IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #163

[scapa]

I do not know where he went. Do you? According to him, he sat on a bench.

I agree having a better explanation would be helpful for where he was, but the only thing that proves(at this time) that he was with Abigail Williams and Liberty German is the unspent ejected cartridge from his gun. He may very well be the murderer, but it has not been proven(at this time). Investigators must have some other evidence that places him with Abigail Williams and Liberty German on the day they died. If they don't, then it will be up to what a jury thinks.

I think many who have followed the case are looking forward to seeing what is hopefully compelling evidence tying suspect to scene to crime. Detailed public airing of that evidence beyond the original complaint against RA seems to have been tightly controlled and recently pushed back yet again.

So no, we haven't seen it, but I'm fairly confident that the prosecution case doesn't rest solely on the unspent cartridge, the eyewitnesses who saw him on the trail and the supporting web of CE already minimally spun out in public. If that's all they got -- we shall see, I guess.

 

[Jay78]

And still the state wants to keep everything under wraps. And they wonder why people talk and rumors start. This is not the way that justice and due process are expected to work. .there needs to be at least some transparency in the law. The prosecutor is going to blow this by operating entirely in secret

 

[FrostedGlass]

I've been thinking about the witnesses who claimed to have seen a man resembling RA. None of them mentioned seeing an outline of a gun in his jacket? We saw it in the grainy pics of BG.

I think they should unseal the search warrant.

 

[Jay78]

Unseal? If Nick had his way, we wouldn't have even seen the PCA

 

[Spiritecho]

Motion In Limine Filed
Motion in Limine Regarding Ballistics
Filed By: Allen, Richard M.

They are trying to get the ballistics away from the juries eyes and ears.


A motion in limine is a motion made to the court before a jury has been selected in either a civil or a criminal case. Motions in limine ask the court to order the opposing party, its counsel, and witnesses not to talk about, or even mention, certain facts or evidence in the presence or hearing of the jury. If the motion is granted, nobody is allowed to bring up those facts without first obtaining permission from the court, which must be requested outside the presence of the jury.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Murder Sheet has 2 new podcasts. This one is with Shay Hughes, discussing the most recent motions.

The Delphi Murders: A Conversation with the Hoosier Public Defender About the Upcoming Suppression Hearing

A suppression hearing in the Richard Allen case will be held this Thursday. To find out what we can expect from it, we talked with the Hoosier Public Defender, Shay Hughes. Shay offers terrific legal analysis on this and other cases on Instagram at...

art19.com

 

[twall]

Defense attorneys file motion to exclude key evidence in Delphi murders case

Richard Allen's lawyers have filed a motion asking that certain ballistics evidence be excluded from trial.

www.wthr.com

Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen files motion to eliminate ballistic evidence from trial

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. — Delphi double murders suspect Richard Allen is now asking a judge to dismiss ballistics evidence in his case. Attorneys representing Allen, who faces two counts of murder in …

fox59.com

 

[ruichi]

What bothers me the most in this case is how is it possible that nobody identified RA as the Bridge Video Guy.
The entire Delphy population must have watched the video and not even one person identified him? Family members, friends, neighbours, work colleagues, none?
With the low quality video, for a stranger, that would be normal. But when you see a person everyday you recognize the posture much better.
Would you not recognize a family member or a friend just because he has a hat, scarf, coat?
I think it should have been enough.
At this point I still have some doubts about RA being the right guy.
I hope they have better evidence than a unfired cartridge that conveniently appears at the crime scene...

 

[margarita25]

Defense attorneys file motion to exclude key evidence in Delphi murders case

Richard Allen's lawyers have filed a motion asking that certain ballistics evidence be excluded from trial.

www.wthr.com

Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen files motion to eliminate ballistic evidence from trial

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. — Delphi double murders suspect Richard Allen is now asking a judge to dismiss ballistics evidence in his case. Attorneys representing Allen, who faces two counts of murder in …

fox59.com

Wow...

 

[ArianeEmory]

Isn’t the ballistics stuff basically the only evidence we really know about the connection to RA?

 

[Falling Down]

I agree with a lot of your post, but there's one sticking point, imo. In 2017, RA told the CO that he saw three juveniles by the Freedom Bridge. How could he have lied about that so early on before anyone knew about those three juveniles being there, and what would his purpose be to? So he and the three juveniles corroborated each other's stories, imo, even if the juveniles' recollection of him varied somewhat. They didn't see anyone else there, and neither did RA, according to their claims, so it seems to me that their accounts cannot be disputed. Jmo.

I can, however, see where the woman who saw him on the bridge could be problematic, especially if RA comes back like he was coerced into saying he was on the bridge platform in his 2022 interview with LE. He hadn't even admitted to being on the bridge itself back in 2017.

It would be very difficult for him to argue his way out of where and, generally, when he said he was around 1:15-2:15 that day, not many places to go along that main trail. A) Parking area on the west side of FB/IN 25, and nobody saw him on that end of FB, anyway, B) East end of FB, near the abandoned CPS building, C) Along the trail east of FB, D) Parking area where the girls were dropped off and the spot mere feet from there where the trails bends towards MHB, E) Along the section of trail leading directly to MHB, F) The MHB.

It would take a healthy adult walking at a healthy pace roughly 14 min. to walk from where the abandoned CPS building stood, to MHB. So roughly 1/2 hour, round-trip. So LE already know the time constraints involved here, RA had to be there at least one-half hour, and if I'm not mistaken he admitted to being there much longer than that, looking at fish and checking the stock markets, according to him. So he admitted to being there much longer than 1/2 hour, in my mind it would be hard for him to explain much away in an interrogation or in court.

JMO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I think this motion concerning the unspent bullet was pretty much expected. Defense attorneys always try to get d@mning evidence tossed.
i will add that extraction marks were part of the evidence used convict Alex Murdaugh. The validity of that testimony was never an issue.
I don’t think the science behind extraction marks is as sketchy or controversial as some people are trying to make it seem.

 

[TL4S]

I think this motion concerning the unspent bullet was pretty much expected. Defense attorneys always try to get d@mning evidence tossed.
i will add that extraction marks were part of the evidence used convict Alex Murdaugh. The validity of that testimony was never an issue.
I don’t think the science behind extraction marks is as sketchy or controversial as some people are trying to make it seem.

Ballistics is controversial enough that I'm not yet comfortable on the role that unspent round will play at trial, if it's even allowed. However, I'm still hopeful on DNA and other such evidence. We better hope Indiana LE had their ducks in a row for the search of RA's home and vehicle, because it might hinge on what was found in addition to the gun. Jmo.

Here's the recent case discussed on MS where the judge barred expert witness testimony in regards to ballistics. Illinois vs Rickey Winfield.
Hooks Winfield Frye Ruling.pdf

Also Indiana Pirtle Rights:
Pirtle rights are specific to Indiana. Miranda requires police to warn a suspect before conducting a custodial interrogation. Pirtle requires similar legal warnings before an individual who is in custody can consent to a search. Pirtle is specific to Indiana.
What are your Pirtle Rights.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Ballistics is controversial enough that I'm not yet comfortable on the role that unspent round will play at trial, if it's even allowed. However, I'm still hopeful on DNA and other such evidence. We better hope Indiana LE had their ducks in a row for the search of RA's home and vehicle, because it might hinge on what was found in addition to the gun. Jmo.

Here's the recent case discussed on MS where the judge barred expert witness testimony in regards to ballistics. Illinois vs Rickey Winfield.
Hooks Winfield Frye Ruling.pdf

Also Indiana Pirtle Rights:
Pirtle rights are specific to Indiana. Miranda requires police to warn a suspect before conducting a custodial interrogation. Pirtle requires similar legal warnings before an individual who is in custody can consent to a search. Pirtle is specific to Indiana.
What are your Pirtle Rights.

Do you remember the circumstances under which he was arrested and the timeline? Between all the KAK stuff and this, it's all formed a big glob in my brain.

My understanding of Miranda and Pirtle is he has to be in custody before either one of those become an issue. Is this correct?

So if he went to talk to them voluntarily and they said something like he wasn't in trouble, they just wanted to ask him some questions...he could have agreed to let them do the search.

 

[TL4S]

Do you remember the circumstances under which he was arrested and the timeline? Between all the KAK stuff and this, it's all formed a big glob in my brain.

My understanding of Miranda and Pirtle is he has to be in custody before either one of those become an issue. Is this correct?

So if he went to talk to them voluntarily and they said something like he wasn't in trouble, they just wanted to ask him some questions...he could have agreed to let them do the search.

I'm thinking more about when the search warrant was carried out. If he wasn't told he could get a lawyer before they searched, then could that make the search invalid?

 

[MistyWaters]

I'm thinking more about when the search warrant was carried out. If he wasn't told he could get a lawyer before they searched, then could that make the search invalid?

I don’t think Pirtle is applicable at all on this case.

Pirtle holds that “a person who is asked to give consent to search while in police custody is entitled to the presence and advice of counsel prior to making the decision whether to give such consent.”

What are your Pirtle Rights

Pirtle rights are specific to Indiana. Miranda requires police to warn a suspect before conducting a custodial interrogation. Pirtle requires similar legal warnings before an individual who is in custody can consent to a search. Pirtle is specific to Indiana. Most people are familiar with...

cardellalawoffice.com

RA was questioned on October 13th but he was not under arrest nor was the search executed with his consent. Rather, the PCA indicates a search warrant was executed on the 13th, meaning it was authorized by a Judge.

https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/08C01-2210-MR-000001.pdf

 

[MistyWaters]

I think this motion concerning the unspent bullet was pretty much expected. Defense attorneys always try to get d@mning evidence tossed.
i will add that extraction marks were part of the evidence used convict Alex Murdaugh. The validity of that testimony was never an issue.
I don’t think the science behind extraction marks is as sketchy or controversial as some people are trying to make it seem.

I agree, it’s absolutely typical for a defence team to attempt to have critical evidence tossed and this has only just begun.

Defense attorneys file motion to exclude key evidence in Delphi murders case

Richard Allen's lawyers have filed a motion asking that certain ballistics evidence be excluded from trial.

www.wthr.com

“Allen’s attorneys described the state’s evidence as “flimsy,” and they raised serious questions about the science used to establish a possible link between Allen’s gun and the unspent round found at the crime scene.

“The probable cause affidavit seems to suggest that a single magic bullet is proof of (Richard Allen’s) guilt. It is a bit premature to engage in any detailed discussions regarding the veracity of this evidence until more discovery is received, but it is safe to say that the discipline of tool-mark identification (ballistics) is anything but a science. The entire discipline has been under attack in courtrooms across this country as being unreliable and lacking any scientific validity,” defense attorneys Brad Rozzi and Andrew Baldwin wrote in December, just before a judge issued a gag order in the murder case. “We anticipate a vigorous legal and factual challenge to any claims by the prosecution as to the reliability of its conclusions concerning the single magic bullet.”

 

[schooling]

I do not see how any of the witness statements proves that Richard Allen is the person who abducted the girls off the Monon High Bridge if no one saw him approach Abigail Williams and Liberty German, pull a gun, and tell the girls to go down the hill. The only physical evidence (as of this moment that has been released) that places Richard Allen at the scene of the crime is the unspent cartridge from his gun.

Things may change in the future once more evidence is released. As of today though, that is how things stand in this case.

Thank goodness the court of law does not work in similar binaries.

He placed himself adjacent to the scene wearing similar clothing. This is especially damning because at that point he didn't know video of the suspect existed. If I am a juror I'm connecting those dots.

How much weight does his statements to police carry if the bullet is thrown out? Not nearly as much. That part is true.

 

[O.Incandenza]

Do you remember the circumstances under which he was arrested and the timeline? Between all the KAK stuff and this, it's all formed a big glob in my brain.

My understanding of Miranda and Pirtle is he has to be in custody before either one of those become an issue. Is this correct?

So if he went to talk to them voluntarily and they said something like he wasn't in trouble, they just wanted to ask him some questions...he could have agreed to let them do the search.

'Custody' has a broader legal definition than just arrest. It's basically any situation where a reasonable person wouldn't feel they were free to leave. So it's possible that he could have been in custody in a legal sense before he was arrested.

 

[O.Incandenza]

Thank goodness the court of law does not work in similar binaries.

He placed himself adjacent to the scene wearing similar clothing. This is especially damning because at that point he didn't know video of the suspect existed. If I am a juror I'm connecting those dots.

How much weight does his statements to police carry if the bullet is thrown out? Not nearly as much. That part is true.

I believe the interview where he described his clothing wasn't the initial statement to the conservation officer but was actually quite recent. Why he would admit to wearing those clothes now if he's guilty is a fascinating question, but guilty people have done stranger things.