told her, in addition to wanting to leave Tammy & be with Heather, that they would need to “run away together” & she had packed her bag in anticipation of that?

 

[Surfside]

Remember seeing a photo of the apartment where there was an overflowing suitcase that appeared to have been hastily packed.
Wonder if Sidney told her, in addition to wanting to leave Tammy & be with Heather, that they would need to “run away together” & she had packed her bag in anticipation of that?

Interesting. I thought the suitcase was not yet unpacked from her moving in with BW. Bri testified the owner of the condo she was renting from kept the master bedroom locked, but when Heather moved in, and they didn't have anywhere to put her stuff, BW unlocked the master and put Heather's stuff in there. I just assumed Heather was living out of the suitcase and hadn't unpacked it yet.

 

[TTF14]

Interesting. I thought the suitcase was not yet unpacked from her moving in with BW. Bri testified the owner of the condo she was renting from kept the master bedroom locked, but when Heather moved in, and they didn't have anywhere to put her stuff, BW unlocked the master and put Heather's stuff in there. I just assumed Heather was living out of the suitcase and hadn't unpacked it yet.

Yes, Bri testified to this and it makes perfect sense. She didn't have a dresser in which to store her belongings.

 

[Surfside]

Yes, Bri testified to this and it makes perfect sense. She didn't have a dresser in which to store her belongings.

In the first picture, you can see the trash bags still fully packed with Heather's belongings. You can also see a beach/pool towel and some bedding next to the suitcase. In the 2nd photo, you can really tell how high things are piled on top of the suitcase. I don't believe she would've thought she could shove all that down in there and get the suitcase to close. When I was 20 and living with roommates, my clothes were strewn all over my bedroom floor, unless we straightened up for a party. And if we went on a road trip, who knows how long my stuff would sit in my bag when I got back. And I had a dresser and a closet! I don't mean to project; I'm just using my own time machine to try and put myself in the mindset of a 20-year old. Anything is possible, but I believe she was just living like a 20-year old. JMO.

 

[tarheelslim]

Anyone have any ideas what the male cousin saw in the picture where he said he didn't think he would ever see HE again?

I agree with those who think it looked like she was dead, but you can't ask "was she dead in this photo?" because you can't testify (well unless it is particularly gruesome) whether or not someone is dead in a photo.

I guess I'm one of the few who isn't completely convinced that the photo existed. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't. I want more proof. For a crime so well conceived and carried out that they almost got away with it, I would be surprised that they would create proof that they did it, and that they would save it for that long (long after the police were looking at them).

 

[tarheelslim]

Because people are bringing up the cigar a lot: back when it was first revealed that he bought a cigar, I feel like it was named what type of cigar he had bought and it was one often associated with blunts. I know that I assumed that the purpose was for it to be turned into a blunt, perhaps to cool out after the crime or maybe to deaden his mind enough to commit it in the first place.

 

[TTF14]

In the first picture, you can see the trash bags still fully packed with Heather's belongings. You can also see a beach/pool towel and some bedding next to the suitcase. In the 2nd photo, you can really tell how high things are piled on top of the suitcase. I don't believe she would've thought she could shove all that down in there and get the suitcase to close. When I was 20 and living with roommates, my clothes were strewn all over my bedroom floor, unless we straightened up for a party. And if we went on a road trip, who knows how long my stuff would sit in my bag when I got back. And I had a dresser and a closet! I don't mean to project; I'm just using my own time machine to try and put myself in the mindset of a 20-year old. Anything is possible, but I believe she was just living like a 20-year old. JMO.

My 17 year old still has a huge suitcase from an August vacation sitting in the middle of her VERY messy bedroom.

 

[lstiff]

I agree with those who think it looked like she was dead, but you can't ask "was she dead in this photo?" because you can't testify (well unless it is particularly gruesome) whether or not someone is dead in a photo.

I guess I'm one of the few who isn't completely convinced that the photo existed. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't. I want more proof. For a crime so well conceived and carried out that they almost got away with it, I would be surprised that they would create proof that they did it, and that they would save it for that long (long after the police were looking at them).

Normally I would say that someone who behaves like the Ms have would not leave that sort of evidence but with TM/SM it would not surprise me at all that they had a "flip phone" with a picture of Heather. IMHO TM has at least 1 trophy from that night. I don't know what or where it is but my opinion of her personality from the past 5 years is she would need to keep something close by. Even something as small as Heather's actual key ring or something in plain sight.

IMO

 

[bestill]

A week later and would love to be a fly on the wall in a certain SC prison right now...

Thinking that TM has to be very involved in what happened to Heather because she risked and lost it all. If she hadn't been why would she spend the majority of the rest of her life in prison? She and her family would have thrown SM under the bus and buried him IF she weren't involved. She's got the goods on him and he's got them on her.

 

[brandalous]

About to do a big multiquote!

Nancy brought up the wrecked car with both AC and TM. Sidney talked about the wrecked car in his interview with Large and TM posted about it on FB. IMO, there is something up with that car.

I believe that TM was using it to follow Heather around town, because it wouldn't have fancy things like a GPS/nav system and it would be unknown to Heather. One of them said the car is now long gone, so I wonder if it was compacted with evidence inside? Or maybe I'm just remembering something far-fetched from a crime show. Ha!

She (her phone pings) spent the most amount of time at LBs. IIRC in SM trial, the phone expert went into detail about her phone moving around while it was there (walking in the parking lot is what I pictured) so she must have gotten out of her car there and why would she get out if she was alone? In my mind, if she were waiting she would have stayed in her car where it was warm. Even if she was smoking (not that I know she was a smoker but DH is so I just throw that in my theories), I think she would have stayed in her warm car. The phone heads back then changes course then goes to PTL (IIRC right?) so IMHO that is the guilty parties figuring out what to do with her car. I think they were going to leave it back at her apt but decided on PTL at the last minute and those frantic calls from PTL were not Heather. Even if they did take her in their truck, I don't think she was the one driving her car which makes more sense b/c how would they get her from her car into the truck without anyone at the apt complex seeing them?

Does anyone have a theory where she did willing drive herself to PTL?


IMHO

IIRC in SM's first trial his lawyer tried to bring out that one of Heather's exes lived nearby Longbeards and could have been there meeting him for her illicit sex escapades or drugs. Pretty sure there was a sustained objection to it.

I agree with the last of your post, that the later phone calls were not her. Everything after her Instagram/Tumblr/wherever activity I think was Moorers <modsnipped>. I think that's why TM pointed out that SM's DNA would be in her car, so that would be explained away.

Speaking of DNA, didn't they say at this trial that they found cigarette butts but did not test them for DNA? I kinda think they should! Maybe one was that cigar.

ETA - Re Heather willingly driving to PTL. I could see her doing so at gunpoint, but that would only mean she willingly went because she thought she could stall for time or they promised they wouldn't hurt her. So the willingly is more of a "willingly."

Normally I would say that someone who behaves like the Ms have would not leave that sort of evidence but with TM/SM it would not surprise me at all that they had a "flip phone" with a picture of Heather. IMHO TM has at least 1 trophy from that night. I don't know what or where it is but my opinion of her personality from the past 5 years is she would need to keep something close by. Even something as small as Heather's actual key ring or something in plain sight.

IMO

I think she absolutely still has that flip phone and after watching how strongly she hugged PC after her sentencing, I'm betting she stowed it safely on the property so someone she trusts could watch it if she didn't come home. Or maybe it's under the new driveway or under the fire pit. There was some discussion earlier about the trip to see SM's parents, and I could easily see that being a way to dispose of evidence that would degrade due to being outdoors such as that favorite outfit that Bri said was missing or that new unique phone case she had just gotten. So, I'm saying that I think the keys and heather's phone are somewhere on Casa C/M.

Also there were several posts about disposal of her body, and I remembered something. One of the times that TM went on one of her crazy, epic FB-posting rants (OK to talk about the existence of, but not the content in, yes?) was around the time that Horry County officials pulled up a series of submerged oil barrels near a bridge. Prosecutor Jimmy Richards was there according to local news stations. I think if she doesn't know for sure that's how/where it was done (as in previous posts of mine,<modsnipped>), then she had reason to believe it was a possibility and panicked.

Edited to add a few clarifying words and another thought.

 

[YESorNO]

Here is where Tammy Moorer is being housed after her conviction in kidnapping case

October 30, 2018

"Tammy Moorer is being held in a Columbia women’s prison following her conviction for conspiracy and kidnapping Heather Elvis in 2013.

Moorer is currently at the evaluation center of Graham Correctional Institution in Columbia, according to S.C. Department of Corrections records. That facility is about 94 miles in driving distance — 83 miles as the crow flies — from Lee Correctional Institution where her co-defendant Sidney Moorer is held.

Once the DOC review is complete, Moorer will be assigned to a prison....."

Here is where Tammy Moorer is being housed after her conviction in kidnapping case
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Harmony 2]

I agree with those who think it looked like she was dead, but you can't ask "was she dead in this photo?" because you can't testify (well unless it is particularly gruesome) whether or not someone is dead in a photo.

I guess I'm one of the few who isn't completely convinced that the photo existed. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't. I want more proof. For a crime so well conceived and carried out that they almost got away with it, I would be surprised that they would create proof that they did it, and that they would save it for that long (long after the police were looking at them).

bolded by me

What I can't make sense of is if they had a flip phone and used a payphone then why incriminate themselves by using Heather's phone for her last phone calls to Sidney ( a 4 minute call from her apartment parking lot and several calls from PTL? Those calls drew attention on Sidney and that is why detectives showed up at his home the next day.

 

[lstiff]

bolded by me

What I can't make sense of is if they had a flip phone and used a payphone then why incriminate themselves by using Heather's phone for her last phone calls to Sidney ( a 4 minute call from her apartment parking lot and several calls from PTL? Those calls drew attention on Sidney and that is why detectives showed up at his home the next day.

I think that is why so many of us (at least me) think that it wasn't Heather using her phone for those calls. IIRC in this trial, after that call or during (?) NL states the car and truck are both in motion towards PTL so either that was one M calling the other M or they left when Heather called saying she was at PTL. It just makes the rest of her activity in between the payphone call and PTL odd. She left her apt & went to LBs then towards home then back to LBs then all the way back home briefly then to PTL. I just think if it were Heather alone she would have called or text or posted on SM if she was just "killing time" waiting for a call back. IDK though. That part of the timeline is what gut punches me b/c I can't imagine how terrified and shocked she was whenever she realized she was not in a safe situation that lead to her disappearance.

IMO

 

[Surfside]

bolded by me

What I can't make sense of is if they had a flip phone and used a payphone then why incriminate themselves by using Heather's phone for her last phone calls to Sidney ( a 4 minute call from her apartment parking lot and several calls from PTL? Those calls drew attention on Sidney and that is why detectives showed up at his home the next day.

That's why I think someone took TM's & SM's phones back to the compound, so they would ping there. I feel like the plan was to leave Heather's car at her apartment, but something went awry with that plan. Maybe the person driving it panicked if their ride wasn't there to pick them up right away? Maybe that panic caused them to call from the only phone in their possession (Heather's) to SM's phone? Maybe that's why nobody answered the first call to SM's phone from Heather's? Maybe that's why the truck drove so fast to and from PTL to pick that person up, because it wasn't part of the plan? JMO.

 

[Surfside]

Regarding the flip phone, I fully believe TM would have wanted a token from that night. I also fully believe DD's testimony that he saw an image of Heather on it. Where was the phone hidden while they were incarcerated? I don't know, but I suspect the phone is gone now. After DD testified about it in SM's trial, I imagine TM knew better than to keep it and probably got rid of it. She's arrogant, but does her arrogance outweigh her intelligence and self-preservation instinct? I don't know. I hope it still exists and it's found. I just don't know if she would be careless enough to keep it after its existence has been made public knowledge.

 

[bestill]

This is really in response to @brandalous and her great post! I too believe that TM was using her mother's car to follow or stalk Heather. I wonder if the "Got he ad" was really TM letting someone know that she had Heather's address that night?

This is to @Harmony 2 and @lstiff I think I read the suggestion that SM used the pay phone because Heather had their numbers blocked on her phone. Can't remember where I read that. I don't think Heather was making all of those call that night either and I can't believe those two could get away with murder, they aren't that smart - they are just lucky so far.

 

[JerseyGirl]

DATELINE NBC: PARENTS OF MISSING SOUTH CAROLINA WOMAN SPEAK OUT ABOUT DISAPPEARANCE THAT MADE NATIONAL HEADLINES

Heather Elvis’ Father tells Dateline in First National TV Interview: “We’re not giving up”

The Landing Airs Friday, November 2 at 10 p.m. ET/PT, 9 p.m. CT

So 20/20 scraped the interview with TM last week and Dateline is now airing an interview with TE on Friday?

 

[Gardenista]

So 20/20 scraped the interview with TM last week and Dateline is now airing an interview with TE on Friday?

TE, ME, BW and TM. From the link:

Friday’s broadcast also features interviews with Heather’s sister, Morgan, and her friend, B**** W*******. Additionally, Tammy Moorer sits down for her first interview since being convicted. Dateline first reported Heather’s story on the broadcast’s Missing in America digital series, shortly after she disappeared in December 2013.