IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 - What if no ring / No conspiracy?

[cappuccina]

...such a thorough analysis...wow! The problem we have here, (and folks who've been here a lot longer than me, please correct me if I misstate anything...) is that the photos are supposedly in the possession of Noreen Gosch, who, as you can see from these discussions is evasive at best, immersed in her world of conspiracy theories, and not even open to basic questions that other in similar situations like Marc Klass or Patty Wetterling, would have gladly answered, including the quesitons you've brought up here.

Now, since you are an expert in this field, she might talk to you, especially given the level of detail you have found. I think if you were to approach her "clinically" - meaning like you provuided the information for us here, she might be open to talking to you, and answering the questions you have. I hope she is because you can provide an expert analysis that the rest of us cannot.

Frankly, if it were me, I would want all of the help, advice, opinions I could get because it is often the "one little clue" or observation that solves a previously cold criminal case. What really, really puzzles me is that her reaction seems to be the exact opposite. She retreats and lashes out at thos trying to help...I just don't get it... (Actually, I do get it...the "closure" that will be brought to her is news that her son is no longer alive, and she cannot hear it...)

Now I don't know where you live, but the Des Moines PD/LE folks who are assigned to this cold case might want to hear from you also...

 

[kcksum]

to be aired on here. I am telling you people this lady is plain nuts. I wonder if Noreen actually believes everything this lady believes? Here is a sort of press release from Holms talking about sinister forces having a web site taken down that discussed how special ops forces and the Bush administration were reponsible for the death of Polly Klaas. Someone should alert Mark that this nut bag Noreen has associated herself with is saying these things about his daughters case. Especially the part about Richard Allen Davis not being guilty of the crime. Here's the press release i didn't paste the whole article because its just more of the same thing.

The Bush Gestapo just this past day had the following Web page taken down so take a look at what your Bush Cheney Organized Crime Operation is doing for you but be reminded that this Web page clearly exposed the Satanist Bohemia Grove and it's CIA global crime operation being fully responsible for the ritualistic rape, torture and murder of Polly Klass (and the tens of thousands of children every year who are ritualistically raped, tortured, and murdered by this Elitist Mens Club members in the connecting deep underground cavern system that is accessible from only the Bohemia Grove facility located in Monte Roya California) at the Bohemia Grove and that her so called murderer Richard Allan Davis who in fact didn't actually murder Polly Klass but merely with the assistance of the Petaluma Police Department had her taken their tied and bound through CIA Wackenhut Security and that Richard Allen Davis was in fact a payroll CIA Finder and only escorted Polly Klass there to be later ritualistically raped and murdered. Your tax dollars hard a work not going after the real terrorists in the Washington District of Criminals.
The Bohemian Grove and the Murder of Polly Klaas July 13,2001


There is also another blip on the page talking about how Patricia Johnson Holms is "homeless" because the entire corrupt washington state loaw enforcement comunity have managed to halp certain evil people take all of her estate and wealth. Maybe Holms expects some financial gain from all of this.

 

[2sisters]

I will say it again, where do these 2 get off involving the Klass family in this. Marc Klass has been through enough already. to make this bizzare story up is just beyond me. IMO, Noreens website needs to be shut down. Her and Patricia Holmes are not child advocates, just an alien who thinks the governemnt caused hurricane katrina and a woman who have gone off the deep end. I am deeply sorry for the loss of noreen's son but enough already.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Something just dawned on me this morning (sorry, sometimes the ol' brain doesn't work as well as it should):

If Johnny visited Noreen as an adult, why is she still investigating this as if he is "missing"? She should be concentrating on locating her son as an adult, not chasing ghosts from 20 years ago.

 

[2sisters]

Something just dawned on me this morning (sorry, sometimes the ol' brain doesn't work as well as it should):

If Johnny visited Noreen as an adult, why is she still investigating this as if he is "missing"? She should be concentrating on locating her son as an adult, not chasing ghosts from 20 years ago.

hmm, good point.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

Find Johnny today, and he can "prove" the truth of the conspiracy. The lid would be blown off with unassailable evidence. However, if you spend your time looking for a missing child who doesn't exist today, you can stretch this investigation out forever...

 

[MaryLiz]

I will say it again, where do these 2 get off involving the Klass family in this. Marc Klass has been through enough already. to make this bizzare story up is just beyond me. IMO, Noreens website needs to be shut down. Her and Patricia Holmes are not child advocates, just an alien who thinks the governemnt caused hurricane katrina and a woman who have gone off the deep end. I am deeply sorry for the loss of noreen's son but enough already.

I don't want to get off the Johnny Gosch subject here but speaking of what Marc Klaas has been through...remember he was just brought up in the whole John Mark Karr/JonBenet thing where Karr had a fascination with Polly Klaas too, even moving to Petaluma and then started corresponding with Richard Davis in prison I think....so not only does he have to go through what he did when Polly was murdered but he has to relive it through idiots like Karr and Patricia Holmes.

 

[kcksum]

I don't want to get off the Johnny Gosch subject here but speaking of what Marc Klaas has been through...remember he was just brought up in the whole John Mark Karr/JonBenet thing where Karr had a fascination with Polly Klaas too, even moving to Petaluma and then started corresponding with Richard Davis in prison I think....so not only does he have to go through what he did when Polly was murdered but he has to relive it through idiots like Karr and Patricia Holmes.

I couldn't agree more. This woman is basically calling the cold blooded murderer of his daughter a "hired hand" and saying he didn't kill her. She wants to blame the Busch administration and some hokey pokey conspiracy involving underground tunnels and Bohemia Grove. Richard Allen Davis confessed and is evil. To say he isn't responsible is a smack in Mark Klaas's face. I dare Noreen to send this new developement to Greta or someone in the mainstream media, Mark and Greta will eat her phony baloney mother of missing boy story to pieces and tear her to shreds.Shame on Noreen Gosch for even allowing herself to be affiliated with this woman who disgraces the victims with her outlandish tales.:furious: :furious: :furious: :furious: :furious: :furious: :furious: :furious: :furious: :furious: :furious:

 

[docwho3]

Find Johnny today, and he can "prove" the truth of the conspiracy. The lid would be blown off with unassailable evidence. However, if you spend your time looking for a missing child who doesn't exist today, you can stretch this investigation out forever...

Exactly! And If you say he came back as an adult and then left back into hiding as an adult that makes him an adult runaway and as such you might believe that you have removed any reason for L.E. to continue looking for him as adult runaways have the right to go missing voluntarily so you can then say L.E. are not doing their job while you continue to appear to be looking . . . .forever looking.

Scratching chin and doing some "iffin'. . . . .
And iiiiiifff you are a suspect in your sons disappearance and iiiiiifff you know he is dead and iiiiiifff you had something to do with your sons disappearance you might want to approach things just that way once enough years had passed for for him to have been an adult had he lived.

I know thats an awful lot of iffin going on but unril some evidence comes along to bump her off the list of suspects I feel that I have to look at what she has done from the "why would a suspect be doing that?" angle.

I realize she could also just be someone in dire need of some mental health help and I suppose there might be reasons that I know nothing about to explain her behavior but I don't believe I would give much weight to end time aliens as a possibility.

 

[docwho3]

. . .There is no need to edit your early posts or talk negativly about yourself for not sleuthing this IP info earlier. As when I posted the forum entries originally, I did not know exctly what they meant except they appeared suspicious to me. I hoped people would look further into them and either validate them or debunk them. That is exactly what we are all here to do. Sleuthing is not a lateral road. We need to bring evidence, discuss it, explore it, challenge it and see where it takes us. By editing posts to fit the progression your rewriting history which later on could prove valuable. Never aplogize for challenging and learning as we go forward in trying to find out what Happened to Johnny . What you are apologizing for is exactly what we are all here to do SLEUTH!!! I still believe these Women are running in the same circles and I find that a coincidence that I can not buy into.

mjak

Thank you for the kind response. I guess my overlooking the IP addys listed in the posts bothered me more because it is something to do with computers and that is an area where I have quite a bit of education (networking courses, cabling, various programming languages, html webpage design, computer repair & upgrade, business apps and so forth. And then a couple years of electronics which often involved programming comps and controllers.) What I did was overlook something very simple because I was a bit lazy, possibly made worse due to having that nasty cough and congestion thats been running rampant in my local area. I feel as if someone has been beating my ribs too. -lol . . .ouch.

The posts you brought to our attention looked similar to what I would expect posts and responses on a forum to look like at first glance so I didn't look deeper as I should have done. Good thing others on this forum, like Insguru, aren't as lazy as I was.

I think I will be a bit more lazy and not try to verify the IP addys listed for now beyond seeing that those in the posts appear to be the same and that casts enough doubt on the posts for me to not use them as evidence in posts here. Since I did not see the post by the lady I can't say whether it to had the same IP listed as the gosch and gannon post. However it is important to note that the IP addy shown could easily have been faked on that web page so beyond noting that they appear to be similar one cannot draw to many conclusions from the numbers.

 

[JusticeForAll]

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/browse_thread/thread/58af2f3149c461df/2eced690c9e88841?lnk=st&q=white+magnolia+picks+large+ones&rnum=10&hl=en

 

[JusticeForAll]

Accidently hit submit button before I was done typing. Apparently Patricia Johnson-Holm suspected her husband as being the Green River Killer.

 

[2sisters]

There are some new pictures up on Noreen's website.

 

[LillyRush]

I found this doing a quick web search but there may be more info available in a news archive somewhere:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,213507,00.html
Same quote at
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06256/721200-84.stm

I do think it's a little strange that there doesn't seem to much more out there from the father's side of it, or even the siblings for that matter. It could be as someone else mentioned, sort of embarassment...cringing back from the hysteria that they perceive Noreen as causing. But, I'm also wondering - as far as the father goes, could it just be a guy thing? A silent, tough, don't express your pain thing? I know that everyone is talking about how other families react, but really a lot of times it is the mother who does the most talking even when adult children go missing.

Twenty years from now if someone were to pull up archives of the Laci Peterson case they would probably notice that Sharon Rocha did a lot more talking than Dennis. So, I mean, really in the larger scheme of things..how can we interpret that same type of situation here? How can we tell when it means something different? There are no press conferences we can look back on to see how Johnny Gosch's father was physically reacting to the situation. As you said, there's not much to go on and from my observations the men/fathers generally talk less. There have been exceptions to that, notably in my mind John Walsh, Mark Klaas and Ed Smart among a select few.

I know I'm posting to an older topic, but I just found this thread now. lol :angel:

 

[LillyRush]

I just searched the local newspaper on-line (The Enterprise) for Lynnwood, WA, where David Leonard Johnson supposedly disappeared from on 4/1/85. Of course, I got no hits when I ran the name. The archives only go back to 2002. The local library has the older archives. Does anyone live near Lynnwood that can look this up?

I think that this Holms woman is snowing Noreen. Why, I don't know, but if she is connected to the guy pushing the Gannon theory that could be the reason. The son's name isn't showing up anywhere and she seems to be changing her locations. Longview, WA and Lynnwood, WA are not even really near each other and the only one of them that's close to Seattle is Lynnwood (about 20-30 miles North). Plus, this alien stuff is just way out there.

 

[docwho3]

I do think it's a little strange that there doesn't seem to much more out there from the father's side of it, or even the siblings for that matter. It could be as someone else mentioned, sort of embarassment...cringing back from the hysteria that they perceive Noreen as causing. But, I'm also wondering - as far as the father goes, could it just be a guy thing? A silent, tough, don't express your pain thing? I know that everyone is talking about how other families react, but really a lot of times it is the mother who does the most talking even when adult children go missing. . . .

First: Welcome to the thread. Glad to see you here.

Note: I added the bolding to comment on the that part.
You may well be correct . . . . or you may not, but it is certainly worth keeping the possibility in mind. My complaint about the general lack of MSM (Main Stream Media ) case info still stands though (not that you appeared to disagree with that- its just my constant pet peeve about this case.) I sure wish we had better and more numerous news story articles to read about the case (as opposed to noreens website which I feel is untrustworthy). . . . .or better yet, some peeks at the police files about the case.

. . .Twenty years from now if someone were to pull up archives of the Laci Peterson case they would probably notice that Sharon Rocha did a lot more talking than Dennis. So, I mean, really in the larger scheme of things..how can we interpret that same type of situation here? . . .

We may not be able to accurately interpret the rest of the family's seeming silence about the gosch case but I still ask the question of why they are so silent about it. Not saying much is not the same as not saying anything at all. That just seems odd to me. However I admit that it may not mean anything bad at all. Maybe it means news stories about what he may have said were not archived and so were lost. . . it just raises questions in me and perhaps in others. I very much wish we had more info from reliable sources.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

I think that this Holms woman is snowing Noreen. Why, I don't know, but if she is connected to the guy pushing the Gannon theory that could be the reason. The son's name isn't showing up anywhere and she seems to be changing her locations. Longview, WA and Lynnwood, WA are not even really near each other and the only one of them that's close to Seattle is Lynnwood (about 20-30 miles North). Plus, this alien stuff is just way out there.

There is no record of her son being abducted in the media, law enforcement or any of the missing children databases. This is because her son was only missing for a couple hours (if you want to believe even this part of her tall tale) before he was returned. She claims that this boy that she received was not David, but a identical twin that was stolen from her at birth (insert the sound of a cuckoo bird here). David is alive and well, living in Washington state. He, understandably, does not have contact with his mother. No one except for a few of the koolaid drinkers in the Franklin Coverup crowd believe that she is telling the truth (most of the believers in the conspiracy also recognize that she is a crackpot).

I have made it one of my missions in life to confront this lunatic on her forum until she recants her claims of David being one of the boys in the infamous three boy picture and publically apologizes to Noreen for deceiving her. Holm is so crazy that this may never occur, no matter how much evidence is presented.

 

[Mr. E]

I think that this Holms woman is snowing Noreen. Why, I don't know, but if she is connected to the guy pushing the Gannon theory that could be the reason. The son's name isn't showing up anywhere and she seems to be changing her locations. Longview, WA and Lynnwood, WA are not even really near each other and the only one of them that's close to Seattle is Lynnwood (about 20-30 miles North). Plus, this alien stuff is just way out there.

Holmes is a nutjob. She has serious mental issues, and it is a shame that Noreen's involvement with her has discredited her (Noreen). I don't take anything Holmes says seriously, and because of her I tend to question Noreen's ideas and judgements a little more harshly.

 

[docwho3]

Bumping for finding a true solution.

 

[AmandaBrown23]

I know her stories seem crazy and they may be, but I feel really sorry for her. I would probably wanna find any reason I could to believe my child was still alive too. I hope she gets some resolution.