ID ID - Lonnie Jones, 13, Orofino, September 1951

[Peter Brendt]

Yeah, I would call myself but I'm, as you know, out of the States.

I imagined the census would need the address which without Cunninghams details I don't have. It's open already, but IIRC an address is needed.

Child died at 23 hours old, wasn't named. Can't see an obit being used.

Thanks anyway.

Yeah, I hear you. I'm in the states but have to phone two, sometimes three times a week with people in Germany. Alone the timezones are enough to kill someone.
Diane, my wife, looked up the census files as far as they are open. Seems, Cunningham didn't fill in the form. So we can forget census.

Peter

 

[Robin Hood]

Thank Diane for me please.
Would Cunningham being in prison make a difference ? I can't find a marriage record but if he had 9 kids in 1951 could he have had them in quick sucession, her in hospital maybe and him locked away for petty crimes, maybe in Snohmish or they might be his step kids ?
Maybe she was under her maiden name Else Cline if they hadn't met yet.

I once checked our census (1901) and found who I wanted in the workhouse.

Edited to add- did he just not fill 'em in or could he have been hundreds of miles away in another state ? Not sure how the American census works.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Thank Diane for me please.
Would Cunningham being in prison make a difference ? I can't find a marriage record but if he had 9 kids in 1951 could he have had them in quick sucession, her in hospital maybe and him locked away for petty crimes, maybe in Snohmish or they might be his step kids ?
Maybe she was under her maiden name Else Cline if they hadn't met yet.

I once checked our census (1901) and found who I wanted in the workhouse.

Edited to add- did he just not fill 'em in or could he have been hundreds of miles away in another state ? Not sure how the American census works.

Well, if he was in prison at the time of the murder, that would be kind of a bullet proof alibi. On the other hand, if he was out and has a history of lets say petty theft and maybe setting fires, that wouldn't look good.
About that census thing. Diane browsed over Orofino, Lewistown, Weippe and Greer. It's ordered by communities. So if he was somewhere else, be it only 50 miles, and filled in there a census form, he would get missed.

Peter

 

[Robin Hood]

Well, if he was in prison at the time of the murder, that would be kind of a bullet proof alibi. On the other hand, if he was out and has a history of lets say petty theft and maybe setting fires, that wouldn't look good.
About that census thing. Diane browsed over Orofino, Lewistown, Weippe and Greer. It's ordered by communities. So if he was somewhere else, be it only 50 miles, and filled in there a census form, he would get missed.

Peter

I meant in prison when the census was taken.

Maybe in here
http://www.thecabinet.com/darkdesti...stinations&location_id=old_idaho_penitentiary


I think you are right, he was residing somewhere else, like you say, it's a big place and without a accurate address it's guesswork.

 

[kline]

I meant in prison when the census was taken.

Maybe in here
http://www.thecabinet.com/darkdesti...stinations&location_id=old_idaho_penitentiary


I think you are right, he was residing somewhere else, like you say, it's a big place and without a accurate address it's guesswork.

Its hard telling how accurate a census was back then(I doubt its much better now)
They just had a big effort to name all the back roads and cul de sacs out in the sticks consistently for emergency services.
Which hasnt helped much They renamed 'Orofino Creek Road" 'Sunnyside Loop'All To no avail.
Not only can I guarentee the locals will still call it Orofino Creek Road for the next 50 years or so I had to summon an ambulance there last year .
The 911 operator had no idea what I was talking about when I gave the new name. Not until I just said 'Orofino Creek Road"
They also allowed everyone to name there own deadend streets and so forth so now were stuck with all manner of addresses derived from the 'Twighlight' series "Cullen Drive""Jacob Gulch""Bella Turnaround"Ect. THATS going to make alot of sense 20 years from now.
Obviously lots of 10 year old girls got the final say.
Needless to say it was probably far worse in 1951 when alot of those places where folks lived werent named at all or named after some wheat farmer's barn from 1922 .
Ill get back on things directly Im buried at the moment with a bunch of stuff,It will be done soon!

 

[Peter Brendt]

I meant in prison when the census was taken.

Maybe in here
http://www.thecabinet.com/darkdesti...stinations&location_id=old_idaho_penitentiary


I think you are right, he was residing somewhere else, like you say, it's a big place and without a accurate address it's guesswork.

Dooh, now I got it! If he was in prison, he would be counted automatically.

Peter

 

[Peter Brendt]

Its hard telling how accurate a census was back then(I doubt its much better now)
They just had a big effort to name all the back roads and cul de sacs out in the sticks consistently for emergency services.
Which hasnt helped much They renamed 'Orofino Creek Road" 'Sunnyside Loop'All To no avail.
Not only can I guarentee the locals will still call it Orofino Creek Road for the next 50 years or so I had to summon an ambulance there last year .
The 911 operator had no idea what I was talking about when I gave the new name. Not until I just said 'Orofino Creek Road"
They also allowed everyone to name there own deadend streets and so forth so now were stuck with all manner of addresses derived from the 'Twighlight' series "Cullen Drive""Jacob Gulch""Bella Turnaround"Ect. THATS going to make alot of sense 20 years from now.
Obviously lots of 10 year old girls got the final say.
Needless to say it was probably far worse in 1951 when alot of those places where folks lived werent named at all or named after some wheat farmer's barn from 1922 .
Ill get back on things directly Im buried at the moment with a bunch of stuff,It will be done soon!

Funny thing about old censuses. It appears the older ones are often more reliable than the newer ones. Less activists, I guess. However, it can happen in rural areas that you find instead of an address just "John's farm".

Peter

 

[Robin Hood]

Dooh, now I got it! If he was in prison, he would be counted automatically.

Peter

I THINK Mr Walter Cunningham was using an alias, it's 3am here so I'm off to bed, I will be back on when I've sorted it out. I have more places to search and a renumeration district in Washington to check as I've now got to grips with using the 1940 census.

 

[kline]

I THINK Mr Walter Cunningham was using an alias, it's 3am here so I'm off to bed, I will be back on when I've sorted it out. I have more places to search and a renumeration district in Washington to check as I've now got to grips with using the 1940 census.

You guys never fail to amaze me with this kind of research.

 

[Robin Hood]

Mr Walter Cunningham if I'm correct is aka Walter A. Nelson born 1908 in Washington.

At the bottom of here (which I only found yesterday) in this report it gives a little more info than the other newspaper of the day.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...466,2434005&dq=walter+cunningham+nelson&hl=en

Now if I have the right Mr Walter A Nelson his mother died in may 1951, he is on the census for 1910, 1920, 1930 (living at home, Everett ward, Snohmish) but I'm having no luck for 1940 census.

There is an Elsie Cunningham married to a Lester Cunningham in Twin Falls, Idaho on the 1940 census.

I have lots of background on Walter A Nelson taken from LDS etc. Including a request from a relative asking for info on Walters mother. There's also somebody who claims to be related to Walter's mother and has some family photos.

I can find no marriage for the Walter A Nelson (b1908) I have but I have a possible death in Stanwood, Snohmish in Nov 1974 with a SSN.

Where did Walter go up to his mother dying in 1951 ? there are some Nelsons living in Weippe, he could have moved about between cousins houses. I'm not sure where this is going but it's interesting he has called himself Cunningham and spent time with Elsie Cunningham.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Mr Walter Cunningham if I'm correct is aka Walter A. Nelson born 1908 in Washington.

At the bottom of here (which I only found yesterday) in this report it gives a little more info than the other newspaper of the day.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...466,2434005&dq=walter+cunningham+nelson&hl=en

Now if I have the right Mr Walter A Nelson his mother died in may 1951, he is on the census for 1910, 1920, 1930 (living at home, Everett ward, Snohmish) but I'm having no luck for 1940 census.

There is an Elsie Cunningham married to a Lester Cunningham in Twin Falls, Idaho on the 1940 census.

I have lots of background on Walter A Nelson taken from LDS etc. Including a request from a relative asking for info on Walters mother. There's also somebody who claims to be related to Walter's mother and has some family photos.

I can find no marriage for the Walter A Nelson (b1908) I have but I have a possible death in Stanwood, Snohmish in Nov 1974 with a SSN.

Where did Walter go up to his mother dying in 1951 ? there are some Nelsons living in Weippe, he could have moved about between cousins houses. I'm not sure where this is going but it's interesting he has called himself Cunningham and spent time with Elsie Cunningham.

Does that mean, he spent the first 41 years of his life mostly with his mother? And then his mother died in May 1951?Wouldn't that be too much of a classic?

Peter

 

[Robin Hood]

Does that mean, he spent the first 41 years of his life mostly with his mother? And then his mother died in May 1951?Wouldn't that be too much of a classic?

Peter

You knew where I was heading Peter. His father was about but much older than his mother. I could do with some help with this ancestry business, my eyes are bleeding lol

Just looking here too, I think one of the Cunningham kids is in here, cracking stuff I must say

Don't want to post her name as yet, but it's really unusual, imagine if it picked it up on a search because she was an author and I had her down a common criminal.

http://www.history.idaho.gov/sites/default/files/uploads/inmates_women_1864-1947.pdf

 

[Peter Brendt]

You knew where I was heading Peter. His father was about but much older than his mother. I could do with some help with this ancestry business, my eyes are bleeding lol

Just looking here too, I think one of the Cunningham kids is in here, cracking stuff I must say

Don't want to post her name as yet, but it's really unusual, imagine if it picked it up on a search because she was an author and I had her down a common criminal.

http://www.history.idaho.gov/sites/default/files/uploads/inmates_women_1864-1947.pdf

What about 7222? Is that a relative? Too early to be a child of Walther though.
I looked over the others. All too old to be a child of Walter. I looked for birth years between 1925 and 47 (when this catalog ends anyway) and zilch.

Peter

 

[Robin Hood]

What about 7222? Is that a relative? Too early to be a child of Walther though.
I looked over the others. All too old to be a child of Walter. I looked for birth years between 1925 and 47 (when this catalog ends anyway) and zilch.

Peter

Thats the one the searched picked up - the name of one of Lester and Elsie Cunningham kids number 7222.
Only just found the site and was about to get a coffee and look, spot on mate.

 

[Robin Hood]

I think Walter SAID he was the father of Elsie's kids, there's lots of stuff so it's easy to get confused, he could have been the bio father of the one who died.
Maybe I'm wrong, but until anything else surfaces I'm just going to plod on.

 

[Robin Hood]

Re Child abandonment, could the fact that Elsie ran away with Walter be abandonment ? I don't know how it worked then. Maybe she left 'em with the husband and he couldn't cope so he filed 'abandonment' charges.

 

[Peter Brendt]

I think Walter SAID he was the father of Elsie's kids, there's lots of stuff so it's easy to get confused, he could have been the bio father of the one who died.
Maybe I'm wrong, but until anything else surfaces I'm just going to plod on.

Too me, and I'm pretty focused on the behavioral side of things, the relevant points appear to be

- was Walther out of jail in Sept. '51?
- is there a possible stressor (and by what you found out, it looked like that).

What would be great would be to find someone who knew him, who can tell about his behavior (in mixed and in male company for example). There are two possible scenarios with gay people (regardless what is claimed for reasons of political correctness). One is impact at the age about six years when the love map forms, one is later contact and lack of heterosexual partners. But the latter ones normally pop back to heterosexuality when they get out again or are later at least bisexual. In combination with that degree of violence, this could be either abuse in the childhood (in which case it is worth to have a look at mommy) or homosexual rape during an earlier stint in prison.

Peter

 

[Robin Hood]

''was Walter out of jail in Sept. '51 ''?

He abused the 15 year old in Oct '51 so it's highly likely.

edited to add- I could do with somebody checking the ancestry stuff to make sure I've followed it properly.


We need Cunningham/Nelsons rap sheets.

Walter had a brother called Edwin, can't find him after the censuses, was looking for him in the WA area and trying to find a connection with Clearwater and Weippe. No luck.

 

[katydid23]

''was Walter out of jail in Sept. '51 ''?

He abused the 15 year old in Oct '51 so it's highly likely.

I wish we could get the details of that assault in Oct of '51. I wonder if there are any similarities, although it was obviously not a murder. But I wonder if he was stopped before getting that far?

 

[Peter Brendt]

''was Walter out of jail in Sept. '51 ''?

He abused the 15 year old in Oct '51 so it's highly likely.

edited to add- I could do with somebody checking the ancestry stuff to make sure I've followed it properly.


We need Cunningham/Nelsons rap sheets.

Walter had a brother called Edwin, can't find him after the censuses, was looking for him in the WA area and trying to find a connection with Clearwater and Weippe. No luck.

The coming two weeks are still a mess here. Diane is on Giles de Rais and Ridgway and I have the monthly website update in work and try to keep at least some deadlines. After that, we can maybe do a little more. Sorry!

Peter