ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 18

[EncyclopediaBrownJr]

If #1 or #2, you should do the same thing. They don't know to what degree the perpetrator is listening or if the perpetrator believes what law enforcement says.

If it's 1, you can draw the perpetrator out

If it's 2, you're quiet so that you can take the time to figure out who the DNA belongs to. You don't want to run the risk of the perp taking off or committing suicide.

 

[mrtnira]

A couple of posters have postulated that two knives were used. If they are thinking one knife in each hand, that is hard to do. Most people handle a tool in one hand, not handling a tool in each hand. To use a knife in each hand, and use them effectively in a combative engagement, requires training. Most people are not that physically coordinated. ("Most" is an analytical qualifier. For example, "most people" cannot run a four minute mile, but there are some who can.)

For several years, I did a survey of military and security personal combat from the 20th century, and for the most part, the knife work is done with one knife in one hand. There are some traditional "martial arts" disciplines that use two knives, but these are a minority.

 

[WildWest]

apparently there's no proper sealing at the junction of where the wall meets wall plate and concrete foundation ( architect- trained forensics guy ed Wallace explained it but I cannot recall all the in depth he gave.

Yes, I'm really stuck on this, I'm far from expert but did watch/help my home from ground up, there are so many layers of construction I cannot imagine blood coming out there. If there was a path for the blood could air would be streaming in there all winter that room must have freezing..

 

[debirlfan]

Let me run a possibility past you.

E and X are across the street at the frat party. E apparently has a room there, so chances are that some of his stuff is there, even if he spends all his time at X's.

E goes to his room to get something, and finds a frat member in his room with a female who is way too drunk to consent. E breaks it up, he and X make arrangements to get the girl home safely (Uber?) E tells frat boy that he's going to report him to the college (and maybe police) in the morning. E and X go home. It's possible that one of them (possibly anon) called the police to break up the party because they didn't want anything else to happen.

Meanwhile, frat boy is thinking about what's going to happen. He sees himself kicked out of school, maybe arrested. Decides the only thing he can do is stop E from telling anyone. (The girl might have been too out of it to remember anything.) Frat boy cases the house, sees 2nd and 3rd story lights on. Fears E told roommates what happened. Now he has to kill them all to shut them up. Either he doesn't know about downstairs roommates, or because their lights were never on, figures they know nothing.

 

[BlueTunes]

I'd like to think there's 3 scenarios right now from the investigative POV:

1. You have no DNA of the killer

2. You have DNA but no matches in any database.

3. You have DNA with a match

We can rule out 3 since they would have arrested the perp by now. That leaves 1 and 2.

If 1, you may not want to admit that you have no DNA. You may instead probably say, you have DNA and that you are working on identifying who it belongs to. That would probably spook the perp.

If 2, You probably aren't going to say you don't have DNA and you're not going to say you have the DNA for fear the perp might run or commit suicide. The logical thing to do would be to keep quiet.

At this point in the game, I would like to believe the answer is number 2. You have DNA but need time to figure out who it would belong to. If nothing else leads to the perp, I hope this is the case and it's just a matter of connecting the dots genealogically.

JMO #3 all the way. Here’s my theory as to why.

They have his DNA but it’s NOT blood. It’s from something else but it can’t prove he was the killer that day. Why? Because he’s known to the victims. He’s been at that house before. Maybe during one of their parties. Maybe he was one of students or people that responded that day when the survivors called for help. There was a number of them that responded to the scene before police. That’s why his DNA being at the house is not enough to convict him. If they had Blood DNA it would be a VERY different story.

This would explain why the search dogs can’t help LE out. I bet the dogs did pickup a trace but the traces led to all the students or people who’ve been in that house before. Again causing me to believe that the killer that day was known to the Victims.

 

[Emerald15]

have you seen this clip ( from NewsNation last night?

It is bonkers
' How to tell if you're chatting to a serial killer'

Talk about filler material on a dull news day!

Yes, saw it. Could be here reading all the posts.

 

[Down To Earth]

I've always got a million questions about this case and by the time I read all the new posts I've been spun in too many circles to remember what I want to say. I imagine the LE on this are up against a similar phenomenon. I'm not sure if it's that there's too few "easy" leads, or if there's way too many equally plausible leads, but it seems hard to get a toehold on any single particular to establish in order to track a strong lead toward a definitive suspect.

LE certainly have much more info than any of us do. MOO but I'd imagine simply walking the crime scene after the 911 call would give a fairly good indication, but not absolute certainty, of things like the order of which the victims were killed, the degree of severity in which each victim was knifed, the general condition of how the scene was left (ex: does it appear killer(s) left in haste?), etc...

MOO but I don't think even getting a sense of those generalities would necessarily point to a hard suspect. If there wasn't a fairly clear indication, the secondary layer would be things like checking social media DMs/PMs, text messages, first wave of interviews, etc... I believe if there was an obvious pointer like a series of suspicious DMs to someone's social media, LE would have followed that trail to a hard suspect by now.

I don't think this case is unsolvable, but I think there may be some anomalies that are making it pretty difficult to sort out. Complete random speculation on my part, but I think by the time it's all said and done we're going to witness some really unforeseen twists in this case.

And just to toss in a quick last tidbit, I would be shocked it there aren't a ton of photos and at least some video from the frat party and even of the police check on the noise complaint. Police stopping in on a loud college party is Instagram story gold. MOO

 

[JMI]

Yeah, that's the kitchen. It's very zoomed in, but to the right of that cabinet is the lower part of the refrigerator door. So what you see is the lower set of cabinets, and the front edge of the countertop.

ETA: Still not sure what the lines coming off of it are, though.

My first thoughts are this looks like what happens if something were to drip from the counter top. I'm a bit of a messy cook and have seen this before when spilling sauce on the counter.
Judging by some of the other photos, tidiness doesn't appear to be a high priority for anyone living in the house, so it could be a myriad of things. Thinking about the hypothesis considering it to be blood, it would mean either a victim, or the killer spent time in the kitchen after attacks. Victim possibly looking for a way to alert/call someone, killer possibly cleaning up.

 

[Honest Abraham]

Thank you for the add.
According to this article, The change from targeted to non-targeted came after initial lab results. Does this mean that they had a suspect and the lab tests cleared him? I think we are just waiting for familial DNA. We may be in for a long wait.

New documents filed in Idaho murders case against Bryan Kohberger

Idaho murders case news

www.independent.co.uk

 

[darring21]

JMO #3 all the way. Here’s my theory as to why.

They have his DNA but it’s NOT blood. It’s from something else but it can’t prove he was the killer that day. Why? Because he’s know to the victims. He’s been at that house before. Maybe during one of their parties. Maybe he was one of students or people that responded that day when the survivors called for help. There was a number of them that responded to the scene before police. That’s why his DNA being at the house is not enough to convict him. If they had Blood DNA it would be a VERY different story.

This would explain why the search dogs can’t help LE out. I bet the dogs did pickup a trace but the traces led to all the students or people who’ve been in that house before. Again causing me to believe that the killer that day was known to the Victims.

They may have DNA from many people that didn't live there due to the social traffic.

 

[Colorado303]

Great. Just great. This article just came through on my text notifications. It updates Moscow official statements to the point where they say they don’t know if the house or any of the residents were targeted.

Then the very next line says “But Moscow police told Insider cops still believe the believe the students were killed in a “targeted attack”.

To my count that’s 5 flips in the last 48 hours. Screams of internal discord IMO, and that helps nobody.

• Police probing the killings of the four Idaho students are not sure if the victims were "targeted."
• Detectives don't know if the "residence or any occupants" were targeted, Moscow police said.
• But Moscow police told Insider cops still believe the students were killed in a "targeted attack."

Police investigating the killings of 4 University of Idaho students now say they don't know if the victims were targeted in the attack - NewsBreak

"Detectives do not currently know if the residence or any occupants were specifically targeted," the Moscow Police Department said.

share.newsbreak.com

 

[cottonweaver]

Yes, saw it. Could be here reading all the posts.

considering that he's the only person who knows every detail of the crime & of his own predilections
and we, on here, know nothing about what the investigators have ( no more than any member of the public)

he'd surely find it a very frustrating site to read?

Noticed that the Newsnation segment was low on statistical detail ( What % of perps actually get involved in on-line chat? IDK but my guess is that it would be tiny)

tbc I am sure he's watching the news shows and all of the updates to try & get a sniff of whether LE have any leads

 

[isabella88]

They have his DNA but it’s NOT blood. It’s from something else but it can’t prove he was the killer that day. Why? Because he’s know to the victims.

This is an intriguing comment. Has me thinking about the fact that none of the victims were sexually assaulted, per LE. This could still be a sexually-motived crime, as some perps don't need to physically molest victims because the violent act is what gets them off. Or it's just an ex-lover. It's disgusting to think about, let alone type, but it's JMO and something I've been thinking about.

 

[mrsdue]

Not 100% on this, but I thought in an earlier thread those pictures/renovations were a few years old. Plenty of time for college kids to put some wear and tear on those cabinets.

In terms of dripping blood, there is no way that is what is in that picture since it is a lower cabinet. If it had dripped down to that point, in that amount, there would be no mistaking it, as it would have to be everywhere. See the picture I have attached, with the area I believe is in that picture (you can definitely see the lower part of the refrigerator door).

If it pooled on the counter and ran down, it would. The lower cabinet is probably going to extend out further than the upper. It is is blood, this gives an idea of what the scene must have looked like and how much could have been tracked around.

 

[EncyclopediaBrownJr]

JMO #3 all the way. Here’s my theory as to why.

They have his DNA but it’s NOT blood. It’s from something else but it can’t prove he was the killer that day. Why? Because he’s know to the victims. He’s been at that house before. Maybe during one of their parties. Maybe he was one of students or people that responded that day when the survivors called for help. There was a number of them that responded to the scene before police. That’s why his DNA being at the house is not enough to convict him. If they had Blood DNA it would be a VERY different story.

This would explain why the search dogs can’t help LE out. I bet the dogs did pickup a trace but the traces led to all the students or people who’ve been in that house before. Again causing me to believe that the killer that day was known to the Victims.

That's correct. I should clarify that I mean blood DNA. DNA that would be unmistakably tied to the killer.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I keep thinking if this was a random thrill kill just for violence and murder, why not pick a house outside of the city limits? I'm sure there are girls living in houses in more isolated places. Or rural area (more gun owners possibly)? It's darker, less used roads, less people, etc.

This house was on a cut-de-sac, so basically surrounded except for tree barrier in the back to apartment building. Main roads with cameras, houses with cameras, foot traffic, car traffic, night owls around the university and even a woman nursing her newborn, etc. Very risky even if using the back!

 

[ama623]

Yes, I'm really stuck on this, I'm far from expert but did watch/help my home from ground up, there are so many layers of construction I cannot imagine blood coming out there. If there was a path for the blood could air would be streaming in there all winter that room must have freezing..

House designer whose family works in real estate & home construction here. This isn't necessarily the case, it depends on when the house was built and what materials were used. There are lots of nooks & crannies that substances could travel into like we've seen on the outside of the house that would, at the same time, not allow cold air in like you would think. Theoretically, we would love for all of our houses to be completely sealed and only allow what we'd like in or out but unfortunately, especially as the home ages and the foundation settles, that usually isn't the case.

 

[Notthisshipsister]

A couple of posters have postulated that two knives were used. If they are thinking one knife in each hand, that is hard to do. Most people handle a tool in one hand, not handling a tool in each hand. To use a knife in each hand, and use them effectively in a combative engagement, requires training. Most people are not that physically coordinated. ("Most" is an analytical qualifier. For example, "most people" cannot run a four minute mile, but there are some who can.)

For several years, I did a survey of military and security personal combat from the 20th century, and for the most part, the knife work is done with one knife in one hand. There are some traditional "martial arts" disciplines that use two knives, but these are a minority.

I agree with you. Aside from the training for such, most people (again, the "most people") have a dominant hand, with more dexterity and more strength. Also I would wonder why the killer would want both hands engaged with a knife in each; I would think that they'd want one hand free in case they needed to push someone back or away, or hold someone down, etc.
JMO

 

[Mad Hettie]

Although I've been reading along with several cases over the years, this is the first time I've signed on to post anything.

MOO:

I think this was a thrill kill. He wanted to know what it would be like to kill someone, or so many at once, or someone this young, or ... who knows why? I'm glad I have no real clue how to get in the mind of someone who wants to draw blood.

The murderer may not have known the victims before he scoped out the house, but he made their acquaintance once he set his mark. I think he isn't a student, but he pretended to be one for the weeks leading up to the crime. I think it was timed to coincide with a football game, a lot of partying, and students leaving for break (some for the semester, as was the case with K).

As a former PACU RN, I'm wondering if E and X were given GHB, which is sometimes used as a "roofie," but is also sometimes taken by partiers as liquid ecstasy. Years ago, it was given as an anesthetic. What if the killer gave them this drug? It could have been directly, by partying with them, or by putting it in a punch at a party where many others would have felt the effects and not have realized it. GHB is produced naturally in the body in small amounts, and the window for its detection is pretty short (3-10 hours), so the killer might think toxicology reports won't report it. If E and X were incapacitated this way, it might account for the window of time, the odd communication from X to her dad at midnight(a text to throw police off a trail?) The killer may have gone back to the house with them, laying in wait for everyone else. The downstairs roommates might have been too alert or with people, or so quiet they weren't known to be home. Or, as someone else said, the cops at the 3AM call may have set him away faster than he planned.

Gamma-Hydroxybutyrate Toxicity: Practice Essentials, Background, Pathophysiology

 

[JMI]

Frustrating. These women, who are traumatized, do not owe anything to the media.

As sickening as this sounds, there will be some media outlet that will look to pay these girls for their story. Media is going to spin it as them respecting their privacy, but make no mistake about it, there's a young hungry reporter out there looking to make a name for themselves and will offer whatever it takes to get their name in the limelight.