ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 38

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I hope his saying, “That may be at trial” means that he believes there will be a timely arrest. There can’t be a trial without an arrested suspect.

Yeah i thought the same!

“" I think it'll be released when the prosecution believes that we can release that," Fry said of the call, which police have so far said little about,”

So glad to see they’re already considering a prosecution strategy!
MOO
 
I’m just stunned it hasn’t happened yet. Someone doesn’t massacre 4 kids in a college town, and get away with it. The answer is in there somewhere, whether that be dna or video.
I agree. I hope there is a break very soon. I don’t want this to be a case that gets solved years down the line. As they say, justice deferred is justice denied.
 
That was the second complaint call in two hours, and was likely the same evening as the other noise complaint call that we have seen, when one of the surviving roommates came to the door. The responding officer told her they could hear the music before they even pulled up to the house.

It really does sound like that house was party central. I have really never given any consideration to the chance that they may have been murdered by an irate neighbor, or someone connected to a neighbor, but now I may not rule it out. I wonder how many of their close neighbors were non-students. I hope they have all been questioned and interviewed. JMO
I can see it as a possibility.

What if someone couldn't get to sleep on a particular night because of their partying? What if (for instance) that person overslept for a job interview or failed an important exam, and he blamed the occupants of the house? What if his girlfriend left him because they were arguing all the time, and he blamed it on his continually being tired because of is disrupted sleep due to the noise from the party house?

I can see someone committing this crime and feeling totally justified in doing so if the inconsiderate noise from the partying ruined his life.
 
Is your point about Bundy that he would be caught quickly today because of DNA? Or something else? Because he's a planner, I would surmise that he would have adjusted to the times. I disagree with your point about risk.

I agree that some killers are smart enough to limit risk. Some can control their impulses. And some are opportunists. Bjt many killers who plan murders have antisocial tendencies, which include risk taking, impulsiveness and manipulation. Thrill seeking can a key element when you are killing for the love of the game. I say this as someone who has sat in the room with many people with Antisocial Personality Disorder, including psychopaths. When they tell their stories about their crimes they often revel in their risk taking, limit testing and when they almost get caught. They also often insert themselves in investigations, which carries enormous risk.
I believe Bundy could possibly get away with his crimes today, but certainly not with the methods he used back then.

All the ruses he used to coerce women into his car would today be caught on camera. They'd have his car, license plate, and himself on video, so he couldn't today have used the same strategy.

The bite marks he left on some of the bodies would give LE the DNA, but the way his brain seemed to work, IMO if he were around now, he'd have adapted his way to an entirely different methodology. And maybe he'd choose today not to be his own lawyer, if he were again on trial.
Didn't Ethan's brother belong to the same fraternity?

All this talk about something happening at the frat related to E and X and being secretive about it. How would that work if Ethan's brother is an active member and was there that night?

I was thinking the same thing, @MrsWatson. His triplet brother being there would, IMO, absolutely prohibit his fraternity from going after one of their own.

My niece graduated from Penn State shortly before Timothy Piazza died due to alcohol hazing, which was then covered up by the entire fraternity. But they did that to save their OWN hides. I don't think all the ritualistic loyalty oaths would lead the members to cover up someone ELSE'S crime, particularly not of this intentional murder. Even if the murderer were one of their brothers. A tragic accident and then a disgusting coverup is not equal to covering for a mass murderer.

At least I hope the frat would see it that way.
 
That was the second complaint call in two hours, and was likely the same evening as the other noise complaint call that we have seen, when one of the surviving roommates came to the door. The responding officer told her they could hear the music before they even pulled up to the house.

This couldn't have been too much before the murders, the same holiday wreath is on the door. I wouldn't think they would have put that up too long before Nov 12th...
 
Maybe the car they are looking for has an identifying mark ie dented fender, significant scratch etc they want to keep that private so they can identify it quickly from al the others. Also it keeps any vigilante from finding the car (or one he thinks it is) and taking the law into his own hands based on that identifying mark?
Seems to me they have to have an identifying factor. Something has to be specific about this car...otherwise, it's just a white Elantra. MO
 
I don't think all the ritualistic loyalty oaths would lead the members to cover up someone ELSE'S crime, particularly not of this intentional murder. Even if the murderer were one of their brothers

There's an old saying..."A Friend will Help You Move, A Brother Will Help You Move A Body"

Not suggesting there was any cover up of any kind or that any one at the frat had anything to do with the murders or any knowledge of them, its just that some oaths are held sacred to some people
 
Interesting post! A few points...
BTK wiped out the Otero household in broad daylight. While I agree that a grudge can override safety faculties, so can an irresistable urge, a lust to kill.
And we have no way of knowing that the killer was just armed with a knife.
A couple of things about that. From what I remember, BTK actually only planned to hit the mother, but the addition of the husband wasn't expected because for some reason ( i don't remember why) he stayed at home that day. Can you argue that this killer might not have known who was at the house? Certainly it is possible, but to me it is unlikely due to the timing of the attack (just as they went asleep) and the time itself of the attack (3:00-5:00 AM) shows the killer had some idea of the victim's movements. After all, it was a party house full of young people. Girls and boys that age often stay awake until the morning on the weekends.

Second, Rader actually didn't have to worry about so much. There were only 2 grown ups in the house he needed to get the cooperation from. Their children's cooperation could be gained easily if their parents was and their parents vice-versa would have just been easily gained because they wouldn't want to risk their children's lives. And the children were no physical threat to Rader. And if worst came to worst, his escape would have been pretty easy. That made his job a whole lot easier than this killer who had to deal with 4 grown ups in the prime of their lives in a very risky environment. Sure, the killer had every possible advantage he could have had in the situation he was in, but he still took an incredibly risky maneuver that, at least imo, is unexplainable for a random killing

Third, BTK actually came quite prepared with a gun in hand to immobilize the victims and make them feel 'safe'' before proceeding with the actual attack. He didn't just rush in with a knife in a multiple story house. And I know we have no way of telling if he came only with a knife, that's true, but at the same time the absence of gagging or any use of using a gun as a control method shows that it's highly unlikely that this killer basically rushed in with a knife in one hand and a gun in the other. It would make the attack terribly inconvenient for the killer.
Is your point about Bundy that he would be caught quickly today because of DNA? Or something else? Because he's a planner, I would surmise that he would have adjusted to the times. I disagree with your point about risk.
Lots of other things such as attacking victims in broad daylight and carelessly using his own vehicle. He would have been detected very early in the present day. Yes, you could say he might have adjusted his MO with modern technology, but then that wouldn't make him Bundy, would it?
I agree that some killers are smart enough to limit risk. Some can control their impulses. And some are opportunists. Bjt many killers who plan murders have antisocial tendencies, which include risk taking, impulsiveness and manipulation. Thrill seeking can a key element when you are killing for the love of the game. I say this as someone who has sat in the room with many people with Antisocial Personality Disorder, including psychopaths. When they tell their stories about their crimes they often revel in their risk taking, limit testing and when they almost get caught. They also often insert themselves in investigations, which carries enormous risk.
How many serial killers "risk taking" overwhelm their faculties of self-preservation? There's a reason the primary targets of most serial killers are the elderly or lonely women. How many serial killers use a knife as their main weapon instead of a gun, if not the main weapon then to at least use it as a measure of control? How many serial killers attack multiple victims at once in a single attack? Now combine these all together for even further unlikelihood. I've also found that serial killers more than often have a very sexual component to their crimes and in this case the killer doesn't seem to have been interested in that. Is it possible this killer in Moscow is an anomaly in the serial killer department? Sure. But is it very likely? Not in my opinion.

I think it's far more likely we're dealing with a person who has a severe grudge against these people. Might be something as simple as them throwing constant parties around and the killer having had enough of it. Might be something about their lifestyle that pissed him off. Might be he had dealings with them and they disappointed him in some way. Might be that he had feelings for one of the victims and his feeling were not returned or something else in their persona relationship that pissed him off. With people like a person capable of doing this - all kinds of flimsy reasons can make them snap. In the case of Jodi Arias when she stabbed Travis Alexander, it was basically because he wouldn't return her romantic feelings and marry her instead just preferring the casual sex Jodi offered. She grew to hate him to the point where she wanted to murder him (and very brutally at that) despite the fact that he did incredibly nice things for her throughout her friendship and throughout the whole time until the day of his death she was pretending to be a good friend. But at some point something in her snapped and he needed to die. From loving him to absolutely hating him.

My point is that with certain kinds of people it's a lot easy to piss them off with something and you may never even know what you did wrong. And if they get it in their head that you've angered them enough and they've began to resent you, they will get it in their head that you have to die whatever the consequences. Serial killers, in a sense, are more predictable because the vast majority of them follow a very specific pattern that you can distinguish and they certainly hope to continue their crimes as long as possible instead of getting caught or murdered along the way of doing something dangeorus for them.
 
Jumping ahead to post forgive me if covered.


We do in fact know what they were doing on Saturday.


Yet remember when LE released the info about the Elantra and many were certain there were barely any left on the road.


BBM. Yes and to fit their narrative about K's ex. Plenty people speculating it is him. However if you look at an image of K and JD on K's instagram you can see the height difference between the two. Seems it doesn't fit some peoples narrative when comparing to the Corner Club still image. All MOO
I don’t understand the importance of the bar video to the murder since LE still stands by their decision to clear JD as a suspect. They must have a pretty good evidence supporting their decision to eliminate the ex from the pool of possible poi.
 
opinion only


The Murderer will be a Student or ex student that has been in that house and in that yard before.

I suspect there’s a possibility that there was a driver and a Killer (2 people). A driver and a Killer would help explain the missing Elantra.

The Murderer knew it was a house full of people. There were at least 4-5 cars parked in the driveway. The Murderer was fully aware of the first floor students.

This person was aware of the Risks, yet moved forward.

I think it’s possible the student’s overall experience where they toyed with Police, left them at the door for 10-15 mins and lied to them with impunity could have created a view (in a subset of students) where the Police were viewed as a joke.

At first glance, with the houses so close and numerous people loose in the house (free to move about) and cell phones - this is a Crime where one would have to be crazy to attempt - but if viewed in a light of the Cops being viewed as essentially outwitted Mall Cops coupled with a dangerous criminal mind of the Perp, it was pulled off, for now.



MOO
 
I don’t understand the importance of the bar video to the murder since LE still stands by their decision to clear JD as a suspect. They must have a pretty good evidence supporting their decision to eliminate the ex from the pool of possible poi.
It's just the internet doing internet things. IMO.
 
We do in fact know what they were doing on Saturday.
Beside the lil get together where the group pic was taken and posted on K's social media I have never seen a timeline of each of the 6 individuals for Saturday...do you have a link I would like to see it
Video says it's Labor Day
My mistake...I guess thats just a fall wreath, I was thinking it was TG/Christmas, thank you for clarifying the date BS
 
I remember some people speculating recently that the 'unconscious person' could be a survivor who fainted, etc. I was reading early news articles looking for something else and came across this. Though I'd post for a refresher for whoever needed it.

'..after a 911 caller reported an unconscious person -- who later turned out to be one of the four victims, Idaho State Police confirmed.'

Moscow Police provide further clarity on investigation after University of Idaho murders
 
The investigation has a new public information officer. Top priority is still the Elantra:

December 27, 2022 6:34 PM

MOSCOW, Idaho — It’s been six weeks since the murders of four University of Idaho students. Still, no murder weapon has been uncovered and no suspects have been identified.

“Investigators continue to work through over 17,000 tips and leads that we’ve had thus far,” said Anthony Dahlinger, the newly appointed PIO for this investigation. “Over 250 interviews had been conducted thus far and that number continues to grow every day.”

A top priority remains tracking down a white Hyundai Elantra that was near the crime scene that night. Police say they’ve identified over 22,000 different vehicles since their search began.
Think the car is gone, repainted, burned, in water, demolished, or being hidden in like a barn somewhere. Killer had 8 hours to dispose of everything before getting on the radar
 

I don’t feel that I know much more about the murders than I knew at the beginning, except info about their personal lives. (Which can be helpful)

CBS did a recap. Bonus- interview w Mary-Ellen O’Toole inserted. She said what I told my niece: he didn’t go in that house in the middle of the night w/a huge knife to have a chat.
 
That was the second complaint call in two hours, and was likely the same evening as the other noise complaint call that we have seen, when one of the surviving roommates came to the door. The responding officer told her they could hear the music before they even pulled up to the house.

It really does sound like that house was party central. I have really never given any consideration to the chance that they may have been murdered by an irate neighbor, or someone connected to a neighbor, but now I may not rule it out. It doesn't seem that the tenants were especially considerate neighbors, as far as noise goes. I wonder how many of their close neighbors were non-students. I hope they have all been questioned and interviewed. JMO
That was probably near the TOP of LE's list and no doubt they have interviewed/vetted ALL neighbors within ear shot of the house. Any neighbors who would be bold enough to kill like this, would be putting themselves in the cross hairs of intense LE scrutiny 100%. I suspect LE is still actively exploring this angle at the present time. My personal take on this>>> An irate neighbor wouldn't attempt a bloody killing like this...just FAR TOO RISKY and BRUTAL. There are a myriad of other *solutions* to solve a problem a like this ...I need not elaborate. MOO
 
Think the car is gone, repainted, burned, in water, demolished, or being hidden in like a barn somewhere. Killer had 8 hours to dispose of everything before getting on the radar
Aren't legal repaints recorded against the VIN?

In my little legal world, getting plate numbers (hence the VIN) would show the repaint.

I also realize they might not be that far in the Elantra search yet. :)

JMO
 
I agree. Though I was not personally involved in Greek life, family members were and I got the impression that it was mainly about integrating into a social circle while away from home and on your own for the first time. Like any other young adult groups, sometimes questionable things happen at Greek events. But this idea that it's a weird secret society that could cover up crime like the Mafia doesn't really match what I know of sororities and fraternities. MOO
I am not in any way saying this happened here at UofI. However, there are multiple cases throughout the US over the past several decades in which both frats and sororities have engaged in major crimes AND cover ups.

21 greek life students from UNC-CH and Duke ran a large scale drug ring in 2020. in 2016, Six students from UC Santa Cruz arrested for running drugs through 3 Greek houses to pay for parties etc. Five Frat boys from Columbia went down for a drug running operation in 2010.

Then, there are covered up deaths:
In this case, they waited 3 hours before getting help and then tried to cover up evidence Rutgers University at center of new fraternity hazing lawsuit
Here, they forced alcohol as part of hazing and then tampered with evidence to cover up when he died: Bowling Green Fraternity Brothers Sentenced in Hazing Death of Student

I could go on because there is a lot more. It is well documented that there are many aspects of Greek Life that are not simply social and, like many other groups with "groupthink", when terrible things happen they don't always respond with the highest integrity.
 
Think the car is gone, repainted, burned, in water, demolished, or being hidden in like a barn somewhere. Killer had 8 hours to dispose of everything before getting on the radar
If the killer is local and the car isn't stolen it could alert people within his or her circle. I certainly would be surprised if my neighbour, colleague, friend or whatever suddenly got rid of their white Hyundai Elantra or repainted it.
 
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