IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, W Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 - What happened? - #1

[VespaElf]

If he was brainwashed how would he remember anything or think it was ok just to visit that one time none of this is making anything sense so I just dont buy it!

Again "Miles":IS NCMEC INVOLVED ? WHAT EXACTLY HAS BEEN THE FBI'S INVOLVEMENT?

 

[miles_draken]

I am not sure of the FBI involvement, I do know there was a confrontation between Johnnys mother and an agent in her home. Johnny gave her names to aide in arrests. When his mother went to the police to try and get protective custody for him, Witness Protection, in turn for his testimony, the police were non committal. Remember, the police chief at the time of his dissapearance was discovered later to be involved with people suspected in his kidnapping. I'm continuing to explore these different issues you bring up here, I do have a job though and can't committ full time, I'd appreciate any help in investigating the different aspects of this case. I really don't have any info from the Law Enforcement side of this case, I can't seem to locate any. Again, any help in answering these questions would be greatly appreciated. THanks!

 

[emma l]

Guys,

You can go to www.johnnygosch.com and read a whole chapter on-line, for free, of the book Johnnys mother wrote "Why can't Johnny come home", its a very interesting read and should help you make up your mind!

Theres also some interesting pictures at the end of the sample chapter including a poster that Johnnys mother and others in her town were sent anonymously with the police composite sketch and a picture of the man Noreen claims is partly responsible side-by-side. The anonymous sender has drawn an arrow between the 2 photos..........

Personally, I don't know what to think. I very much doubt his mothers story but I do feel incredibly sorry for her, it just seems so far-fetched. But on the other hand, maybe thats exactly the reason why these people have got away with it for so long.

Very weird. It would be great to think Johnny was still alive though.............

I would LOVE to investigate this case a bit further but wouldn't have a clue where to start. All the information on-line is stuff provided by Johnnys mother. We'd need independent witness accounts. Any ideas?

 

[lisag]

Guys,

You can go to www.johnnygosch.com and read a whole chapter on-line, for free, of the book Johnnys mother wrote "Why can't Johnny come home", its a very interesting read and should help you make up your mind!

I did read that - its all what his mother says - I need more than just what she says... After reading that and hearing what I have heard, I still dont buy it. I cant believe that there is not one officer and not one FBI agent willing to help this woman out. Maybe at the time, she was having trouble, but not now. If she went to them and said he needed protection, I cant imagine that they would be "non commital".

 

[blaster]

His ID and story were verified.

http://http://www.americanfreepress.net/RFA_Articles/Kidnapping_Case_Implicates_Top/kidnapping_case_implicates_top.html

http://http://www.donnachapel.com/johnny_gosch.html

This pains me that too many people are willing to write this story off. What bothers me more is that if a child has been gone too long the LE's write them off for dead. I feel this is the wrong thing to do. We should never stop looking, ever. Some of these kids could be hiding out homeless somewhere trying to stay off the "grid".........It's very sad these kids need someone to stand up for them not refuse them help and invalidate their experience. If I had to I would put myself in danger to bring them home but, not without a little back-up of course. I'm in the process of getting some of my own documents together and thinking about making my story public.....(cult related) In fact, I just got verification that there are some documents but, I have to verify my ID before they can send them. So, within a few weeks I'll be going cross country to get most of these together and get them out so stay tuned I promise this will be interesting. But, I have a reason to feel the way I do. I think if anyone pops up you have to give them the benefit of the doubt and listen, then point them in the right direction. Don't shoot them down, help them as much as possible if they are lying that will come out in the long run if not you'll be hero's. LE's and NCMEC do investigate this stuff they just won't talk about it so they won't blow any leads.......dodging bullets is tough work. These kids really need someone to stand up for them because they are broken. Please give them the chance they diserve.....I may be putting my life on the line very soon but, there are things people need to know and I hope I have the attention of all here and elsewhere....I promise I have a really interesting story to tell and I need some open minds.
:truce:

 

[miles_draken]

The links above didn't work for me, i'd be very interested in reading what was there. There are too many kids dissapearing in this country, there is in fact organized white slavery of children, and too discredit them is to lend a helping hand to those who would take them. Remember, the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist in the first place.

 

[blueclouds]

CNN NEWS
The day my God died and on and on........yahoo has 469,000 refs. of child sex slavery. But, none of this really happens and children don't really go missing they just get a little misplaced that's all. :liar:

Blaster I truly hope you're not the one in same RE: chapman. The head people here can check your isp addy's. Please don't cause heartaches. No one is saying that it doesn't happen or hasn't happened; but offering up no other concrete proof; how can anyone believe that Noreen truly saw her son. She so badly wanted it to be him and it was the middle of the night.

Don't cause trouble here. You can discuss things and offer opinions without slamming others.

 

[miles_draken]

I think this is a great forum for discussing these cases, not arguing. I agree that people get pretty upset when their opinions are attacked. My belief is that this forum is used to bounce theories back and forth amoungst users, some of us are seasoned investigators, others are novices. We can all work together and maybe come up with some things that nobody else thought of. I enjoy hearing from all of you regarding this case of Johnny Gosch. If I seem a bit passionate in defense of his mothers beliefs I apologize. This case has haunted me most of my life, and her side is really all I've been able to find. I would love to know LE's side or the FBI's for that matter. If anyone has any information regarding this case from any angle I'd love to read about it. THanks so much guys for contributing to this thread, I enjoy hearing from all of you!

 

[blaster]

Who's chapman?
the links didn't work for me when I tried them so I'll repost them here.......It's not slamming when you know the truth and want people to see.
Donna Chapel
free press
I'm just a simple fisherman blessed with many friends.
here's a few more.
Indy media
Franklin cover-up
more Franklin cover-up
This stuff was all over the news last year.

 

[VespaElf]

Blaster I truly hope you're not the one in same RE: chapman.

I was thinking about "boy exploited" and that whole fiasco too!!!

 

[tybee204]

One in the same. he is gone.
tybee

 

[Richard]

A very closely matching crime to the Johnny Gosch kidnapping is that if the abduction of Eugene Martin, also a newsboy, also of Des Moines, Iowa. Eugene was on his paper route early in the morning of 12 August 1984. He was seen talking to a white male who was "about the age of his father". There was nothing suspicious about it, but in a matter of twenty minutes, Eugene disappeared and has not been seen since.
Usually, Gene delivered the papers with his older stepbrother, but on this occasion, he was alone.
Eugene got up that morning at 4:30 and left the house at 5:00. Between 5:45 and 6:05, he was seen folding papers and talking to a man on teh corner only a few blocks from his house. Between 6:10 and 6:15, the bag was on the ground with 10 folded papers in it and Eugene was gone. When calls came in to the paper manager that people were missing their morning newspapers, the manager went out, found the bag and delivered the papers. He did not start looking for Eugene again until 8:40AM. Classic case of someone finding something obviously wrong, but not thinking it was important enough to mention.
Some investigators feel that the two cases (Gosch and Martin) are connected, but there is no physical evidence to link the two.

------------------
EUGENE MARTIN
Non-Family Abduction
DOB: Aug 17, 1970
Missing: Aug 12, 1984
Age at time missing: 14
Age Now: 34
Sex: Male
Race: White
Hair: Brown
Eyes: Brown
Height: 5'0" (152 cm)
Weight: 110 lbs (50 kg)
Missing From: DES MOINES, IA, United States

Eugene was last seen between 5:30-6 a.m. as he was delivering newspapers. A paper bag was found outside of Des Moines with papers still inside. He has a scar on his right knee and has had a broken right wrist.

ANYONE HAVING INFORMATION SHOULD CONTACT
National Center for Missing & Exploited Children
1-800-843-5678 (1-800-THE-LOST) or
Des Moines Police Department (Iowa) - Missing Persons Unit - 1-515-283-4864 Or Your Local FBI

Link
http://www.missingkids.com/missingk...aseNum=601815&orgPrefix=NCMC&searchLang=en_US

 

[blueclouds]

One in the same. he is gone.
tybee

Thanks tybee. I don't mind if we all disagree here. We can disagree AND RESPECT eachother's opinion at the same time. Being so frustrated and getting angry doesn't help to get our opinions across. I'm guilty of getting too emotional on WS at times, but I hope I never step over the line of slamming someone's opinions for the sake of stating mine.

Johnny Gosch is an interesting and sad story. There was one other boy that was linked to being the same kidnapper. I cannot remember his name. Also there was one that was never linked. I'll see if I can pull up the particulars on them. Very tragic all around. If these were my children; I could only wish them to be in a better place "heaven"; rather than tortured for their entire lives. Nothing could be worse.

EDITED: As I was contemplating the names; I see Richard has posted the one "linked" child so I will look for the others.

 

[blueclouds]

You may want to read this link as well. AN OPEN LETTER TO NOREEN:
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?noframes;read=37115

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?noframes;read=37118

SOUNDS like some credible people attempting to help her. I understand the email's in Johnny's site no longer work. Maybe Noreen is starting to realize that she may have been used. Who knows.

HERE'S ANOTHER MISSING IOWA CHILD THAT WASN'T CONNECTED. I'D BET HE IS:

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/34dmia.html

Johnny missing 1982; Eugene 1984; Marc 1986 all from Des Moines; Polk County Iowa. Makes me mad that they LE; have not connected all 3 of these boys. All 3 boys caucasian; brown hair parted on the side. All from same area. Some freak taking boys every 2 years. Wonder if there is another pattern somewhere else in the states; every 2 years with missing young caucasian boys... this guy could have set up shop somewhere else.

 

[2sisters]

I see a possible link between the 3. Maybe someone can look at surrounding states too. Blueclouds, your links seem to say it all about this Gundersen character. Poor Noreen Gosch, as if she hasn't been through enough. I will say a prayer for her.

 

[Richard]

HERE'S ANOTHER MISSING IOWA CHILD THAT WASN'T CONNECTED. I'D BET HE IS:

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/34dmia.html

Johnny missing 1982; Eugene 1984; Marc 1986 all from Des Moines; Polk County Iowa. Makes me mad that they LE; have not connected all 3 of these boys. All 3 boys caucasian; brown hair parted on the side. All from same area. Some freak taking boys every 2 years. Wonder if there is another pattern somewhere else in the states; every 2 years with missing young caucasian boys... this guy could have set up shop somewhere else.

An interesting case that does seem to have similar elements to the disappearances of Johnny and Eugene. The Doe Network file only states that he went to visit a friend and was never seen again. Unlike Johnny and Eugene, he was not seen with an older man or men - at least not according to the very short write-up in the Doe file.
It is odd that the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children (NCMEC) does NOT have Marc listed in their data base. Anybody know why that is? It would be nice to know more about his case.
If the perpetrator of each of these crimes is the same person, it would seem a bit odd for the spacing to be two whole years apart, unless jail time intervened. Perhaps a careful look at similar victims in other states in and around that time would show a pattern. While some pedophiles will go for only one sex, race, size, and age range, others are not as particular.
It is of note that Johnny and Eugene were taken on paper routes, which are very predictable and regular and in the early hours. An abductor can simply wait his chance anywhere along the route. It is likely that the abductor or abductors watched these boys for a long time before they were taken. Could that have been the case with Marc as well? Did he make a regular trip to his friend's house? If so, a house along that route may have been the residence of the perpetrator.

 

[VespaElf]

One in the same. he is gone.
tybee

AHA!!! How did BC and I know??
:waitasec: Thats some websleuthing!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't mind if we all disagree here. We can disagree AND RESPECT eachother's opinion at the same time. Being so frustrated and getting angry doesn't help to get our opinions across. I'm guilty of getting too emotional on WS at times, but I hope I never step over the line of slamming someone's opinions for the sake of stating mine.

I agree and I think we all should try to follow that(I know I do! Ok I at least TRY to! :angel: )


Seriously,I agree Johnny's abduction is very likely connected to other abductions in the area and Im more than happy to pursue that and learn more but I just want to keep the conspiracy"black helicopter" stuff out of it!! :twocents:

 

[blueclouds]

Richard; there are many cases of kidnapped children that are not in NCMEC databank. I understand the procedure is that LE has to send in the file. I also understand RE: Suzanne Davis/Tonya and a possible link of "Jennifer Klein" - that Jennifer Klein is not in the database of NCMEC as well.

I wish all cases of abduction were listed in there. There is very little information regarding Marc's disappearance all around. I am speculating that his case was not "connected" to the two other boys as not to cause a panic in the community. It was probably dealt with quietly as most child kidnapping cases were back prior to 1990 or so.

Frustrating to say the least.

BTW: Messiecake; I wonder what gave it away hummmm?!!! I agree that we keep the MIB's out of the conversation. I believe that would be for another more "eclectic" message board.

 

[miles_draken]

I just wanted to follow up with some of the questions in regards to Johnny visiting his mother 14 years after his abduction. I have located court transcripts from Paul Bonacci's case in which he was awarded I believe a Million Dollars from Larry King for sexual abuse ( Franklin Cover-Up Larry King, not CNN personality). In this transcript Noreen talks about the visit and says that she asked to see the boy in questions chest. Her son Johnny had a large birth mark on this chest, and after showing this mark she was convinced it was indeed her son. This thing just keeps going folks, so much information and terrible things that happened to these kids. Johnny still can't come home because his life and his families lives are in great danger. I have made requests for this story to be done in a televised forum. HOpefully something good can come from all these terrible things.

 

[blueclouds]

I have since heard as well Miles that this Franklin King guy is a professor in Utah. I believe it's the same one. or maybe it was another guy who was part of all this crap. Either way; I cannot believe a college hired some pervert like that.

Something like a birthmark can be faked. There was a case with that Amy woman who went missing on a cruise ship. The "investigator" took the family for over 250,000 grand after supplying a "fake" picture of Amy & her tattoo sitting on a beach. It was a scam.

I don't believe that any of these boys are alive any longer. There are many SAFE PLACES he could go to if he was. Many people would protect him. The fact that this is the one and only time she saw this person leaves me skeptical. I think Johnny is dead; as sad as that is.

Conspiracy's are just that. A conspiracy. VERY few children that are kidnapped remain alive for any amount of time.

Very sad all around.