GUILTY IN - Katlyn 'Katie' Collman, 10, Crothersville, 25 Jan 2005

[chocolatechance]

I grew up in this area, and it's my understanding she was found near a lake that's known as a place for obtaining "favors." Men park in the lake lot, pretend to fish and wait for someone to approach them and make an offer. I'm guessing the police are checking out the regulars at this location. It's also right by an interstate exchange.

I was really disappointed when I saw the late Amber Alert. The policy definitely needs to be changed.

 

[chocolatechance]

You can see a partial picture of the location where she was found at the Seymour Tribune website, www.tribtown.com. It's out in the middle of a bunch of cornfields. I think the lake was formed when the interstate was built up to avoid the floods from the nearby fork of the white river. There's a dirt road that goes back to one side of the lake, and it looks like that's where her body was found.

This road is visible to everyone who drives by on highway 11, so I don't necessarily think a local committed the crime. This area has also been flooded lately, and I'd think a local might be afraid of getting stuck back there. I know I would. Lots of white trucks in the county, I'm sure, but hopefully they're at least running the owners' names.

I really want the police to catch this guy. When I was a kid, I used to run in the woods and play in the creek by my neighborhood, which isn't far from Crothersville. My mother always yelled at me about it, because she was afraid someone might grab me. I told her she was being ridiculous. Guess not.

 

[kk's mom]

I'm devastated by this news. I thought about this child all weekend, hoping to hear or see something on the news here in PA. I don't understand what this world is coming too. I just don't understand. LE failed this child. How could they think a 10 year old ran away? I just don't understand it.

 

[dannyodie]

I strongly feel that this is a local person, if not from the area that she was picked up from, he could most likely be from the seymor area. this man did not just run up on this area by accident, he knows the area, in fact may have visited there before, but all indications that I see is he is from within a 20 mile area of the location.. it is all to bad that the person that witnessed them together talking and so on did not see that as being out of the norm. this day and time people should be involving themselves when they see something like what they saw. had that person done this there would be a good chance she would be in school this morning. I just hope that the description was fairly accurate. again, I strongly feel this person knows the area well enough to get around. approx. 70 percent of children that are abducted are murdered within the first 3 hours of the abduction. most, not all, but most individuals that kill someone dump the body within 5 to 17 miles from the location in which they are from. I would encourage le, to ask the media to produce a public alert for anyone that has noticed a sudden change in the way that a person acts following the murder, most people who have killed someone, especially a child will be very distraught and sick feeling, and may even talk or show a sudden interest in the circumstances of the abduction, and murder. looking back at joe smith, the man that killed carlie brucia. his co-workers indicated that he was distraught and indicated that he was feeling sick and so on,showed just those classic signs of someone that had just killed someone, and the fact that a video was available of the abduction also played a good part in his apprehenstion. joe smith I believe also had spoken of his crime to a drug dealer, which was the last nail in his foot. I hope that this person whoever he is makes the same mistake and tells someone or at least says something that is incrimenating. the longer le waits in asking the public to be alert of individuals at the work place or just in the general public to be alert of such personality changes in someone this case may linger on for a long time with no close to it. may god bless this childs parents family and friends.

 

[chocolatechance]

Dannyodie, I won't disagree with you on it being a local person, although the state police seem to think it's not. I initially thought it would be someone familiar with Cypress Lake and Crothersville, but if so, that person was really taking a risk by going down that mud lane. That area was literally an entire lake just a few weeks ago. (We've had severe flooding, and that area had 2 feet of snow the day before Christmas Eve). This risktaking might fit however, because the guy took risks in picking her up and driving around with her before leaving Crothersville, a very small town (also home of the Red, White and Blue Festival ). I'm sure he would've seen the people that saw them together.

since he's been described as pretty young, I wonder if this was his first murder? Even if it wasn't, I agree with you in that he might be acting pretty strange.

 

[princessmer81]

Dannyodie, I won't disagree with you on it being a local person, although the state police seem to think it's not. I initially thought it would be someone familiar with Cypress Lake and Crothersville, but if so, that person was really taking a risk by going down that mud lane. That area was literally an entire lake just a few weeks ago. (We've had severe flooding, and that area had 2 feet of snow the day before Christmas Eve). This risktaking might fit however, because the guy took risks in picking her up and driving around with her before leaving Crothersville, a very small town (also home of the Red, White and Blue Festival ). I'm sure he would've seen the people that saw them together.

since he's been described as pretty young, I wonder if this was his first murder? Even if it wasn't, I agree with you in that he might be acting pretty strange.

Maybe he knows that area was a lake a few weeks ago and he dumped the body in that area in hopes that it would return to a lake and hide the evidence? :waitasec:

 

[chocolatechance]

Princessmer81, I thought about that possibility as well. Any more rain will likely flood that area again. The ground is completely saturated.

 

[2sisters]

I was hoping the post was going to say she was alive. I am originally from the area and was watching this story. It is scary that kids aren't safe anywhere. When I was younger I remember 2 cases that scared me, a girl from the area I was from being killed by her stepfather and Shannon Sherrill.

My thoughts and prayers are with Katy's family and all families of missing and murdered. At least now her family knows and doesn't have to wonder but that doesn't mean they have closure by any means.

 

[chocolatechance]

2sisters, where were you from in that area? I grew up south of Seymour, between Seymour and Crothersville, close to Dudleytown. My parents still live in the house I grew up in.

I feel like something's been lost, some sense of safety that was probably really never there. I just think about all the running around that I did as a 10-year-old. Katy's parents probably weren't worried about her walking a block or two to the store on a public street in daylight. My mom was overprotective, but I think she would've let me do this as well. I'm guessing every parent in the community will be rethinking what they let their kids do now.

 

[chocolatechance]

Recent article from Indy Star: http://www.indystar.com/articles/1/218800-8591-092.html. I know or am acquainted with several of the people mentioned in the article. LE is often criticized, but I'm sure all these area officers were looking for Katie, doing everything they could and losing sleep. I think it's the policy on amber alerts that needs to be changed.

 

[dannyodie]

I don't doubt that the le was looking for her any and every place they could think of. one thing that is bothersome is that they waited so long before posting an amber alert, like most of you all have said " most 10 yr old kids don't run away" even if they did and was seen talking to a stranger then they should issue one anyway better safe than sorry, and the fact that they had a vehicle description and a general description of the person, then that should have been reason enough to post an amber alert, not days later.. Its sad to think of, but by the time the amber alert was posted this poor child probably was already dead.. I wonder if the white ford truck was a four wheel drive type? if it where, could it have made it back through that area? I'am sure that le are tight lipped about giving out any certain info about how she was found, and if there where any foot prints in the mud or even tire tracks. as far as taking any risk, like one of you said, it was enough of a risk to pick her up the way he did, I feel this man felt comfortable enough in the area that folks might not pay special attention to him, he felt as if though he fit into the area enough to not draw much attention to himself. either he was intoxicated on drugs or alcohol and the thought of being seen just didn't seem to bother him much. I can't think of a reason of why le think that he isn't local. if he was able to convince her into the truck and a witness says she looked to be comfortable being in the truck than that should be something to consider, maybe le are only saying that to make the suspect think that they are looking elsewhere. either way this is so horrible to think that a grown-up can lower himself to the level of doing what this man did for his own personal satisfaction. maybe they have dna evidence available to work with, maybe he has been arrested before? time will only tell.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

I agree with the majority of posters here who think that LE failed this girl and her family. That Amber Alert should've went out, false alarm or not.... Why worry about whether it was a voluntary departure or an abduction? Point is, she was missing, and even if it would have been of her own volition, she is a minor and children under 17 should be returned to family even if they choose to run away.
However, how presumptuous to think the little girl would run away or stay away purposely!!
It's better to be safe than sorry, and I wouldn't care if Amber alerts were false alarms or not as long as the child was brought home safe and unharmed.

Even if a child chooses to run away, it's a sign that they need help. So either way, the Amber Alert would benefit these missing children.
I'm sorry, but LE should've reacted quicker.

This is a terrible, terrible tragedy.
I don't understand the sickos in this world and why these crimes continue to happen.
Our government needs to declare a war on national terrorism ... the terrorism of these murderous bullies who prey on young children and women.

Enough is enough.
And enough isn't being done.

What the heck good is LE if these creeps are out committing these heinous crimes?? Catch them faster, damn it!

 

[2sisters]

It should have went out sooner. It is better to be safe that sorry. Like you said PrayersForMaura, even if she ran away that is still a big deal she is 10 years oldout alone in the cold weather alone. I hope they find who did this. Maybe this incident can change things with the system. I do think it is a good system still maybe it could use a few new guidelines. Maybe they could include runaways b/c that is also a situation that doesn't always turn out good. If anything I hope it makes people more parents alert. Bad things do happen in small, safe towns like this.

Chocolatechance, I live in the south now but I used to live in Evansville and in Washington. Still have family up that way though. Good to meet a fellow Hoosier.

 

[deespoohbear]

Chocolatechance, I live in the south now but I used to live in Evansville and in Washington. Still have family up that way though. Good to meet a fellow Hoosier.

I grew up in Evansville. I don't know if you were living there in 1981 or so when Kathy Kohm from Santa Claus, Indiana was abducted and murdered. Very sad case. The LE had a suspect, but could never get enough evidence to arrest him. He finally committed suicide years later, after LE served him with a warrant for saliva and hair samples for DNA testing.

I sure hope they find the monster who murdered poor Katy and nail the creep to the wall.

 

[ariel7]

I agree with the majority of posters here who think that LE failed this girl and her family. That Amber Alert should've went out, false alarm or not.... Why worry about whether it was a voluntary departure or an abduction? Point is, she was missing, and even if it would have been of her own volition, she is a minor and children under 17 should be returned to family even if they choose to run away.
However, how presumptuous to think the little girl would run away or stay away purposely!!
It's better to be safe than sorry, and I wouldn't care if Amber alerts were false alarms or not as long as the child was brought home safe and unharmed.

Even if a child chooses to run away, it's a sign that they need help. So either way, the Amber Alert would benefit these missing children.
I'm sorry, but LE should've reacted quicker.

This is a terrible, terrible tragedy.
I don't understand the sickos in this world and why these crimes continue to happen.
Our government needs to declare a war on national terrorism ... the terrorism of these murderous bullies who prey on young children and women.

Enough is enough.
And enough isn't being done.

What the heck good is LE if these creeps are out committing these heinous crimes?? Catch them faster, damn it!

Passionate post! I agree.

In Lancaster, Ohio, 6 years ago a little girl (age 3 almost 4)
went missing from her backyard. Everyone knew time was against them
and they absolutely saturated the area with volunteer searchers,
police, tracking dogs. I remember hearing this news when it was
literally breaking and praying day and night for 4 days that this little
one would be found, that if she was yet living that the hand of
her abductor would be stayed...that he would not be able to kill
her. Day 3. In interviews w/ police you could tell most hope
was gone. They knew that all too well. Anyway, as I said the area was
just swarming w/ police, etc. and the young man who took
her and horribly raped her was unable to get "rid" of her.
So, he left her bound, nude, in the attic and nailed it shut--left her to
die there.
On day 4 they found her. Alive. Fairly well considering the horrible
nightmare she went through. A bit hypothermic if I remember correctly
and dehydrated, but talking. ( I think she wanted a coke and her ears
pierced, if I remember correctly.)
The young man who took her, Jason Earl Wagner, had been just
released from jail----no surpirse here: he was serving time for child
molestation. I can't remember how long he had served, but it wasn't
much!

The response from the police and public saved her life!

Sad that this man was ever allowed to out to harm another child, though.
Why???

AS for Jason Earl Wagner: his ending is to me a mixture of sadness
and relief: Here's a link: (this link mentions the little girl's name, but I
leave it out of my post as she is as far as I know alive and well
and sure doesn't need the publicity.)

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2001/12/06/loc_killer_asks_for.html

I pray they find Katie's killer soon. I have no doubt that he has a criminal
record of some sort. Perhaps this will lead them to him...I can only pray.

As for the LE, I really feel awful for them, too.This is such a tragedy,
and they will have to live with the heartrending what-if's the rest
of their lives. My prayers are with them, too, and especially with Katlyn's
family.

 

[fourboys]

Girl's death focuses attention on Amber Alert system

CHARLES WILSON
Associated Press
Posted on Mon, Jan. 31, 2005

INDIANAPOLIS - The death of a southern Indiana girl who vanished last week has again focused attention on the limits of the Amber Alert system designed to help police rescue abducted children before they are harmed.

When Katlyn "Katie" Collman's body was found Sunday, it marked the first time since Indiana's Amber Alert system was started two years ago that the missing child being sought was found dead.

State police did not issue a statewide alert for Collman until two days after the 10-year-old Crothersville girl went missing. A state trooper found her body Sunday in a southern Indiana stream.

Police, who were awaiting autopsy results Monday, said there was not enough initial information pointing to an abduction to meet state guidelines for issuing an alert.

"There was no information other than she was a missing child," said Indiana State Police Sgt. Jerry Goodin.

Collman's father called Crothersville police about 8:15 p.m. last Tuesday and said his daughter had not returned home four hours after leaving to buy toilet paper at a nearby store.

State Police Maj. Dan Meek said local police called twice the next day to request an Amber Alert, but neither time did they have enough information for an alert.

State law requires there to be enough information to make an alert useful, Meek said, and without a description of a suspect or suspect vehicle, police and citizens can only look for a child who may look like thousands of others.

An alert was issued Thursday after someone said they had seen the fourth-grader riding in a white pickup truck and provided a description of the driver and the vehicle.

On Monday, the day after their classmate's body was found, counselors met with Collman's classmates at the 280-student Crothersville Elementary School some 40 miles north of Louisville, Ky.

"I think the number one question was, `Why did this happen?' for the younger students," said Terry Goodin, superintendent of the Crothersville Community Schools.

Earlier this winter, the parents of an Indianapolis girl found dead six days after she vanished questioned why authorities never issued an Amber Alert in her case.

Twelve-year-old Christina Tedder disappeared Dec. 24 while walking from her home to a nearby convenience store. Six days later, a man who was an acquaintance of Tedder's family led investigators to her body in a creek just north of Indianapolis.

Marion County authorities said they did not request an alert in her case because no one witnessed an abduction or crime.

The U.S. Department of Justice, which administers the national Amber Alert system, says time is of the essence in abductions because statistics show three-quarters of the children killed by their kidnappers are slain within the first three hours of their disappearance.

But national guidelines say police should confirm an abduction has been occurred before issuing an alert, and finding witnesses or other evidence can take time.

More than 11,500 children were reported missing in Indiana last year, Indiana State Police spokesman 1st Sgt. Dave Bursten said Tuesday, and 368 girls and 293 boys have not yet been found.

Some people argue that police should issue an Amber Alert whenever a child is reported missing, even without evidence of an abduction. Bursten said if that were done, police would be issuing an average of 33 Amber Alerts a day, or one every 43 minutes.

"That's why each one of these cases has to be evaluated on its own merits and circumstances," he said.

http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/local/10781246.htm

 

[2sisters]

More than 11,500 children were reported missing in Indiana last year, Indiana State Police spokesman 1st Sgt. Dave Bursten said Tuesday, and 368 girls and 293 boys have not yet been found.



[/QUOTE]Those are really alarming numbers. and thats only IN, imagine TX or CA's numbers.

Deespoohbear, I don't remember Kathy Kohm's case, I was only 2 in 81 and we had actually just moved to So. IN that year, we may not have been there yet at the time of her dissappearance. Was she visiting the amusement park (Holiday World?) or was she from there?

 

[Trino]

I wonder why this child felt comfortable enough to get into a vehicle with a stranger. Most kids have heard over and over again that you don't talk to strangers nor do you approach vehicles occupied by someone you don't know. I wonder why she did. Do you suppose he really was a stranger as LE suspects?

 

[deespoohbear]

Deespoohbear, I don't remember Kathy Kohm's case, I was only 2 in 81 and we had actually just moved to So. IN that year, we may not have been there yet at the time of her dissappearance. Was she visiting the amusement park (Holiday World?) or was she from there?

Kathy lived in the Christmas Lake Village in Santa Claus. She was 12, the same age as I was at the time. She went out for a jog in her neighborhood in the early spring that year, and never returned home. Her body was found later that summer by a farmer. An Evansville firefighter had been the prime suspect, but LE could never get enough evidence for an indictement. Years later, I guess the case was re-examined and the suspect was questioned again. He then committed suicide. The case still remains officially unsolved as today.

Back to Katlyn, I hope that the suspect is found quickly and pays for what he did to that little girl. :behindbar

 

[chocolatechance]

You know, I keep wondering why the parents didn't report her missing for 4 hours. Maybe there was confusion on which parent she was supposed to be with? My mom would've crapped if I was gone for 4 hours when I went on a 15 minute errand to buy toilet paper (no pun intended). It also concerns me that this 10 year old got in the truck so willingly as someone else mentioned. Kids in Seymour and Crothersville are taught to beware of strangers. My mom always told me to stay away from a car if someone asked for directions, and to run and get her. We even had classes at school on staying away from strangers with Patch the Pony.

I did note in the recent article that the police tried to get an
Amber Alert, but they were turned down. The missing kids number just for IN is astounding--I had no idea so many kids go missing, and I've lived here all my life.

I sooo want this guy caught. If he's doing this at age 18-20, I can only imagine the other children he might hurt. I'm hoping the autopsy has good evidence, and that someone saw something.

Oh, someone asked about whether a 4w drive truck could get back around the Lake. I'm sure it could right now. The ground is saturated, but a 4w drive could probably make it. If no one else was down that way, they ought to have great tire tracks from the truck, maybe even shoe prints. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they'll have enough clues to catch him.