Help identifying dead man's tattoo

[charminglane]

The edges on the small image appear to be irregular petals, like a poppy.
The knife has pierced the large poppy bud to collect the opium inside.
Afghanistan, again.

 

[fred&edna]

The larger circle and what is inside and projecting
from it is a complete mystery as to what it is
representing. Color orange or yellow, and green
(or is that color faded blue?), the jagged lines
representing... what? a political boundary with a
geographical feature overlaid, or vice versa?
I found nothing that matches the jagged lines.

RSBM

In the larger circle there is the red white and green, and yellow from sun rays which match the Kurdistan flag.

*I sure wish I was better at this.

Design of the Kurdistan Flag​

The format of the modern Kurdish flag was designed by Dr. Mehrdad Izady,[2] and comprises of a tricolor background, and a centrally placed sun disk. The colors of the flag, from top to bottom, are red, white and green. The yellow sun disk at the center has 21 rays, equal in size and shape. Both the sun emblem and the number 21 hold religious and cultural importance in the native Kurdish Yazdani religious traditions.[3]

Learn About the Kurdistan Flag | The Kurdish Project

The Kurdish Flag has developed over the years. Learn about the history and variations the Kurdistan Flag.

thekurdishproject.org

 

[fred&edna]

@SanderMeyer

Maybe you could message someone here about the symbol? (I just stumbled upon it because it was in English - easier for me to understand)

https://twitter.com/Komala_english

 

[branmuffin]

Did the deceased have any injuries or scars on his body?

 

[Bit of hope]

To me there are two crossed staves, like seen on the coffin of Tutankhamun (Tutankhamen, King Tut).
Tutankhamun’s canopic coffin | The Past
View attachment 450436

Yes, in the Dutch article from the OP upthread.
View attachment 450437
Edited for alternate spellings of Tutankhamun

To me it's somehow interesting that the eye is blue where I pictured Iranian people with brown eyes. It's my bias. There are Iranian people with blue eyes (although not very common, 7%)

As for light eyes, they are very common, in 30% of the Iranian population: for example, green and hazel and light brown eyes are the most common light eye colors, about 20%, blue perhaps 7%, and gray 2% .

Kurdish man with blue eyes.

 

[Bit of hope]

If the round tattoo is representing a globe with a country or territory in it the point stands out to me. Here is a picture of Iraq. I think it looks like it. There is also the Iraqi part of Kurdistan and the PKK.

 

[Dhighsmith]

It seems you received answers on the tattoo so another possible option, if DNA is available, is to submit the DNA to the genealogical databases. Recently read that genealogical databases used in the US for solving cold cases were added as a resource in the Netherlands.

 

[clorenc]

I can understand how it would be difficult to find a Soviet link.

In the years immediately following the collapse of the Soviet Union, ex Soviet mercenary companies very likely used a variety of different emblems, some "official", some not.

Likewise, ex. Soviet mercenary companies were probably created, went bankrupt, changed names, changed emblems, merged or split apart at a very fast rate.

This is interesting to me: A quick Google search of “Soviet mercenary emblems” shows this, from PMC Wagner Group, which to me looks strikingly similar to the tattoo — a skull with what appears to be a crack in the forehead; prominent, rounded cheekbones; and a set of teeth upturned into a grimace.

BUT the Wagner Group didn’t form until 2014 — seven years after this man died. And it looks like the tattoo might have been old, maybe done quite a few years before 2007.

I wonder where the emblem design originated from. Maybe it was inspired by something? Or maybe this just was/is a pretty common depiction of a skull.

 

[Cryptic]

BUT the Wagner Group didn’t form until 2014 — seven years after this man died. And it looks like the tattoo might have been old, maybe done quite a few years before 2007.

You are right, the Wagner Group, as an individual mercenary company, was not around until 2014.

And.... now the "but"....

Mercenary companies formed quickly after the Union collapsed (1991) as tens of thousands of former Soviet soldiers with experience in elite units found themselves unemployed.

These companies served in many different countries. This article from 2007 shows how reliant the US became on mercenaries as public support for the Iraq war diminished (48,000 mercenaries):

Our Mercenaries in Iraq

A certain number of those 48,000 mercenaries were ex Soviets.

In short (and a gentle correction), you are confusing the most famous Russian mercenary company (Wagner) with being the only ex Soviet mercenary company.

 

[clorenc]

In short (and a gentle correction), you are confusing the most famous Russian mercenary company (Wagner) with being the only ex Soviet mercenary company.

Sorry, I didn’t meant to suggest that I thought they were the only mercenary company — just that searching for mercenaries in general yielded many images of their particular emblem, which struck me as visually similar to the tattoo.

Thank you for your knowledge on the subject; it’s all very fascinating.

It seems they estimated his age to be 25 to 30 years. But his tattoo appears to be decades old — unless it was just very poorly done? If he was 30 when he died, he would have been 14 when the USSR collapsed in 1991.

Do you know if it was common for mercenaries to give these tattoos to each other? It looks very “homemade” — rougher than many prison tattoos. I wonder if he even did it himself. Or if it’s incomplete . . . which could make it harder to identify.

 

[clorenc]

@SanderMeyer , have you tried posting in tattoo forums or visiting tattoo shops in the area? Not that I’d think you’d locate the person who did the tattoo, but maybe someone could offer some clues about its style/technique/age.

 

[chaz]

The green part looks a bit like an aloe vera leaf.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

I enhanced the image slightly and zoomed in, it looks like there is an 'A' in the image on the left

 

[Bogbacal2]

Enhanced and rotated different ways…see so many possibilities!

 

[Bogbacal2]

A Few more!

 

[Vern]

RSBM

In the larger circle there is the red white and green, and yellow from sun rays which match the Kurdistan flag.

*I sure wish I was better at this.

Design of the Kurdistan Flag​

The format of the modern Kurdish flag was designed by Dr. Mehrdad Izady,[2] and comprises of a tricolor background, and a centrally placed sun disk. The colors of the flag, from top to bottom, are red, white and green. The yellow sun disk at the center has 21 rays, equal in size and shape. Both the sun emblem and the number 21 hold religious and cultural importance in the native Kurdish Yazdani religious traditions.[3]

Learn About the Kurdistan Flag | The Kurdish Project

The Kurdish Flag has developed over the years. Learn about the history and variations the Kurdistan Flag.

thekurdishproject.org

I thought this too upon seeing it; with three red Syrian roses in the smaller circle.

When I lived in Damascus, these Syrian roses (the Damascena) were everywhere and on everything. Very symbolic.

 

[Carovb5]

Hello dear sleuths,

I'm Sander, a private detective from Holland. Recently i have been trying to help identify a man who was found in december 2007.
The man hanged himself in the forest, and didn't carry any id. Police never found out who he was...

The victim had a very odd tattoo, and i think it could be the key to his identity. Dutch police thought it had something to do with soviet, but i couldn't find any evidence for that theory. I think the man could be Iranian, and the tattoo could have something to do with Iranian partys, such as Komala. Somebody that knows about that party told me the tattoo could have been made in a training camp for Komala members.
So i guess i'm hoping for people with knowledge about Iranian partys. Have you ever seen this kind of tattoo? What are your thoughts? The tattoo was placed on the right inner leg.
The emblems next to the pic of the tattoo are that of Iranian party Komala. Please help me identify the person. Be aware, the other pic is him when already dead. You can read more about the case here. -Its in Dutch but you can translate-

View attachment 449805View attachment 449806View attachment 449807

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I came across this artwork online and it stood out for me because:
- the symbol on the artworks chest: the yellow is exactly the same shape as the red shape in your john doe’s upper half of his tattoo.
- the thing sticking out of his turban made me think of the thing sticking out/going across the round shaped upper half of the tattoo (dagger or something)

Could it be a bad try to tattoo a turban with the daggerlike object + referencing whatever the artwork has on its chest in the turban? And then a skull underneath?

The artwork/artist mentions Taliban.

 

[Cryptic]

Thank you for your knowledge on the subject; it’s all very fascinating.

It seems they estimated his age to be 25 to 30 years. But his tattoo appears to be decades old — unless it was just very poorly done? If he was 30 when he died, he would have been 14 when the USSR collapsed in 1991.

Do you know if it was common for mercenaries to give these tattoos to each other? It looks very “homemade” — rougher than many prison tattoos. I wonder if he even did it himself. Or if it’s incomplete . . . which could make it harder to identify.

Mercenaries or peonies...

I think you could well be correct in noting that the math is not adding up easily in regards to ex Soviet mercenaries:

- As you noted, he was 14 when the USSR broke up 1991/92. Thus.... too young for immediate employment as a uhmm.... "security specialist" in the immediate aftermath of the break up.

- By say, 2003, the war in Iraq was requiring large numbers of mercenaries. But.... when hiring mercenaries, the US had a strong preference for people with service in elite military units- and was also able to pay top dollar.

- 2003, He would have been 22. And thus old enough- at least in theory, to have served in a post Soviet Russian, Ukrainian, Azeri, Uzbek, Kazakh etc elite military unit. But.... with Uncle Sam paying very generous wages for select mercenaries- why the, as you noted, homemade tattoo?

- As he grows older, he could have joined various mercenary companies in Africa, Middle East etc. But African and Middle Eastern employers also have the same elite unit / pilot specialist preference- just in smaller numbers. Though I doubt they pay as much as the US, they still need to offer sufficiently attractive wages. So.... why the homemade tattoo?

 

[RickshawFan]

My point about pomegranates ^^^^ , from an NIH article:

The heavenly paradise of the Koran describes four gardens with shade, springs, and fruits—including the pomegranate. Legend holds that each pomegranate contains one seed that has come down from paradise.5 Pomegranates have had a special role as a fertility symbol in weddings among the Bedouins of the Middle East.14 A fine specimen is secured and split open by the groom as he and his bride open the flap of their tent or enter the door of their house. Abundant seeds ensure that the couple who eat it will have many children.

Why a pomegranate?

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

IME pomegranate representations always have this "flavor", no matter the culture, but we are also looking at ME culture in this case.

I'm sticking with the tattoo being a group symbol for "rape and pillage".

Note: the fact that an open pomegranate can look like a skull, well, that's art: an icon can have many meanings simultaneously.

 

[fred&edna]

Over the last couple of days, I've been perusing images of badges and symbols for political parties, military units, and I've even been looking at the tattoos of Middle Eastern sports and MMA fighters. I've realized I don't know enough about the political or ideological views of the various parties... PKK, PUK, KDP, etc, nor do I know when many would have traveled for training in The Netherlands during the +/-2007 time period.

Some things I've noted.
If one sees an "A" could it represent Azadi (freedom)
Some Daesh hunters emblems have skulls
I've seen some banners for the Komala of the Toilers of Kurdistan with a tree symbol, so instead of a sword could the green pointed part of the tatt be representative of a tree?

Until I can find something that will help narrow my searches, I'm obviously all over the place.