In Fairness To Cindy

[SeriouslySearching]

Has anyone actually asked her for this (that we've seen)?

I would think this is information which should be forthcoming and wouldn't need someone prodding her to reveal. IIRC, in the interview with Greta (in the house and backyard)...it was skimmed over...but I would have to go back to view that one again.

 

[Whisperer]

I think you're right. I think that's just what Cindy's problem is. One thing I don't understand, though, is if she deliberately tried to conceal or destroy evidence, why would she even tell LE about it. What I mean is, they would never have known that there were pants or a knife in that car at all unless she had told them. With that in mind, I just don't think that she deliberately tried to destroy evidence. I think she just wasn't thinking clearly and did something that was probably common for her, cleaning up after Casey. Now, the hairbrush, if that's true, I don't know what to make of that, except that maybe she was just afraid of what would be found. She really should have given them the hairbrush that Caylee mostly used. I think its wrong of her that she didn't.

My reasoning is she reported those things to LE because she feared they already knew what was in the car. She was not sure what the tow company saw or logged. She had to give the LE those things, but she made sure they were cleaned first.

Just imagine, your grandaughter is missing and you are cleaning out a car that smells of decomp....does not compute....it is not reasonable. Clear or unclear thinking would be.. if you go that far, why not just throw the things away? No way would a person keep them and wash(?) them. She handed them back because she thought they were accounted for. She tampered with evidence. Cannot come up with any good reason for washing clothes that reeked of decompostion and your daughter and grandaughter have not been seen! You would want the police to look at the car, first thing, for evidence.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Maybe you have to have lived with a sociopath to understand.

Lori Hacking thought Mark was finishing medical school until well... Christian Longo's wife and kids were fooled by and adored him despite lie after lie after lie for years. Laci didn't know about Amber or that Scott wanted her dead. Ted Bundy had a girlfriend that didn't realize for years that Ted had a secret hobby...neither did Ted's friend Ann Rule.

Sociopaths easily compartmentalize different parts of their lives. They are masters at making anyone who DARES to ask questions as over-imaginative/crazy, naggy, nit-picky, silly, insane or foolish for questioning THEIR integrity. It doesn't matter if they've lied 500 times already in the last two days, the questioner ends up feeling guilty for being suspicious.

Yes. They are that manipulative and that good. It is easy to lie, cheat, steal or worse when there is nothing inside that feels guilt, remorse or empathy. Normal people are sitting ducks who don't know which way is up by the time the sociopath is finished with them.

IMO

So true, Jolynna. It's nearly impossible to understand unless you have lived with one....how normal they can seem, and how unlike people who suffer from some other illnesses, these folks can present as so normal because they are such skilled manipulators/liars...it's one of the reasons why 70% of contested child custody cases involving domestic abuse result with the abuser winning custody...even judges, magistrates, and other well-educated court professionals can be fooled by their manipulation...so why not a nurse?..Also, prior to this case, KC may have stolen, lied, been unable to keep employment, but none of these are violent acts...just because she was capable of this IMO, doesn't make me believe CA should have thought her capable of murder...

 

[mydailyopinions]

This case has fried my brain, literally 2 days has gone by with this thread, and I still can't put into words my thoughts on fairness to Cindy..
The case could possibly be over by time my brain is rewired.
I am still sitting on the fence, falling over to one side or the other as each day goes by, so putting it into words is difficult..

 

[Bev]

CA didn't know Caylee was missing when she cleaned the car. She thought she was with KC.

 

[Penelope]

Whisperer-- you are right. Cleaning the car and the clothes does not make sense. There are 2 possibilities:
1. The thought that the car (and the smell of decomposition) and the missing grandaughter were connected did not dawn upon George and Cindy and Cindy acted the way she normally would and cleaned everything up right away.
2. George and Cindy realized that thew car and Caylee's disappearance were connected and began covering it up right away.

My bet is with #2. For them to believe #1 makes no sense considering the fact that Caylee had been missing for a month and they were concerned, the smell of decomp., Casey's behavior, their knowledge of Casey's behavior in the past, and their own life experiences as a cop and nurse.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

CA didn't know Caylee was missing when she cleaned the car. She thought she was with KC.

She never mentioned Caylee upon her arrival at AL's apartment after finding Casey nor did she attempt to look through the apartment for Caylee or any of her belongings according to the witnesses present at the time. She did not think Caylee was with Casey.

She did know that Caylee was missing when she cleaned the car. Didn't George mention it to the people at the tow yard?

 

[Whisperer]

Whisperer-- you are right. Cleaning the car and the clothes does not make sense. There are 2 possibilities:
1. The thought that the car (and the smell of decomposition) and the missing grandaughter were connected did not dawn upon George and Cindy and Cindy acted the way she normally would and cleaned everything up right away.
2. George and Cindy realized that thew car and Caylee's disappearance were connected and began covering it up right away.

My bet is with #2. For them to believe #1 makes no sense considering the fact that Caylee had been missing for a month and they were concerned, the smell of decomp., Casey's behavior, their knowledge of Casey's behavior in the past, and their own life experiences as a cop and nurse.

True....for to believe #1, you would have to believe that it is normal to wash minor things that are saturated with a sickening pungent smell. Normal would be to discard them.

 

[Whisperer]

She never mentioned Caylee upon her arrival at AL's apartment after finding Casey nor did she attempt to look through the apartment for Caylee or any of her belongings according to the witnesses present at the time. She did not think Caylee was with Casey.

She did know that Caylee was missing when she cleaned the car. Didn't George mention it to the people at the tow yard?

I would have hit the apt like a tornado. I would have been grilling the people in Tony's apt. I also would have run around and searched. I also would have wanted to see kc's things.

I don't think "missing" was the problem at the point they were at...As I recall there was a july 3rd entry where CA wrote her "Caylee is missing"....now they have a car sitting in the garage that smells like there's been a dead body in it. No one in that family led the police to the car in the garage either. This case would have taken a different course if they had.

 

[daisy7]

I would think this is information which should be forthcoming and wouldn't need someone prodding her to reveal. IIRC, in the interview with Greta (in the house and backyard)...it was skimmed over...but I would have to go back to view that one again.

Just wanted to clarify whether CA had been asked this question and did not respond/give an answer or not.

She appeared to answer all the questions from LE, whether or not we agree with her answers.

 

[Whisperer]

CA didn't know Caylee was missing when she cleaned the car. She thought she was with KC.

I know what you mean. I see where you are going but she didn't even know where kc was at this point. If you picked up the car your daughter was driving after it had been abandoned; and she had made no effort to see you or let you speak with her child for 5 weeks; and it reeked of death fumes; would the first thing on your mind be..."I should clean this car"?

 

[Never4GetCaylee]

My reasoning is she reported those things to LE because she feared they already knew what was in the car. She was not sure what the tow company saw or logged. She had to give the LE those things, but she made sure they were cleaned first.

Just imagine, your grandaughter is missing and you are cleaning out a car that smells of decomp....does not compute....it is not reasonable. Clear or unclear thinking would be.. if you go that far, why not just throw the things away? No way would a person keep them and wash(?) them. She handed them back because she thought they were accounted for. She tampered with evidence. Cannot come up with any good reason for washing clothes that reeked of decompostion and your daughter and grandaughter have not been seen! You would want the police to look at the car, first thing, for evidence.

If Cindy was worried someone had logged the contents of the car and she really wanted to cover things up, she could have just given the LE another pair of pants that had not even been in the car...traded them for the ones that smelled. I think it's entirely possible, that Cindy was panicked or in denial and was just doing "busy" work. Because again if she were serious about covering up, there were much better ways of doing it. She had to know that admitting she washed the pants wouldn't look good, but she did admit it, rather than washing them and just putting them back into the car or even better putting another similiar pair of pants in the car that she could be sure wouldn't hold any incriminating evidence.

 

[kageykaren]

As much as the A's wanted it to appear that it was a normal business day of banking , picking up a car reaking of decomp, can't find daughter and have to slueth to find a friend of KC unknown to the A's, washing KC items & the list goes on. I would say that day could have been called, "Just another frantic monday" or " diary of frantic days". The parents seemed to have a hyper! response to what they wanted to appear to be just another normal day when discussing this with LE. We still haven't heard GA's response to that day except for when he was forthright with the decomp smell.

 

[MissDiva]

Wow CA seems to have a lot of people snowed.

I don't think that feeling compassion for someone who has lost her child and her grandchild is being "snowed." Perhaps I just don't think that hatred is a useful emotion or a pleasant way to expend energy.

My aunt (who was also my Godmother) was murdered when she was NINE MONTHS PREGNANT. The baby died as well, and during the autopsy they discovered that my aunt would have likely gone into labor later that day if she hadn't been killed.

I can't even express to you what my Grandma went through. I can't even begin to describe the heartbreak, the suicidal thoughts, the grief, etc.

Please don't accuse us who have sympathy for CA as being "snowed," ok?

 

[Marple]

Hi Marple......I was kind of curious....do we know anything about Cindy's work record? I know she last worked at Gentiva...as a business office manager, I think. Anyone know prior to that? Did she ever work as a nurse, i.e., in a hospital?

George worked 10 years, they say for the Sheriff's dept. I wonder why he never found anything he enjoyed after that? That is a long time and to just quit because Cindy wanted him to is just crazy if he liked his job. I suspect something else may have gone on. Maybe he was injured and is getting a disability pension. We just don't know. He may have been contributing financially in some way, at least I hope he was. The story Cindy told the family may be dramatized.....don't know

Not sure about where she has worked but I think the emails from CA's mother, brother, etc., are pretty good evidence that CA was gainfully employed and bore the weight of the family's finances. I am sure that GA contributed some to the household but it appears to have been sporadic and we know by his own admission that he brought gambling debt/internet scam problems into the budget.

IIRC, he was at some point drawing something from worker's comp or disability. CA said she had cashed in her 401K to try to save the sinking ship. I think CA was doing all she could do to keep a roof over their heads, GA was contributing minimally to his OWN expenses and KC was running up CA's credit and stealing.

Again, not saying CA hasn't made mistakes, just that the A's are a team, and CA seems to be judged more harshly than GA. If they were more united, maybe KC wouldn't have gotten away with as much as she did. I think the Aug vid shows that KC ran to daddy when she had a rift with Mom, and he was the one who did the stroking and petting, aka, Hi beautiful! Hello Gorgeous! I think GA was accustomed to sticking his head in the sand while CA ran around with one foot nailed to the floor. Very dysfunctional and both are to blame if ONE is to blame.

JMHO

 

[debs]

I don't think that feeling compassion for someone who has lost her child and her grandchild is being "snowed." Perhaps I just don't think that hatred is a useful emotion or a pleasant way to expend energy.

My aunt (who was also my Godmother) was murdered when she was NINE MONTHS PREGNANT. The baby died as well, and during the autopsy they discovered that my aunt would have likely gone into labor later that day if she hadn't been killed.

I can't even express to you what my Grandma went through. I can't even begin to describe the heartbreak, the suicidal thoughts, the grief, etc.

Please don't accuse us who have sympathy for CA as being "snowed," ok?

I imagine the response to this will be "Then don't accuse someone who refuses to believe Cindy's lies any longer" as being filled with hatred.

I am sorry for the loss of your aunt and cousin. Life is poorer without them, I am sure.

 

[magic-cat]

I disagree with this. This is not Cindy's doing. Because as you said yourself about Cindy it was HER choice, to take care of Casey and Caylee , It was her choice to do various things..

Well Casey was 22years old she knew right from wrong. It was HER choice to do the things that she chose to do
No one made her
No one held a gun to her head.

So if she had been held accountable in her life for things she may still very well have turned out the way she did.

But she very well may NOT have turned out that way either. Had she been held accountable ever then it is possible, although not a certainty, that the entire situation would not have developed as it did. If Casey HAD been holding a job and paying bills and facing her own consequences instead of having her mommy take care of EVERYTHING, she MAY have learned a different path. We will never know...sadly.

magic-cat, I agree with everything you said except for the last line. Making Casey accountable her whole life may not have changed that evil, vile, murdering person one iota. Sometimes people are evil through and through, and I believe Casey is one of those people.

Yes, Cindy could have done things differently with all her family members, but I don't think any of it would have helped Casey. I believe evil is inherent in KC and nothing anyone could have tried would have changed her. She knows right from wrong and doesn't care. It's all about what Casey wants. JMO

And yet, MANY sociopaths lead productive and crime free lives. Something makes the difference in these people. Something causes MOST sociopaths to live in society without murdering anyone. That something very well may be accountability and consequences.

Mini-rant:

I hate how people say "if I was in her shoes I would scream at Casey until she told me the truth". I wonder, does that really work in your life? When you want something do you just scream? It doesn't work in mine.

The truth is, there is nothing you can do. You can't control your children, much less when they are adults. Sure, blame her for bad parenting, but LET HE WHO IS WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE .. I sure wasn't raised perfect.

Cindy isn't perfect, she's a human being, but blaming her for the death of Caylee is going too far.

I could never understand what she and George are feeling right now.

And nobody else could.

I have found a dead child before (my sisters baby) and know intimately what suffering and pain ensues. I do understand somewhat. I also have a good friend, 70 years old, who lost her 17 and 21 year old sons, her only sons, within 5 weeks of one another and I know the pain that SHE suffered and suffers still. I do have some inkling of the pain involved. Outside of all of that, I am not blaming Cindy for Caylee's death directly, I am simply saying that she should have TRIED to hold Casey accountable and if she could not control her then there were options available, like Juvenille Detention and such. And for the record, I have never once said I would scream at anyone. You can check all my posts from the beginning and see that this is true. I am certain that screaming at Casey would have had no effect and I believe in fact that this IS what they did-scream and fight and then forget about it. You ARE absolutely correct-there are no perfect parents, but there ARE parents who try to teach their children rather than clean up all their messes for them.

Ditto- Casey made her own choices. There is often just one sociopathic child in a family with many emotionally healthy children, so the parents arent really the issue. I doubt Caseys behavior could or would be influenced by anyone.

But we do not know this of a certainty. There is no telling what would have become of Casey had she been held accountable her whole life...and again, sadly, we will never know.:waitasec:

 

[FightTheOstrich]

Wow how do you know that ?

Casey is 22 years of age
There has been 22 years of parenting and None of us have been privy to how Casey was parented

I don't believe that someone who embraces their daughter and granddaughter into their home, to live with them , and feeds and clothes them is a bad parent.

I don't think Cindy and George are Bad Parents at all.

And i hear my own mothers voice from heaven "there but for the grace of god go I"

Seriously I think that the judgment of Cindy and George really has been unfair in so many ways
And we do not know the full story

I for one am waiting until I do hear it

Im off to bed gnight all and remember be nice

Do you think maybe it is possible that CA had her own agenda when she accepted responsibility for KC and Caylee?

 

[tasylshari]

CA didn't know Caylee was missing when she cleaned the car. She thought she was with KC.

With all due respect.....I may not be a rocket scientist or brain surgeon, but if my daughter's car was abandoned and towed and
SMELLED LIKE A DEAD DAMN BODY
I think that I would
CALL THE COPS.:waitasec::waitasec::waitasec:

 

[tasylshari]

In fairness to Cindy.....I'm sorry that the two of you should have attended major parenting sessions years ago and did not.

I'm sorry that you have remained in denial and continue to. I'm sorry that you have hampered and impeeded this ultra important investigation surrounding the disappearance and subsequent murder of your precious grandchild. I'm sorry that you are still defending that monster and that you are still sensationalizing and victimizing your sweet Caylee.

I have no sympathy whatsoever (ABSOLUTELY) for anyone in this family, with the exception of the only real victim here.....Caylee. Waste. Huge waste.