IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #6

[sreshowtime]

(no camping RoseRed, but thanks- now I know what this Fl house needs! perfect for the garden!)

 

[TGIRecovered]

Because a kidnapper couldn't risk being out in the open, slowly moving across the lake with 2 girls. I can't think of anything MORE visible than being in the middle of a body of water, surrounded by houses and people fishing, running, biking. He would have literally been a sitting duck. If the parents had shown up, they could have had the police there to arrest him before he even reached the shore.

That would also be a good reason to question whether there really was a paddle boat there that afternoon at all. LE could be making the public plea because they do not believe someone else's claim that there was a paddle boat there. Put it out there and if no one comes forward that puts pressure on the person who made the claim to come up with a different story.

Don't forget, we still don't know where this lead came from or if paddle boater and 2:30 sighting man are the same or not. What a mess!ullhair:

MOO

 

[Mjskit]

I can see at least two paddle boats in bing maps. One up in the canal part of the lake and one yellow one on the eastern edge of the lake.

Could you be so kind to give me a link?

 

[RoseRed]

(no camping RoseRed, but thanks- now I know what this Fl house needs! perfect for the garden!)

Absolutely, perfect, but you should try camping as it is very relaxing. Can you tell I am trying to find some safe camping buddies?

 

[Sunlight]

Re: Elizabeth going with Lyric

Brings to mind the love you message to her Dad that she left before they disappeared and that was only discovered a couple days ago. (I have strongly considered that they may have run away). No one knows yet.

 

[JaimeInLA]

i agree, but the only reason i find hard to believe is that if this person actually saw the girls he would have seen them much later than what would fit the "time line" which isnt set in stone but it just doesnt fit right imo... kwim? im so confused with all of the statements and times that almost means that some of these things would almost be occurring simultaneously to make it all fit together - or maybe i just need sleep...lol

I also can't make Aunt Tammy's witness work in my brain for 2 reasons:

1) He has the girls casually riding around the lake at 2:30. I thought the family showed up there at 3pm. That gives the kidnapper half an hour. Possible, but too small of a window, IMO.

2) By 2:30, the girls would have been TOTALLY panicked about being so late. They had a clock on the cell phone. They knew they were supposed to be home at least an hour before then. I can't see them just happily cruising around the lake an hour after they were supposed to be home.

 

[MotherOcean]

A paddleboat would make a lousy get away vehicle but an ideal look-out "car".

 

[Mjskit]

I'm wondering if the person with the paddleboat and the man who told Aunt Tammy that he saw the girls at 2:30 could be the same person. Maybe that lead came from her.

If it is the same man and he is not coming forward, I would be skeptical about whether he really did see the girls at 2:30. Could it be possible that Aunt Tammy actually ran in to the kidnapper at the lake after the girls were taken but before the bikes were discovered?

Other witnesses such as the "watering his plants" man have spoken out publicly thru the news media but I don't recall seeing any interviews with the guy Tammy talked to at the lake!
:moo:

If that were true then Tammy could have told LE what he looked like. I am sure (I hope) LE checked him out. Besides he said he saw the at 2:30 and LE is asking for info until 1. Right?

 

[Squeeze]

In the interview with MIL of MM (Lyric's grandma and DM's mother), grandma says her son DM and 16yo grandson both live with her so I can only assume that the brother is DM's son for sure. Not sure if he is MM's son?

Do we know if DM is Lyric's biological father? Seems a little odd that h
er last name is her mothers maiden name, considering the DM and MM are marred.

the other sister, Tammy confirmed that Dam is lyrics biological father. I think iut was on JVM.

 

[nikb]

OK thank you! This is what I thought and what I was picturing, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't some regional difference in terminology. <snipped>

Yeah I'm quoting myself again..

I got behind but thanks to all of you who provided insight into what "paddle boat" means to you! I thanked the person wanting the Flamingo boat but thanks to everyone. I'd thank you all individually but I'd end up adding another page to the discussion.

It seems we're mostly in agreement on what a paddle boat is but still a clarification by LE might be helpful. My line of thinking is if I was out in a kayak or canoe I might think to myself... "well I was in a kayak that day but I never saw a paddle boat." Probably a bit out there but I feel like it's worth thinking about. Might be a reason the person hasn't come forward? I can see why the fear of coming forward given the scrutiny they'll be put under but I can also see legit reasons the person might not even know they were the person everyone's looking for.

 

[RoseRed]

If that were true then Tammy could have told LE what he looked like. I am sure (I hope) LE checked him out. Besides he said he saw the at 2:30 and LE is asking for info until 1. Right?

I thought they were looking until 3:00 pm!

 

[Sunlight]

Maybe he told Tammy or she saw he had a paddleboat and saw them from it...now they can't find him. Maybe he is away and not paying attention to the media stuff. It would definitely help to confirm the timeline for LE if they could speak with him. We don't know if he is one and the same though. If it is an earlier timeframe they are trying to confirm, it could be related to the biker witness..to corroborate his times...oh wait....Chief doesn't know who he is....cough...Just a thought. Moo

 

[nervous_nellie]

I also can't make Aunt Tammy's witness work in my brain for 2 reasons:

1) He has the girls casually riding around the lake at 2:30. I thought the family showed up there at 3pm. That gives the kidnapper half an hour. Possible, but too small of a window, IMO.

2) By 2:30, the girls would have been TOTALLY panicked about being so late. They had a clock on the cell phone. They knew they were supposed to be home at least an hour before then. I can't see them just happily cruising around the lake an hour after they were supposed to be home.

but if gramma had been out looking for them according to the transcript upthread, and then she told the mm and hc to go find their own children? that doesnt sound like gramma was worried that anything bad had happened, kwim? just that she had to go because she had to attend to other things...

eta: this sounds more normal to me ... i dont think it would be normal to suspect anything like them being abducted just because they were late...i have a hard time believing that gramma would leave if she thought the kids had been abducted...

 

[Pippi]

According to Aunt Tammy, she was asking random strangers if they had seen "two girls on bikes". It doesn't sound like she had pictures of THESE girls and we know they didn't have a clothing description yet so maybe this 2:30 witness saw two completely different girls. That doesn't seem hard to believe on a nice, summer day (and the "girls" he saw may have been teens.)

JMO

 

[liz b.]

I am wondering if she might have had some secret plans to run away with the 'help' of a family friend. And maybe she did not plan for Elizabeth to be involved, she just rode off with her so grandma would not be concerned. But once she got to where she was meeting her 'friend', then things went sideways.

Very plausible scenario...MOO

 

[SapphireSteel]

Ok I'm really confused now.

LE believe there is a peddle boat guy.

Why would there be? Think about it...those things are painful with only one person...they are really a two person deal. IF it's a pedal boat not a canoe. If there's only one person in it, it's going round in circles.

So...maybe someone's lying about a pedal boat guy? Why would they? Obvious answer...to shift focus.

I too wondered about a 10 year old forgetting her cell phone. It happens, especially if she's riding around and can't be bothered with it. HOWEVER...if she was on a mission to meet a secret "friend" and that friend instructed her to leave it at home, that would change the scenario again.

To summarise -

LE want to speak to pedal/paddle boat guy
Who actually saw pedal/paddle boat guy?
Do they want to speak to him AS a witness, or to BREAK a suspect's story?

I'm leaning that there was NO pedal/paddle boat guy. Who would do something like that on their own anyway? Unless you're in training for something, it's not likely something you'd do on your own IMO.

This is getting really, really, mysterious.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Yeah I'm quoting myself again..

I got behind but thanks to all of you who provided insight into what "paddle boat" means to you! I thanked the person wanting the Flamingo boat but thanks to everyone. I'd thank you all individually but I'd end up adding another page to the discussion.

It seems we're mostly in agreement on what a paddle boat is but still a clarification by LE might be helpful. My line of thinking is if I was out in a kayak or canoe I might think to myself... "well I was in a kayak that day but I never saw a paddle boat." Probably a bit out there but I feel like it's worth thinking about. Might be a reason the person hasn't come forward? I can see why the fear of coming forward given the scrutiny they'll be put under but I can also see legit reasons the person might not even know they were the person everyone's looking for.

I want that freakn flamingo boat. It's MINE!

 

[SacreBleu]

So curious to know the cousins' relationship. Did they spend a lot of time together? Was Lyric the leader? Would Elizabeth do anything Lyric said? IF they were still running free, even at 2:00, would not one or the other of them been chomping at the bit to get back to Grandma"s, knowing that there would be a price to pay for being so late? It just seems that if this is not a "run away" situation, something went amiss much, much before 2:00.

 

[SapphireSteel]

BBM
That made me LOL! I have spent way too much time today thinking about Gamerbinger!

I swear, if you were writing a book about the mysterious abduction of two Iowa girls, Ted Gamerbinger would be the NATURAL choice for what you'd call an eyewitness.

Wouldn't it?

 

[nervous_nellie]

Ok I'm really confused now.

LE believe there is a peddle boat guy.

Why would there be? Think about it...those things are painful with only one person...they are really a two person deal. IF it's a pedal boat not a canoe. If there's only one person in it, it's going round in circles.

So...maybe someone's lying about a pedal boat guy? Why would they? Obvious answer...to shift focus.

I too wondered about a 10 year old forgetting her cell phone. It happens, especially if she's riding around and can't be bothered with it. HOWEVER...if she was on a mission to meet a secret "friend" and that friend instructed her to leave it at home, that would change the scenario again.

To summarise -

LE want to speak to pedal/paddle boat guy
Who actually saw pedal/paddle boat guy?
Do they want to speak to him AS a witness, or to BREAK a suspect's story?

I'm leaning that there was NO pedal/paddle boat guy. Who would do something like that on their own anyway? Unless you're in training for something, it's not likely something you'd do on your own IMO.

This is getting really, really, mysterious.

lol - yes, this is exactly what i have been thinking for the since yesterdays presser... they are trying to disprove someones statement...or who was NOT at the lake...

they have said everthing except coming right out and saying that is the info they are asking for...imo