Hannah's Journey on 09/13

It is strange timing. Although we should keep in mind that JM is tied to University rapes being swept under the rug (granted not UVa, but Va).
And maybe with all the talk and trauma the Uni has been going through, the victim of the frat rape wanted to come forward/felt compelled to do so, hearing that another female student died of (most likely) rape and violence.
I love that she went straight to Rolling Stone. No messing around with the Cavalier Daily or The Cville Weekly.

This is OT a bit, but thought that those who participated in the Rolling Stone discussion might be interested in knowing that magazine is now apologizing and casting doubt on the veracity of "Jackie" the victim in the story. I must say I am floored. I cannot imagine how those young women who came forward must feel. The fraternity lawyered up and went on the attack to discredit her, and it worked. That Rolling Stone caved says a lot; the frats seem to have some very powerful alumni.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...a5f7d2-7c91-11e4-84d4-7c896b90abdc_story.html
 
This is OT a bit, but thought that those who participated in the Rolling Stone discussion might be interested in knowing that magazine is now apologizing and casting doubt on the veracity of "Jackie" the victim in the story. I must say I am floored. I cannot imagine how those young women who came forward must feel. The fraternity lawyered up and went on the attack to discredit her, and it worked. That Rolling Stone caved says a lot; the frats seem to have some very powerful alumni.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...a5f7d2-7c91-11e4-84d4-7c896b90abdc_story.html

Oh My Gosh - I just read their recant. It's obviously pressure from somewhere.

On with the facts.

So now can they interview the appropriate people, and finish their investigation?
 
http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1.../p2p-82199541/

University of Virginia President Teresa A. Sullivan said the school is aware of the reports discrediting the Rolling Stone story, and "remains first and foremost concerned with the care and support of our students and, especially, any survivor of sexual assault."
"Over the past two weeks, our community has been more focused than ever on one of the most difficult and critical issues facing higher education today," Sullivan said in a statement. "Today's news must not alter this focus." UVA will continue to review its practices and policies related to sexual assault, Sullivan said.
Police in Charlottesville, Va., who had begun investigating the allegations at the request of the university, said it would continue its probe. "Our purpose is to find the truth in any matter and that's what we are looking for here," said Charlottesville Police Captain Gary Pleasants in a statement. "These articles do not change our focus going forward."

I am so glad UVA is doing the right thing and continuing their investigations. I would hope that Rolling Stone would also continue in their efforts. We are all in this for the same reason, to find out what actually happened and to hold those accountable. Lastly to prevent this from happening again.
 
If someone drugged HG at a frat party, I definitely think they should be held accountable in some way for drugging someone unwittingly. It's a blurred range of accountability if said drugging begat disorientation, begat walking alone, begat an easy target for JLM. Same can be said for if Tempo served HG alcohol I think (in terms of where does one place the blame).

But JLM abducts, rapes, and murders people on his own. All I'm saying is that I don't believe there is a chronic culture at UVa such that people are habitually drugging women at frat parties to prep for sexual violence whereby the administration covers it up to create a false sense of security in the entire town of C-ville which would hold the University responsible for HG's abduction, rape, and murder. Or for MH's. The perp being someone who is not, and was never, a student. And who was almost certainly (IMO) never associated with the UVa greek party scene.

Whether or not UVa and it's administration has handled past rape accusations appropriately, or has tried to protect an image of some sort for some reason, is an entirely different story IMO. (And I won't get into that topic as I only know what I've personally experienced myself and from friends and, like most of us, don't have enough inside information).

It's hard, having grown up in Cville and having been a student at UVa, to see the town and the university being dragged through the mud a bit right now. I pretty much blame it on JLM. Of course, any of these male college students who have done something like what has been alleged in RS make me ill, and they should bear full weight of fault for those wrongdoings. But the timing of the article and the way it was written, in my opinion, tries to draw parallels and cause/effect around UVa's party scene and the murders of MH and HG. Article doesn't state it explicitly, but it doesn't have to IMO. I was aware that JLM hurt many people through his killing escapades- his victims, their families and friends, his family and friends, etc. It's just additionally sad to me that he's now somehow gotten tangentially associated with a University I am proud to have graduated from. And while JLM may have lived in C-ville, JLM "does not a bad city make". He's a monster. They exist everywhere.
MOO

Anyway. I'm done I think with commenting on this topic. Thanks to all for the opportunity to share my opinions on it.
BBM: Jumping off your post, yes, JLM is responsible for her death. Where the line gets fuzzy is here: Would Hannah have been where she was, in whatever state of inebriation or having been drugged (if she was so) had she not been part of the "party" scene (that the school does nothing to stop) earlier that evening? Could she have defended herself stone cold sober at one o'clock in the afternoon in the same location with the same man? Was where she was, and the state she was in a contributing factor to her death, and was the state she was in the fault of another individual or individuals? If I get run over by a truck because I was just standing in the street, it's my fault. If I get run over by a truck because I was crossing the street at the light and the truck driver runs his red light, it's his fault. If I get run over by a truck because someone pushed me into the street, it's that person's fault. It does matter how a person ends up in the position they get put in.

***Virginia law states: § 4.1-306. Purchasing alcoholic beverages for one to whom they may not be sold; penalty; forfeiture.

A. Any person who purchases alcoholic beverages for another person, and at the time of such purchase knows or has reason to believe that the person for whom the alcoholic beverage was purchased was (i) interdicted, or (ii) intoxicated, is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

A1. Any person who purchases for, or otherwise gives, provides, or assists in the provision of alcoholic beverages to another person, when he knows or has reason to know that such person was less than 21 years of age, except (i) pursuant to subdivisions 1 through 7 of § 4.1-200; (ii) where possession of the alcoholic beverages by a person less than 21 years of age is due to such person's making a delivery of alcoholic beverages in pursuance of his employment or an order of his parent; or (iii) by any state, federal, or local law-enforcement officer when possession of an alcoholic beverage is necessary in the performance of his duties, is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor

By the above law, if anyone younger than 21 year old was served alcohol, it was against the law. I don't have the drug law handy, but I'm fairly certain it is against the law to slip drugs into someone's drink or food. That the universities do nothing to stop this, or not enough to stop this, in my opinion, makes them culpable if any of it happened on their campus. And don't tell me "Kids always underage drink." People kill other people, too. It doesn't mean it should be acceptable, just because it is done.
 
IMHO Hannah was on the snowboarding team and soccor player she was in excellent health. Any alcohol her body would through it off pretty fast. After she walked all the way to the mall anyway. When she passes back and forth in front of the shell station, I think she knew she was lost and wasn't sure which way to go. So she ended up at the mall trying to find her way back. The whole time at the mall she was in a hurry and scared. Last seen t 1:08. She could have very well have made it to where her last text said she was...Police said friends and family contacted them Sunday afternoon after last hearing from Graham about 1:30 a.m. Saturday.

That’s when she sent a text message to a friend saying she was lost walking home from a party near 14th and Wertland.

Soccor players run 8 or more miles a day . Poor Hannah could easily ran 2 miles in 23 minutes probley faster. She was a tall girl in excellent shape and I bet she fought for her life. There were two other rapes on Wertland street that night. Just saying!

HG never went back and forth in front of Shell. One of the Shell surveillance videos is rewinding and replaying so it makes it look like she is running back and forth in front of Shell. Also she had been walking for an hour and looked tired. She was intoxicated. She is hunching over in the mall video. She sent the text at 1:20am saying she is at 14th and Wertland.
 
Hi everyone,
Long time lurker of websleuths and joined specifically for Hannah Graham. Now, I'm hoping this doesn't violate the rules here, but I was looking for the video footage of Hannah and stumbled across this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6Z4PhjYIII (no idea how to make it click through, sorry) if you look at the comments from "attorand1", this might be a clue as to how she ended up with LJ at Tempo. Sorry if this has already been discussed, (haven't been through this whole thread) i'm dubious at best about it, especially as it can't really be verified but figured it wouldn't hurt to add to the discussion.
 
Hi everyone,
Long time lurker of websleuths and joined specifically for Hannah Graham. Now, I'm hoping this doesn't violate the rules here, but I was looking for the video footage of Hannah and stumbled across this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6Z4PhjYIII (no idea how to make it click through, sorry) if you look at the comments from "attorand1", this might be a clue as to how she ended up with LJ at Tempo. Sorry if this has already been discussed, (haven't been through this whole thread) i'm dubious at best about it, especially as it can't really be verified but figured it wouldn't hurt to add to the discussion.

I didn't see a user name "att......???
 
I also wondered about the possibility of something like Uber. And I dont know much about Tinder, but I think any app that people know you are looking for a date and they know what vicinity you are in is a HORRIBLE idea!
 
I also wondered about the possibility of something like Uber. And I dont know much about Tinder, but I think any app that people know you are looking for a date and they know what vicinity you are in is a HORRIBLE idea!


Completely agree. I also have trouble believing that Hannah (who by all accounts is a very intelligent girl) would run off away from her friends to meet some guy almost 15+ years her senior in the middle of the night. Though, I guess stranger things have happened..
 
Completely agree. I also have trouble believing that Hannah (who by all accounts is a very intelligent girl) would run off away from her friends to meet some guy almost 15+ years her senior in the middle of the night. Though, I guess stranger things have happened..

I think he would have edited his profile in order to seem more appealing. Why not present himself as a visiting professor and subtract a few years? Or a relief worker from the Dominican Republic? Isn't that what people do anyway?
 
I think he would have edited his profile in order to seem more appealing. Why not present himself as a visiting professor and subtract a few years? Or a relief worker from the Dominican Republic? Isn't that what people do anyway?
Yeah, I don't think he went online and said he was a poor hospital lackey living in squalor, with a history of rape and murder !!!
 
Hi everyone,
Long time lurker of websleuths and joined specifically for Hannah Graham. Now, I'm hoping this doesn't violate the rules here, but I was looking for the video footage of Hannah and stumbled across this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6Z4PhjYIII (no idea how to make it click through, sorry) if you look at the comments from "attorand1", this might be a clue as to how she ended up with LJ at Tempo. Sorry if this has already been discussed, (haven't been through this whole thread) i'm dubious at best about it, especially as it can't really be verified but figured it wouldn't hurt to add to the discussion.

Surprised we didn't see this before! I notice that attorand1 says HG walked to go to meet with her abductor. If this person is legit, it sounds like they buy into the theory that HG went to the DTM intentionally to meet with someone in particular--that she didn't just land there because she was lost. This could be someone who is privy to the content of her texts? I have a hard time seeing JM making arrangements through Tinder, given the condition he seemed to be in that night, but you just never know.
 
Surprised we didn't see this before! I notice that attorand1 says HG walked to go to meet with her abductor. If this person is legit, it sounds like they buy into the theory that HG went to the DTM intentionally to meet with someone in particular--that she didn't just land there because she was lost. This could be someone who is privy to the content of her texts? I have a hard time seeing JM making arrangements through Tinder, given the condition he seemed to be in that night, but you just never know.

It is nice to see that a ski club acquaintance supports what was shared early on by LE in the press. Hannah was on her own after they met for dinner. I posted on this at #1283; here is relevant part:

One other thing came to light for me too. I have been assuming all this time that the Ski club friends were with HG later that night; that she was intending to meet up with them, and that she was texting them for directions. Now I think that is not so. Looking at what Longo said:

Graham had dinner with friends at a Corner restaurant, then left on her own and headed to two separate house parties at off campus student residences, where police say, she drank...

This means to me that she dined and danced with her ski club friends, but they went their separate ways for the evening after this. It explains why no one was concerned that she never showed up for the party that we assumed she was later meeting them at. It also explains why no one was concerned until 4:30 pm the next day that to report her missing, doesn't it?

This has me wondering just who she was texting for directions, and if they didn't lead her to McGrady's and the mall intentionally. I get the feeling that she did not know the people she was partying with very well and obviously were in a different social circle than her closer ski club friends.


I think she was hooking up with or at least meeting a cute frat boy. I also think that the RS report on "Jackie" was no coincidence in its timing and it interests me how the story has been discredited and all but disappeared. Could HG have been roofied and sent on some wild goose chase in a hazing or pledging challenge? To me, that is more plausible than her hooking up with JM on social media.

I think that her abductor and killer is the one who gave her explicit directions from McGrady's to the Mall. He offered to "help" get her home by picking her up there. This is why her cell phone is missing. How else could she go from getting lost in her own neighborhood and stumbling off a curb drunk to traversing a majorly busy business loop and walking on foot to the mall without being lost there too? It makes no sense. She trusted what someone was telling her. IMO, it was not JM. From my post #1282 on 11/11/14:


I think she did; however, either use her GPS or someone gave her step by step directions onto the DM. It is also reported in the same article that HG is seen at the Crossing low income housing building at Preston and 4th. Pretty sure this was discussed, but I think it shows she had to have guidance on where to cross what looks like a very pedestrian unfriendly crossing around that huge BUS250 belt. She knew to head South on 4th from Preston and cross through a parking area (she was also placed at Notch Computers) and emerge onto Market St taking 2nd past Fellini's right onto the Mall. How could she have been so out of it to not be able to self correct near where she lived but follow these very specific directions onto the DM. She had to have had gotten her bearings enough to use her GPS, or someone texted her explicit directions, the question is who did? Sorry I can't provide a map; never can get Google too cooperate with me on marking them up.


This is all MOO and sheer conjecture, of course, but to me it makes the most sense.
 
I think she was hooking up with or at least meeting a cute frat boy. I also think that the RS report on "Jackie" was no coincidence in its timing and it interests me how the story has been discredited and all but disappeared. Could HG have been roofied and sent on some wild goose chase in a hazing or pledging challenge? To me, that is more plausible than her hooking up with JM on social media.

rsbm

OT?
Coincidentally, just today, an article was released saying that U.Va. has reinstated Phi Kappa Psi, since they could find no evidence to back up the claims in the Rolling Stone article.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...raternity-accused-in-rolling-stone-rape-story
 
Nothing can change the outcome of HG's journey that night, but knowing she didn't indirectly voluntarily fall into his hands leaves me feeling maybe a tiny bit less helpless than I felt thinking she may have trusted JM to take her to another party or home. The information that has now been released about that night shows she did not voluntarily get into his car--that she refused to get into his car; that she had managed to ditch him at some point even though it was inevitable she wasn't going to succeed in her condition. Looks like she did fight--witnesses said he had facial/jaw injuries the next day. From the sounds of all the facts that are now known, she truly was lost and had not been looking for more parties like I had previously suspected. It's still a little confusing as to why no one went to pick her up, or why she didn't call for a cab at some point during the night. Such a waste of a young life... I.hate.liquor.
 
Nothing can change the outcome of HG's journey that night, but knowing she didn't indirectly voluntarily fall into his hands leaves me feeling maybe a tiny bit less helpless than I felt thinking she may have trusted JM to take her to another party or home. The information that has now been released about that night shows she did not voluntarily get into his car--that she refused to get into his car; that she had managed to ditch him at some point even though it was inevitable she wasn't going to succeed in her condition. Looks like she did fight--witnesses said he had facial/jaw injuries the next day. From the sounds of all the facts that are now known, she truly was lost and had not been looking for more parties like I had previously suspected. It's still a little confusing as to why no one went to pick her up, or why she didn't call for a cab at some point during the night. Such a waste of a young life... I.hate.liquor.

After reading the "Statement of Facts" I'm most concerned that those who observed and were victims of JLM's pattern of overt sexual touching and grabbing that night did not report him to law enforcement. It sounds like he cut a wide swath with women scattering to get away from him in at least four commercial establishments and the public area on C'ville's Downtown Mall....
 
After reading the "Statement of Facts" I'm most concerned that those who observed and were victims of JLM's pattern of overt sexual touching and grabbing that night did not report him to law enforcement. It sounds like he cut a wide swath with women scattering to get away from him in at least four commercial establishments and the public area on C'ville's Downtown Mall....


How do you know they wouldn't have reported him the next day? You're saying they should have reported him that night? Honestly, women are given so much crap when they report sexual harassment or assault by men, that I can understand why someone wouldn't bother.
 
Read the "Statement of Facts" recently published along with JLM's plea arrangement, and you'll see that "during the evening of September 12, 2014, and the early morning of September 13, 2014, the defendant visited a number of local bars and began a pattern of physically invasive and inappropriate behavior toward women. Several women later informed investigators the defendant made them feel uncomfortable and made unwanted sexual advances toward them, including persistent offensive and inappropriate touching." His actions were not an isolated incident, and would seem to warrant reports to either bar management and law enforcement that night. The SoF also indicates that a couple saw JLM make a U-turn on the downtown and come back to encounter Hannah. He immediately put his arm around her, and they observed him escorting her to Tempo where JLM bought her a drink. Upon leaving Tempo, one of the witnesses commented to the other, "He's gonna **** her up." Another witness observed Hannah standing by Mathew's car and in an "elevated, rapid and frightened voice" say "I'm not getting in that car with you! What is it, stolen?" Hannah would likely still be alive if one or more of these observers or targets of his inappropriate advances had stepped up and done the right thing....
 

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