IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, W Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 - What happened? - #3

[WSTarheel]

In some cases, there are already judgements that have "exonerated" them - either by declaring that accusations against them were perjury, or by the dismissal of lawsuits against them by DeCamp. Why should they ever confront such accusations again? I'm sure they all have lives to live and wouldn't want to waste their time & money answering to every Tom, Dick & Harry that comes along for the next 20 years...

So, instead of putting the argument to rest 20 years ago they waste their time & money moving from state to state? In my opinion, THAT'S a huge red flag! What are they running from? Yes, I know that they are not required to prove their innocence in a court of law, however public opinion is a different matter. If it was me and I was innocent, I would have cleared my name 20 years ago - DNA test made public.

 

[shefner]

Roy, sorry but you seem to break your own rules. You do not want anyone saying anything that can't be proven against law enforcement,etc, then you proceed to degrade and make silly fun of Gunderson, Rothstein, and all the others you disagree with.

The tone of this whole thread is the reason that so few people choose to post here....because if they have any notion that a conspiracy might actually exist in this case, they are readily dismissed and chastized. They are fed stories about people who got "obssessed" with the Gosch case, then conspiracies in general, and eventually ended it all. Then they are told in a condescending manner, "Don't let this obssession carry you away!"

I'm not a "conspiracy theorist." I don't believe my family or my government or lizards or aliens are out to get me. But after reading about Troy Boner and his death, and Alicia Owen and her way-too-long imprisonment, Paul Bonacci and his ability to label names and places and events correctly....I just believe that something very big happened and unfortunately, it probably involved some very important people. That doesn't mean that every cop is bad, or every politician is crooked, or every banker is perverted.....

I try to respect every opinion offered. I understand and accept that I don't "know it all" and no one else here does either. Therefore our opinions are just based on our gut feelings and our best intellectual guesses. I don't feel the need to set anyone straight.

BUT....I am tired of being run-down and run-over just because I think Johnny Gosch and the Franklin Case are related. If you don't believe Gosch was kidnapped and taken into this pedophile ring, then you can share your theories with us. I will read it. But let me have my right to discuss my theories, too, without having someone here be self-righteous and condescending while telling me how wrong I am.

 

[Anita Richman]

Roy, sorry but you seem to break your own rules. You do not want anyone saying anything that can't be proven against law enforcement,etc, then you proceed to degrade and make silly fun of Gunderson, Rothstein, and all the others you disagree with.

The tone of this whole thread is the reason that so few people choose to post here....because if they have any notion that a conspiracy might actually exist in this case, they are readily dismissed and chastized. They are fed stories about people who got "obssessed" with the Gosch case, then conspiracies in general, and eventually ended it all. Then they are told in a condescending manner, "Don't let this obssession carry you away!"

I'm not a "conspiracy theorist." I don't believe my family or my government or lizards or aliens are out to get me. But after reading about Troy Boner and his death, and Alicia Owen and her way-too-long imprisonment, Paul Bonacci and his ability to label names and places and events correctly....I just believe that something very big happened and unfortunately, it probably involved some very important people. That doesn't mean that every cop is bad, or every politician is crooked, or every banker is perverted.....

I try to respect every opinion offered. I understand and accept that I don't "know it all" and no one else here does either. Therefore our opinions are just based on our gut feelings and our best intellectual guesses. I don't feel the need to set anyone straight.

BUT....I am tired of being run-down and run-over just because I think Johnny Gosch and the Franklin Case are related. If you don't believe Gosch was kidnapped and taken into this pedophile ring, then you can share your theories with us. I will read it. But let me have my right to discuss my theories, too, without having someone here be self-righteous and condescending while telling me how wrong I am.

Very good post! :clap:

 

[Roy Harrold]

So, instead of putting the argument to rest 20 years ago they waste their time & money moving from state to state? In my opinion, THAT'S a huge red flag! What are they running from? Yes, I know that they are not required to prove their innocence in a court of law, however public opinion is a different matter. If it was me and I was innocent, I would have cleared my name 20 years ago - DNA test made public.

But that's the point. In some cases, person's against whom Paul Bonacci or Owens made accusations were proven innocent, in a court of law, of the allegations - by Bonacci or Owens being convicted of perjuring themselves with regard to those allegations.

 

[Roy Harrold]

I apologize if I've made you feel unwelcome shefner.

Please do proceed to express yourself.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

....I am tired of being run-down and run-over just because I think Johnny Gosch and the Franklin Case are related...But let me have my right to discuss my theories, too, without having someone here be self-righteous and condescending while telling me how wrong I am.

I know that this was not addressed specifically to me, but I also want to make sure that no misinterpets my posts: I do not believe that the whole enchilada of the Franklin Conspiracy, though I certainly can believe that it is possible that some elites in politics and power may be organized pedophiles.

I hope that no one feels that my posts lampooning what I see as holes in the conspiracy theory is an attack or insult to any individual who posts a belief otherwise. We can debate the issues without personalizing the arguements. If anyone feels that I have crossed that line, please call me on it and I will respond appropriately.

 

[WSTarheel]

'person's against whom Paul Bonacci or Owens made accusations were proven innocent'

Please elaborate... I haven't discovered any such proof in my own research. We both know that what is allowed to be said in court varies greatly from what is the truth. I'm not being snarky here, I actually believe that you are like myself - a truth seeker. I respect your opinion.

 

[Roy Harrold]

'person's against whom Paul Bonacci or Owens made accusations were proven innocent'

Please elaborate... I haven't discovered any such proof in my own research. We both know that what is allowed to be said in court varies greatly from what is the truth. I'm not being snarky here, I actually believe that you are like myself - a truth seeker. I respect your opinion.

This does sound like hair-splitting. If you make an accusation against me, in court, and the court rules that you perjured yourself - that means that you lied when you made the accusation. If you lied, your accusation is false, then I'm exonerated of your accusation.

What more do you want? Our justice system is built on the concept: "innocent until proven guilty", not "guilty until proven innocent".

 

[WSTarheel]

What more do you want? Our justice system is built on the concept: "innocent until proven guilty", not "guilty until proven innocent".

Ummm... you completely ignored my argument. As I stated above - our courts ARE based on innocent until proven guilty. But, public opinion differs! Wadman could have publically cleared his name years ago if he was innocent. Instead he ran... he ran from NE to NC to UT. Instead of taking a simple little paternity test to prove his innocence, whenever he was discovered he ran. Why would he do that if he was innocent? Alicia Owens NEVER changed her story. She could have saved herself by recanting but she did not.

Like I said before, I'd really like to believe that LE was NOT involved in this case (and in the coverup of it). Sadly, to this day I have not seen ANYTHING that proves otherwise. In fact, the more I research the more certain I become that LE was involved.

 

[chicoliving]

Closed until further notice.

 

[christine2448]

I quite agree.

Nevertheless, I believe we all have a moral duty to speak out against socially irresponsible behaviour taking place around us. We teach children, now, not to be silent when they witness bullying at school or on the playground, but to speak up and say - "hey, that's not right!"

In this setting, I'm constantly astounded by how casually people accept things like the posting of slander & libel. In this case specifically, there are legal judgements dating back to the 1980's that certain statements by Bonacci & Owens were perjuries. Everytime those statements are subsequently repeated by other persons, our civil system is violated and thwarted. It astounds me that few people seem to care about that.

I care about that. I won't stand by silently and watch it happen.

Sorry.

I don't see any bullying going on here.

As far as 'slandering and libel', this is a discussion board, we are discussing a case, a very public case. The admin/moderators here will decide what is allowed and what is not. There is a red/white triangle located on the top right corner of each post...if you feel a moderator has missed something (that happens, there is A LOT going on here), please hit the red alert button and the post will be looked at and dealt with appropriately.

EVERYONE:

The more theories the better. Agree to disagree. Disagree respectfully. Attack the contents of the post, DO NOT attack the posters. Until this case is solved every scenario is in play.

 

[AussieLela]

Roy, sorry but you seem to break your own rules. You do not want anyone saying anything that can't be proven against law enforcement,etc, then you proceed to degrade and make silly fun of Gunderson, Rothstein, and all the others you disagree with.

The tone of this whole thread is the reason that so few people choose to post here....because if they have any notion that a conspiracy might actually exist in this case, they are readily dismissed and chastized. They are fed stories about people who got "obssessed" with the Gosch case, then conspiracies in general, and eventually ended it all. Then they are told in a condescending manner, "Don't let this obssession carry you away!"

I'm not a "conspiracy theorist." I don't believe my family or my government or lizards or aliens are out to get me. But after reading about Troy Boner and his death, and Alicia Owen and her way-too-long imprisonment, Paul Bonacci and his ability to label names and places and events correctly....I just believe that something very big happened and unfortunately, it probably involved some very important people. That doesn't mean that every cop is bad, or every politician is crooked, or every banker is perverted.....

I try to respect every opinion offered. I understand and accept that I don't "know it all" and no one else here does either. Therefore our opinions are just based on our gut feelings and our best intellectual guesses. I don't feel the need to set anyone straight.

BUT....I am tired of being run-down and run-over just because I think Johnny Gosch and the Franklin Case are related. If you don't believe Gosch was kidnapped and taken into this pedophile ring, then you can share your theories with us. I will read it. But let me have my right to discuss my theories, too, without having someone here be self-righteous and condescending while telling me how wrong I am.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Im so with you Shefner..

 

[WSTarheel]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Im so with you Shefner..

Me too! Let the discussion continue!!!

 

[WSTarheel]

Yep, you are correct RBeck. I DID listen to the defriefing again yesterday and did my own research and found the same. Sheesh! Like everyone else in this case that has inside information, it appears that Rusty Nelson (the photographer) was set up to silence (or discredit) him.

Youre welcome thats exactly why i wanted to share this information most people dont know the whole story about him. also you mentioned Paul in his debeifing being molested by a Rusty Nelson i heard that too but if you watch the debriefing again (i know its long over 4 hours) but you will see Paul say there are 2 Rustys in Omaha ones a phographer the other one is a local businessman. the businessman was the one who molested him. i looked the guy up in the omaha phonebook i think i found the guy. youre damm right Rusty holds some key information on this case why do you think the FBI raided his parents farm house 3 times in 1989 and 90 ripping out the walls looking for his evidence.by the way incriminating pictures was not the only evidence he has. Rusty stole computer disks, ledgers, copied internal documents and memos from the credit union. he risked his life doing that Larry would have killed him if he got caught.i think Rusty might have taken some of the *advertiser censored* pictures out of obligation to his employer but thats just speculation Larry King is the kind of guy you dont say no to.

 

[Roy Harrold]

I'm confused, I guess. Here is the Frquently Asked Questions from Noreen's site:

http://www.johnnygosch.com/CaseFAQ.htm

"Q: Is Johnny's case solved... what happened to him?
A: We have learned through private investigators that he was taken into a *advertiser censored*/prostitution ring which operates nationally and internationally. He is no longer captive by the people who took him. He is currently living in hiding to protect his life."

"Q: Do they know who kidnapped Johnny?
A: We have reports and court testimony from Paul Bonacci, Jimmy Gibson and Rusty Nelson regarding the people involved in kidnapping Johnny."

So, according to Noreen and DeCamp, Johnny Gosch is not a missing child case. Noreen saw and talked to him as an adult, and the circumstances of his initial disappearance are known, supposedly. Doesn't that mean his case should be removed from the Missing & Exploited database, as well as from Doe & Charley?

"Q: Is Johnny Gosch still alive?
A: Yes, according to all evidence from years of investigation and information from witnesses, Johnny is still alive."

"He is currently living in hiding to protect his life."

According to Noreen and DeCamp, there is no murder to investigate as Johnny is alive. There is no missing adult case to investigate, as he is "missing" voluntarily.

There doesn't seem to be a "what happened to Johnny" left to investigate, if this is all true. So, what is it we are supposed to be discussing then?

 

[christine2448]

There doesn't seem to be a "what happened to Johnny" left to investigate, if this is all true. So, what is it we are supposed to be discussing then?

According to West Des Moines Police Dept. (Iowa) - Missing Persons Unit - 1-515-223-3211 , listed as investigating agency on John Gosch's missing persons report, whom I spoke to at 2PM, today, EST, John Gosch is still considered missing and his investigation as of today is still open.

 

[Roy Harrold]

According to West Des Moines Police Dept. (Iowa) - Missing Persons Unit - 1-515-223-3211 , listed as investigating agency on John Gosch's missing persons report, whom I spoke to at 2PM, today, EST, John Gosch is still considered missing and his investigation as of today is still open.

That's good! I think the case should remain open, and that Johnny should stay listed as a missing child.

If, however, what Noreen and DeCamp claim is actually true, there shouldn't be a missing child case still to investigate.

?

 

[christine2448]

That's good! I think the case should remain open, and that Johnny should stay listed as a missing child.

If, however, what Noreen and DeCamp claim is actually true, there shouldn't be a missing child case still to investigate.

?

Maybe say if the police, investigating agency, believed it were true, the case would be closed?

I haven't followd this case near as close as you all...I have really only read in full the last posts in thread 3 and this thread in full.

What DO the police say about everything on Noreens site? What has their investigation uncovered?

 

[Roy Harrold]

Maybe say if the police, investigating agency, believed it were true, the case would be closed?

I haven't followd this case near as close as you all...I have really only read in full the last posts in thread 3 and this thread in full.

What DO the police say about everything on Noreens site? What has their investigation uncovered?

Gaak! You just opened Pandora's Box!

[scurrying around the forum trying to find the lid]

 

[Pandora]

Gaak! You just opened Pandora's Box!

[scurrying around the forum trying to find the lid]

WHO OPENED MY BOX?!?!