ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #2

[white rabbit]

sweetT, I was going off of the cnn transcript via aeronomy's post:

Transcript between the 7:00 and 8:00 minute marks which discusses the store.

Reporter: Is there any rumors that you've seen or anything you want to clear up, Jessica?

JM: I just . . . Somebody at the store, um, in Leadore, said, it was one of the ladies that had worked at the store said that they saw, um, a gentleman and a younger blonde boy matching our description of our son, really filthy, buying candy for him and he was just bawling, in a black truck. That is the only . . .

DK: Here's the problem.

JM: . . . other . . .

DK: My pickup truck's black.

JM: [indicating DK] He drives a black truck.

DK: As a family we went down to get some, to get a few things.

Reporter: So it could have been you?

JM: Earlier, it was earlier that day.

DK: It was me, but it, but they claim it was at 6:00 that evening and I, we, we still were with Search and Rescue until, what [turning to JM] a quarter till four?

JM: Yeah, from . . .

DK: We didn't never, we never . . . we haven't left the camp since 1:00 that afternoon. So it's just a lot of hearsay . . . and . . .

Reporter: Was anybody camping around you?

 

[Sheoftensaid]

I live in an extremely rural area and have 4 kids ages 1-10. I agree that this outing was not weird for this family. We do stuff like that all the time, hiking, camping, general exploring. I disagree that people in these areas shouldn't/don't use 911 though. After about 15-20 minutes at the most someone should have called. Yes it takes a long time for them to respond but that's all the more reason to ca sooner rather than later.
This is so heartbreaking to read. I can only imagine how those parents are feeling, not to mention grandpa who was supposed to be watching him. My own (wonderful, amazing) dad is a bit scatterbrained and I do sometimes worry if he has my kids he will get distracted for just a second too long.

 

[carbuff]

I'd like to see a show of hands: how many people here live in a sparsely populated place or enjoy recreating in such a place? My impression is not too many. So I thought I would share a few things that are common among those who do:

1) There is a universal code of "self rescue": In an emergency, it will take too long for help to arrive. You take immediate action yourself to find someone who is missing, give first aid to someone who is hurt or sick, etc. Once you've done a thorough search, or stabilized your "patient," then you call for help. Every minute counts when you are in a remote location. If little Deorr had fallen in water, they needed to spread out and look themselves immediately, not try to call 911. They did what backcountry enthusiasts know to do, and need to do, before deciding they needed additional help.

2) Age is just a number. It's a state of mind. If great-grandpa liked the outdoors, why shouldn't he go camping in a place like this? My father-in-law was active right up until he died at 86, even though he was dying from cancer his last few years. Nothing was going to stop him from living before he died. In addition, for all we know, g-grandpa was dying and he wanted "one last time in the wilderness" before his health prevented him from being able to do so. No matter what the circumstances, a multi-generational family camping in the wilderness does not make me wonder, "What the heck?" I think, "How wonderful!"

It just saddens me to see people think this isn't a normal outing for families to take. And it also saddens me that people think this family didn't call for help quickly enough. These are not the things that bother me. What bothers me is that SAR didn't find a single item belonging to this toddler, they didn't find footprints, and their dogs didn't find a scent.

I do think it's possible he was abducted. There are cases where human predators wait in remote locations: serial killers come to mind, such as Israel Keyes. But my gut says if he was at the campground, he fell in the creek and is lodged farther down than they searched. He could be in the reservoir, but I think that is less likely (but not impossible).

All this is JMO, of course.

I just want to second every word of this.

 

[Stunned]

I don't know if this has been mentioned or already addressed, we spend a lot of time hiking in Western Carolina and Tennessee. Something we have been noticing is that a lot of homeless people AND homeless families are preferring and feel safer moving into State Parks. We asked the rangers about it and they said it was becoming an issue. Have they seen any signs of a homeless camp? Not saying they had anything to do with this, but might have seen something and afraid or scared to come forward.

 

[sunflowerchick]

Wow! After watching that video, my heart breaks for these parents.

How could there be no trace? If the cowboy boots were really big on him, wouldn't one fall off somewhere?

 

[Hatfield]

Very much so. In fact, he will be on Coast to Coast AM tonight 1AM - 5AM, EST; 10PM - 2AM PST. I believe it will be well worth the listen. I've read all but his latest book and I look at things a bit differently these days.

OT
Thanks for the update about tonight. I miss Art Bell and still am an avid listener to C2C.

IMO, I like David Paulides website and I like "mysteries". I may end up buying his 4 books because I like the strange mysteries that are involved with all the ones he lists.

I think he does a great job of just explaining the facts and letting people make up their own mind on things. His "criteria" for listing a missing person case limits the cases to ones that are strange in nature so the cases are very interesting.

 

[white rabbit]

I don't disagree, carbuff or lookingforclues. but we don't have a missing child.

I do think it's odd. some or most of us have camped, lost kids, lived in rural areas, et cetera. we don't have a thread here (thank g-d).

this is not our child nor our family nor our situation. IMO, deorr kunz was not abducted by a predator. animal or human. nor do I believe 10 days of intense search-and-rescue were in vain.

IMO Friday's timeline is the key to a horrific situation.

 

[BlkMtnGirl]

Last night in my dreams it hit me. "Lead Ore." Like lead the metal. I googled mines in Leadore, and this map made me gasp.
http://www.us-mining.com/idaho/leadore
There are hundreds of mines there. I think the poor baby may have fallen through a crack in the ground into an old mine. That would explain why there's no trace.

 

[sunflowerchick]

I don't disagree, carbuff or lookingforclues. but we don't have a missing child.

I do think it's odd. some or most of us have camped, lost kids, lived in rural areas, et cetera. we don't have a thread here (thank g-d).

this is not our child nor our family nor our situation. IMO, deorr kunz was not abducted by a predator. animal or human. nor do I believe 10 days of intense search-and-rescue were in vain.

IMO Friday's timeline is the key to a horrific situation.

BBM So then what is your theory as to what occurred?

 

[sunflowerchick]

Last night in my dreams it hit me. "Lead Ore." Like lead the metal. I googled mines in Leadore, and this map made me gasp.
http://www.us-mining.com/idaho/leadore
There are hundreds of mines there. I think the poor baby may have fallen through a crack in the ground into an old mine. That would explain why there's no trace.

That is truly terrifying!

 

[Hatfield]

Last night in my dreams it hit me. "Lead Ore." Like lead the metal. I googled mines in Leadore, and this map made me gasp.
http://www.us-mining.com/idaho/leadore
There are hundreds of mines there. I think the poor baby may have fallen through a crack in the ground into an old mine. That would explain why there's no trace.

JMO
After seeing 2 different cases on TV of young kids falling into a deep well in their own yard I would not outrule that possibility.

I am leaning to some tragic accident happening.

Someone had a great idea about the cash register receipts for the candy bar would tell exactly what time the clerk saw the people she saw.

Do we know if anyone sent in that tip to LE to be sure that they knew to check the cash register receipts for that candy bar purchase day and time?

I always wonder if LE does the due digilence checking on things like that. I would hope they would but unless we know it is confirmed I would like to know someone at least provided that tip to them. I will wait till tomorrow to see if anyone has done that and if we dont see an update that it has been sent in as a suggestion tip then I could do that.

 

[carbuff]

Last night in my dreams it hit me. "Lead Ore." Like lead the metal. I googled mines in Leadore, and this map made me gasp.
http://www.us-mining.com/idaho/leadore
There are hundreds of mines there. I think the poor baby may have fallen through a crack in the ground into an old mine. That would explain why there's no trace.

That's certainly a possibility.

 

[Mickshawn]

Last night in my dreams it hit me. "Lead Ore." Like lead the metal. I googled mines in Leadore, and this map made me gasp.
http://www.us-mining.com/idaho/leadore
There are hundreds of mines there. I think the poor baby may have fallen through a crack in the ground into an old mine. That would explain why there's no trace.

~~I had a similar thought....a hole in the ground.

 

[KateB]

I think somebody mentioned this guy....Is this "legit??" http://dcxposed.com/2014/04/27/secret-vanishings-americas-national-parks/

I'm not familar with him, but it did remind me of this CO case & this post in the Denver Westword newspaper:
Dale Stehling's Disappearance and the Need to Track People Who Vanish on Federal Land

Dale's MP thread: CO - Mitchell 'Dale' Stehling, 51, Mesa Verde NP, 9 June 2013

Tag search for all forum threads tagged 'national park' and I'm sure there's more untagged. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/tags.php?tag=national+park

 

[sunflowerchick]

I hate this line of thinking but it really is plausible as much as him being in the water (which I also hate). Since the helicopter that they brought in was equipped with high-tech equipment, would any of that be able to find someone in a mine shaft? Didn't they use some equipment to locate Erin Corwin in the mine in CA? There is a thread here on that.

 

[Jules71]

So from the sheriff's report of 7/13, it sounds then like the dogs only found Deorr's scent at the campsite. The dogs kept coming back to it.

Then the cadaver dogs alerted to the edge of the reservoir but that was because of the cremains?

Would these dogs have been able to track his scent from being in the truck heading to the store?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

 

[carbuff]

The search has been officially suspended. The sheriff said investigators from Bonneville and Bingham counties have offered assistance in further follow-up investigations into any possible criminal histories of those involved

http://lemhiweb.com/content/search-recap.

bbm

Wait. What?????

 

[sunflowerchick]

If you zoom in on the mining map you can see Timber Creek Campground. There are no mines near the campsite.

Just because they aren't mapped doesn't mean there aren't ventilation shafts or other holes in the area. I have lived in areas where mines are common.

ETA: It's worth looking into at least rather than completely discounting it. What else do they have at this point?

 

[pinklilies]

Wow! After watching that video, my heart breaks for these parents.

How could there be no trace? If the cowboy boots were really big on him, wouldn't one fall off somewhere?

And if he did manage to keep them on, they would slow him down, being too big. I'm sure we've all seen little toddlers trying to walk in other peoples shoes that are too big, they walk like they've got bricks on their feet so im struggling to see him getting far on foot.
And his little cars that he carried everywhere, they've not been found either.
I also think he must be sadly in the creek, wedged somewhere.

 

[skinnycat]

Another interesting thing are where did the boots go, it was reported that they were large on Deorr, having kids I know how easy kids boots fall off even when they are a decent fit, I don't think they would have stayed on in the creek