Hotel Cecil Rooftop K-9 Search

[fred&edna]

I realize this is not the same scenario as the Lam case but... this mentions search dogs alerting to a water tank.

In 2009 search dogs were used to try to find the missing Jamison family on Panola Mountain in Oklahoma. They used both cadaver dogs and air-scent dogs, but do not say which dogs "hit" on the water tank. Also, no one was found in the tank, in fact, the family has never been found.

It makes me wonder if the Jamison bodies were placed in the tank initially and later moved or.. did something else happen?

The part about the search dogs starts at approx 20:35.

http://peace4missing.ning.com/video/disappeared-full-episode-3

 

[noodled1]

I think in the end we have to remind ourselves that they are dogs, and far from perfect just like us humans. Besides a litany of environmental things that could throw a dog off they're not always going to hit paydirt because they are dogs afterall.

btw everyone, here's an article on scent dogs, fairly in-depth report worth the time

http://www.uspcak9.com/training/scent.pdf

 

[fred&edna]

I like this one (scent & air flow) ... it has pictures :applause:

http://houndandthefound.wordpress.com/2012/02/22/how-scent-and-airflow-works/

 

[Conductor71]

With all due respect, it sounds like the issue is not a dog's performance but more an issue of human oversight? Our expert here is saying that most likely they needed an air-scent or human remains trained dog.

So I think it very likely that LE brought a tracking or trailing K9 to the roof.
If that's the case- it's not something LE did wrong, just something that maybe could have been augmented by utilizing a dog trained in a different discipline.

And...

If my dog didn't pick up her scent anywhere beyond her hotel room, I would have swapped dogs and brought in an HRD dog. Then I would have worked the HRD dog through the entire hotel (including parking garage and vehicles parked outside) and all entrances and exits- so that would include the roof.

5 days later, and with a properly trained HRD dog- yes they would absolutely be able to alert to the water tank.

HTH?

I think the LAPD officer on CCTV makes Oriah's scenario likely when he says that a dog would not detect EL's remains if the lid was on the tank. Still does explain not tracking her from the hotel to the roof. Just thinking if her scent had diminished that much in five days and people were on roof after her disappearance...were the roof and her room ever treated as crime scenes?

 

[Oriah]

I think in the end we have to remind ourselves that they are dogs, and far from perfect just like us humans. Besides a litany of environmental things that could throw a dog off they're not always going to hit paydirt because they are dogs afterall.

btw everyone, here's an article on scent dogs, fairly in-depth report worth the time

http://www.uspcak9.com/training/scent.pdf

They are dogs... and they almost always have a very specific skill set that is related to scent and hearing. Training and handling working dogs is essentially honing in on those characteristics that already come naturally to them. Ground scent, like a trailing K9- vs airscent- vs HR scent. Sometimes all combined, and sometimes very contaminated crime scenes for a working dog. Scent all over the place, sounds they may have been proofed off of but still alert to when confused by a scent/sound issue.

I am wondering if this may have been the issue with Elisa's case. Electrical issues such as generators (smell and sound, possibly steam?) may have played a part in the dog(s) lack of alert, or maybe just distraction?

 

[December]

It seems even if Elisa was taken into a room the police couldn't search that the dogs would go to that door. If a couple of dogs are outside a door wanting to follow the scent inside, it seems like that would be probable cause to get a warrant for that room. Wouldn't it?