ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 18

[OldCop]

MOO
Catching up, is the forum of the belief that the bedroom doors were locked by the killer after the deed was done, then he vanishes without waking the two other roommates.
Curious if the doors were locked on the way out

As far as we know, there has been no verified report that the bedroom doors were locked. Later we received reports that the door was open when the police arrived. I am not sure which door he was referring to and I have not seen whether by “open” it meant unlocked or literally open.
“When police arrived at the home after they received a 911 call, the door was open and there was no damage inside, Moscow Police Chief James Fry said. There was no evidence of forced entry, he said.”

Here's what we know -- and don't know -- about the killings of 4 University of Idaho students as a suspect has yet to be identified | CNN

As the University of Idaho mourns the loss of four students killed in an attack at an off-campus home last weekend, a community remains in crisis over few known details surrounding the students' deaths and the lack of an identified suspect.

www.cnn.com

 

[SteveP]

Thanks, Knitty. We've been patiently waiting for you.

Patiently waiting? I've just about gnashed my teeth down to the gums, but I know the mods are wayyyy overwhelmed right now, and this case is certainly not making their workload any lighter.

 

[10ofRods]

But that would not be a racially-motivated hate crime, which is what you have been pushing for several pages now. My personal feeling, subject to change, is this was a crime done by someone not completely unknown to all of the residents of the house, and was likely motivated by rage and/or jealousy, aimed at probably one of the housemates, and the others were collateral damage, for lack of a better description. JMO

I agree. I'd only add that this degree of rage is highly pathological and if it's jealousy, that's pathological too. My own work in prisons and jails reveals one more type of motivation (although not usually for murder) and that's narcissistic entitlement (the belief that one is entitled to extreme measures/acts because one thinks that's the case - the victims are viewed as objects in the perp's mental game). Serial rapists are the ones I've seen who have this belief.

I figure it's some set of co-morbid mental disorders, in which the perp's fantasies about killing one or more of the house members took over their life and intersected with underlying obsessions about death, weaponry (knives apparently in this case) and "the hunt."

Delusional jealousy disorders are not unheard of, and can resemble schizophrenia in terms of divorce from reality, but the person isn't hearing voices nor as seriously detached from ordinary reality as, say, a disorganized schizophrenic. But we don't have nearly enough information to speculate much more.

 

[cottonweaver]

I think that if the two female victims were sleeping in the same bed, it was simply because the house may have been cold, and/or as they are old friends soon to part, for comfort.
I worked once for an acupuncturist and he said 3 am is what is called ‘kidney time,’ that is, when most people are prompted physically to wake to use the restroom. Perhaps E did just that and the killer ran into him on the way out.
I think LE should investigate motel/hotel/air bnb/campsite etc records for lone male visitors to the area that night.
In reading all this info it seems there are ‘normal’ things ie known and familiar: frat and sorority parties, dive bars and food trucks and fast food after hours, young people on social media, a group of close friends, old friends, new friends, travel and work plans, unlocked doors in a safe town, a college age couple in love, neighbors going about their lives who aren’t college students living among college students, pets. This is all normal in a college town.
The only ‘new’ thing is the NEW car. In my opinion it is connected somehow to the murders. I think LE should investigate the dirt in the tire treads to discern where the cars have been, the owner history of the car,
and anywhere the car has been between KG’s hometown and Moscow. Someone may have even put an AirTag in the car and monitored her whereabouts. JMO.

Interesting thoughts about the new car. Also the old car - her Subaru - had been offered for sale ( IDK if she sold it before she died or whether she met any potential buyers)

 

[Jeging]

The previous day, Idaho hosted UC Davis in a football game. Were any of the victims at that game? And how large of a traveling contingent of fans would UC Davis have had?

I agreeeeeeeeee. It breaks my heart. I can see the pain in the families eyes and hear the cracking in their voices as they struggle to not cry. Then the reporter doesn’t even give them the space or validation of their loss. They just ask another question that is just so insensitive to the experience of these people. It is so sad.

The job of the news media is to make money for their shareholders. Any way they can sensationalize something, they will - as that will generate more clicks. Sadly, it can often come at the expense of victims families and the integrity of a police investigation.

 

[JMI]

That's what I think, too. But I would put that knowledge in the expertise column.....the perp may not have expertise in killing a human animal, but be very adept at slaughtering large animals, or, both. jmo

That is a fair point. I guess it's important to distinguish with the term "Expertise". I viewed expertise as someone proficient in killing humans, i.e. serial killer, trained military, etc. The proficiency in taking large game does have some correllation as you mentioned.

Most hunters when they kill a big game animal get "buck fever". It's a body's real response to seeing and preparing to take game. Hands shake, heart races, adrenaline pumps. Hunters can combat these effects with Beta blockers, or anxiety meds, but the natural body response does still exist.Killing 1 person can happen in a "daze" so to speak. Immediately after, some of the adrenaline wears off and the person snaps back to reality and often panics. This panic usually leads to the killer fleeing, but I guess it could lead to "tying up loose ends". To kill one person and then move on to 3 additional without "snapping out of it", in my opinion, speaks to a highly motivated individual, fueled by hatred, scorn, fear, etc.

For killing humans, anyone that's doing it for the first time will experience similar responses described above, but they're often desensitized as it happens more and they learn to effectively rationalize and compartmentalize their emotions. I speak to this based on experiences with guys with whom I served in the military.

 

[10ofRods]

While I agree it could be an incel (falling into the category of fixed delusions, for me), most incel crimes are perpetrated against several women (such as attempts to kill a lot of women at once, usually attempted mass killings or spree killings).

I believe the crime in your link is one in which the man was planning to go and kill as many random women as possible. This isn't that. It's a bit more personal, IMO.

Multiple posters here have theorized incel(s) could be behind this crime. Incels have been charged before with hate crimes, as recently as September, with the protected class being gender-based.

Ohio 'incel' who plotted to 'slaughter' women pleads guilty to attempted hate crime

Tres Genco, 22, admitted targeting women at a university in Ohio in 2020. He faces up to life in prison, officials said.

www.nbcnews.com

From that article:

//An Ohio man whom federal prosecutors accused of planning to "slaughter" women and kill thousands of people in a mass shooting pleaded guilty to an attempted hate crime, authorities said Tuesday.// (emphasis mine).

 

[cottonweaver]

yesterday's NewsNation

At 5 mins 30 secs
Entin says that LE have recently asked tons of people not to talk to the media ( includes sororities, the corner club etc)
( also Entin's followers still asking why the survivors haven't spoken to the media)

 

[Petunia83]

snipped & bolded by me, just to respond to this aspect of your post.

Steve Goncalves said in passing, in an early interview with a Fox reporter ( younger, stocky, black guy, sorry don't recall his name right now) that after he'd had interactions with PI who'd offered help in this case, that Steve had then said to LE
wtte of ' can I not just get this detail out there to help with the investigation as ' this reporter has been really good to me' that LE responded no, please don't do that.

I will try & refind that old fox clip.
So yes, at the time I also wondered if reporters were cultivating Steve

Anyway, just to add, LE would say that it's also unethical for PI's to contact families to offer help in the middle of an investigation ( can compromise future prosecution cases etc)
Personally I can understand why Steve ( and other bereaved ) feel like they're in a impossible situation - unless we get a speedy resolution to this case

Not sure if that specific clip is posted by Fox anywhere, but if anyone is interested in watching that episode, it was from this past Saturday night when that conversation occurred. I like Lawrence Jones, I think he’s actually a really wonderful, good hearted human being, and I think he really wants justice for these kids and their families. I did find it interesting that he mentioned that info about the PI, and how MPD asked him not to say anything. I feel really horrible for him, I’ve heard him say on more than one occasion that he just doesn’t know what to do right now, because he’s her dad and he doesn’t know how to give up taking care of her and entrusting this investigation to another man… obviously, he gets that he’s not law enforcement and can’t do what they do, but I understand what he saying… he’s her dad… there’s no one else on this planet who craves justice for her more than him… it’s literally been his job her entire life to protect and take care of her, so of course he wants to do the same thing now. It probably is a good idea for him to stop talking to the media though… I truly do feel so bad for him though, since he’s not LE, he can’t be hands on with this and it seems like he doesn’t know how to handle that.

 

[Joshw2022]

What strikes me with this case is the likelihood of the offender living nearby. From looking at pictures of the house it seems to be quite overlooked by other properties, and the area isnt as quiet as initial reports suggested. This is also a student area in the middle of the night - people are out and about, or at the very least they are awake. We also know that the property is very close to other houses in which the victims knew people and spent time.

In my view, any strange vehicle would likely have been seen by someone, either at the address or leaving the address. It would have been parked outside for at least a few minutes whilst the attacker was carrying out the crime. Furthermore, the vehicle would be covered in blood...consider the brutality of the attack and simply that 4 people were stabbed (a very messy method of killing), the offender would have had their blood all over him. Getting blood out of your car seats, carpet, steering wheel etc., is a much bigger task. Getting blood off your face, hands and clothes, however? Get home, quick shower, dispose of the clothes (or burn them)...job done.

I believe the offender almost certainly travelled to and from the location and foot and will be known to at least 1 victim. If they travelled on foot then they must be from the local area, maybe even the university community itself.

 

[seemstome]

Interesting thoughts about the new car. Also the old car - her Subaru - had been offered for sale ( IDK if she sold it before she died or whether she met any potential buyers)

Yes I agree, smart thought, and LE should investigate purchaser and or track where her old car is/has been since she sold it! In my opinion it makes sense that she may have chatted with the purchaser of her car (if she had met them) and revealed personal info, as friendly people do under normal
circumstances.

 

[cottonweaver]

Not sure if that specific clip is posted by Fox anywhere, but if anyone is interested in watching that episode, it was from this past Saturday night when that conversation occurred. I like Lawrence Jones, I think he’s actually a really wonderful, good hearted human being, and I think he really wants justice for these kids and their families. I did find it interesting that he mentioned that info about the PI, and how MPD asked him not to say anything. I feel really horrible for him, I’ve heard him say on more than one occasion that he just doesn’t know what to do right now, because he’s her dad and he doesn’t know how to give up taking care of her and entrusting this investigation to another man… obviously, he gets that he’s not law enforcement and can’t do what they do, but I understand what he saying… he’s her dad… there’s no one else on this planet who craves justice for her more than him… it’s literally been his job her entire life to protect and take care of her, so of course he wants to do the same thing now. It probably is a good idea for him to stop talking to the media though… I truly do feel so bad for him though, since he’s not LE, he can’t be hands on with this and it seems like he doesn’t know how to handle that.

Thanks for naming the reporter, that's him.

I didn't get the impression that Steve was referring to Lawrence Jones. Steve didn't say which reporter or organisation he was referring to.
I agree with you - it must be an absolute living hell to go through this and feel powerless to do anything

 

[Bnic84]

The previous day, Idaho hosted UC Davis in a football game. Were any of the victims at that game? And how large of a traveling contingent of fans would UC Davis have had?

The job of the news media is to make money for their shareholders. Any way they can sensationalize something, they will - as that will generate more clicks. Sadly, it can often come at the expense of victims families and the integrity of a police investigation.

Yea. I’m aware. I just feel terrible for KGs dad who seems to be using the media as an outlet for his pain but his healing won’t come from that. Seems like they should know but maybe they don’t?

 

[XtremeScorpio]

That Dad said they were sleeping in the same bed doesn't compromise the investigation at all, because it is doubtful that law enforcement told him that.

Why would you think that? As a parent, if my daughter was murdered, one of the many questions I'd ask would be, "where was she found?" and I believe that it's very possible, at the very beginning stages of the investigation before realizing the totality of it, they would have told him.

Another possibility is bc K had already moved her stuff home, as mom stated in early interview, therefore dad knew there was no bed there for her to sleep in and it was not uncommon for K & M to share a bed. But still, I don't think dad would have assumed it and announce it the way he did unless he had been told by someone in LE.

JMO

 

[Hank0723]

The coroner also said they were likely asleep, and that they were all found in beds.

All were not in their beds. Coroner revised her statement

Some of the murdered University of Idaho students were stabbed in their beds, coroner says

According to police, the coroner said all four victims were likely asleep, some had defensive wounds and each was stabbed multiple times.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[bosh]

While I agree it could be an incel (falling into the category of fixed delusions, for me), most incel crimes are perpetrated against several women (such as attempts to kill a lot of women at once, usually attempted mass killings or spree killings).

I believe the crime in your link is one in which the man was planning to go and kill as many random women as possible. This isn't that. It's a bit more personal, IMO.

There have been crimes committed by different incels some with few victims others with many. Very easy to look up. Tallahassee yoga studio shooter for one shot 6 then killed himself.

 

[SuziQ]

I am stumped by failure of dogs to pick up of any trail of the killers. This fact would imo eliminate many of the possibilities discussed here such as any novice or spurned insulted kid by being able to cover his their tracks. Someone mentioned a pre planted camera in the house, others mentioned "more than one"... yes a garbage bag for clothes even a shower...afterword....just hought (plumber here) did the drains get checked for blood? would have stayed in system possibly if short shower....just stuck on who would be "experienced-trained" to pull this off for so long and wtf they went so quick and stealth if not a pro.

Has LE said the dogs didn't pick up a trail? The threads moved fast and I probably missed this.

 

[kodydowntownbrown]

Motive?
A) random thrill kill for a psychopath
B) felt spurned by one of the girls
C) bigoted toward Greek life
D) some sort of roommate dispute between any of the 5 girls and/or perhaps a BF
E) hit prompted by drug debt of one of the students or a parent
F) other?

I'd go with, from most to least likely, D B A C E F

B Imo

 

[Zinn]

All were not in their beds. Coroner revised her statement

Some of the murdered University of Idaho students were stabbed in their beds, coroner says

According to police, the coroner said all four victims were likely asleep, some had defensive wounds and each was stabbed multiple times.

www.cbsnews.com

Not found in *their* bed can also mean not found in their personal bed. For instance, if K&M were found in one bed.

 

[OldCop]

3am may be a 'naturally waking up time' to use the bathroom if you go to bed at 10pm, but these students hadn't long gone to bed. They were still making phone calls at 2am. They can't have been asleep more than 2 hours absolute maximum.

Yes, but I seem to recall when I had more than a few beers in me, bathroom runs became much more frequent.