IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #16

[The Smurf]

No-the threads just got modded cause someone kept posting personal info about members of the board and other ridiculous stuff.

 

[bessie]

I've considered this, but then remembered that I've been that drunk 21-year-old college student who's found something of importance, and turned it in. That was 20 some years ago though - maybe times are different. Some of my kids are around that age though and I do believe they would turn it in. I feel that if they had the frame of mind to put it on a railing, they A. are aware it's lost and B. want to try to get it into the rightful hands. I see most drunk kids just walking past it (or maybe opening to see if it has money). Therefore, if they are cognizant enough to want to get it back to the owner, I do believe they'd take better measures than to place it on a railing. Likely, someone else could steal it from there too. Obviously, someone later found it and turned it in....why not the TWO people the night before? Yes, it takes effort but I'd think if someone cared enough to place it on that railing, he'd have cared enough to turn it in the next day. Does anyone know if Smallwood's "key card" has an imprint? If so, assuming that card was her "keys" mentioned, it would mean a simple phone call the following day to Smallwood.

I totally understand that maybe this isn't the case with kids anymore, but I'd sure like to think so which is why I still find it so odd. If LS hadn't gone missing, what are the chances that she'd ever have been able to find that sitting on a rail, several feet away from her path? What are the chances she would have even remembered where she'd been that night, or at what point she might have lost it? I just think most would have gone to more effort.

If they had still been there the next day, maybe he would've turned them in.

The first guy probably thought it was none of his business, or not his problem. The second guy, though, did what I would've done because I would've expected the owner to return to look for them. So, he left them in a more obvious place than the ground, but close enough to the original spot that if the owner did come back, she would see them. In his shoes, I wouldn't have known who they belonged to. And I would've been reluctant to take them inside because the owner would probably discover the key card/coin purse missing when he/she was ready to go home, and would be looking around for them. There was a chance the owner would find them on the railing, but none if they were in my apartment.

 

[sueC]

July 5, 2011- A plea from Lauren Spierer's parents, in an e-mail to her close friends. The family plans to put reflections they receive on the Find Lauren Web site under a new category called Reflections.

The reflections could help bring forward those who know something about Lauren. "You want to keep her in peoples thoughts. You want to keep people thinking about her and if you have something you know you ought to tell, these things pull at your heart strings and maybe they will convince you you do need to tell if there's something you know you haven't told yet," says retired Indianapolis PD captain and crime author Robert Snow.

http://www.wthr.com/story/15030146/spierer-family-seeks-reflections-about-lauren

 

[ally0x]

If Lauren did OD and the friends did not take her to a hospital/call 911 and then disposed of her body, doesn't that kind of count as murder? If this is this case and there is a trial, could they be convicted of murder? Or would it be manslaughter? Just curious.

 

[thesaint]

If Lauren did OD and the friends did not take her to a hospital/call 911 and then disposed of her body, doesn't that kind of count as murder? If this is this case and there is a trial, could they be convicted of murder? Or would it be manslaughter? Just curious.

Most states have statutorily defined 2nd degree murder to include "a killing of another that results from the unlawful distribution of any Schedule I or Schedule II drug"

So anyone who provided LS with illegal narcotics (even if they gave them to her gratis) could/would be charged with 2nd degree. If, say, LS showed up at JR's with her own supply, indulged in it and then OD'd, JR's conduct in not taking her to the ER could be charged anywhere from manslaughter to 1st degree. But as was seen today re: Casey Anthony, 1st degree is likely overreaching and a manslaughter charge is the most likely to stick.

 

[Tr.]

It's quite depressing to know that even if the body is ever found, the evidence would have degraded and quite possible no one will be put on trial or convicted of anything.
No body, no crime
Decomposed body, no crime
At least I hope people will stop posting how it makes no sense to hide a body.
:banghead:

You can convict based on a confession without a body.
You can convict based on strong secondary evidence without a body if your primary evidence includes blood.
You can definitely convict with a water contaminated decomposed body and supporting evidence such as motive and opportunity, forensic evidence from suspects car, person, or quarters, witness statements if any, video, cell and/ or gps records...etc
You lose the DNA evidence in water but a corpse still tells a story.

Here is a fascinating story from 1 year ago about remains discovered 20 years after the crime. LE had their suspect all along.
They just couldn't prove a crime had went down because there was no blood or body evidence. Then this:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5233745"]Identified! Human Remain found Westmoreland County PA - Curtis Eutsey - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

http://www.wtae.com/r/23709143/detail.html

There are many cases on "stand by" (if you will) for lack of evidential proof that the suspected crime actually happened. That proof is blood and/or body.

Hope this helps.

 

[PineMushroom]

Still nothing on JR's alleged visitor from his hometown who was in b-town when LS went missing?

 

[Skigirl]

Therefore, if they are cognizant enough to want to get it back to the owner, I do believe they'd take better measures than to place it on a railing. Likely, someone else could steal it from there too. Obviously, someone later found it and turned it in....why not the TWO people the night before?

I actually agree with a couple other people who didn't find this odd. I've found things before and put them in a more visible spot instead of taking them to the police station. I always figure that when people lose something, they are pretty likely to retrace their steps, and they are more likely to be reunited with their missing item if it's along their route than if it's turned into the police because it might not occur to them to check with the police. Even if it does, lost-and-found boxes seem to often not work out for random reasons, like the person looking in the box wouldn't have described the item on the terms the person looking for the item does and so doesn't recognize it (this happened to me recently when I called a restaurant about a lost scarf - they told me they had a pink one and I almost didn't go in because mine was made with orange and red yarn).

When I was in college at a different (but very similar) big ten school, I left my keys on an ATM one night. I retraced my steps many hours later. A very sweet (unknown) person left a note on it which I found, but getting the keys back from the police ended up being a nightmare - I was on foot and the police had turned the keys over to the University police because it had a university key on the chain, had to walk across town to the other police station; it was hard to rouse them to open the door (this was before college students all had cell phones), then they did they didn't want to give the chain back because one of the keys belonged to the University... it took much negotiation and pleading to get the chain back.

Anyway, I could see myself doing either one, but if they were right outside a residential building, I'd figure they belonged to one of the residents and would want to short-circuit their search and wouldn't be that unlikely to just leave them in a more visible spot, especially at night when there is little foot traffic and the likelihood that they'd be found by the person looking for them (rather than someone else walking by) would be pretty high.

 

[iluvmua]

Fly with the angels, Lauren!

 

[sv614]

I will not post the link because I don't know if it's O.K. to do so or not, but commentors on Tony's website are identifying the friend and saying that he left Bloomington on 6/3/11 ...

You can find the reference at the end of the comments in the last post.

I wonder if JR left then too?

I am sure Tony Gatto is all over this lead and that we will soon hear more about him.

 

[porchpile]

I will not post the link because I don't know if it's O.K. to do so or not, but commentors on Tony's website are identifying the friend and saying that he left Bloomington on 6/3/11 ...

You can find the reference at the end of the comments in the last post.

I wonder if JR left then too?

I am sure Tony Gatto is all over this lead and that we will soon hear more about him.

I'm pretty sure they're getting that from the guy's twitter feed. He tweeted something about being at a Bloomington restaurant on June 3rd (which would be after any events of the early morning.

 

[Gabby66]

Thanks to everyone who posted about the purse being left on the railing. It's always nice to get an understanding of why people do what they do so I appreciate the posts I get that people think it's helpful to put something out in the open, and I believe people are genuinely trying to get it back into the hands of the rightful owner. Maybe it's not an "odd" thing today. I still find it NOT the best measure. Some drunk person losing an important object, likely won't remember where she went to retrace her steps anyway. I would also worry about someone stealing it. It's sad that kids don't want to be "put out" by taking the time to go to the police. I had a purse stolen once in college and made a police report. I guess I thought that everyone did this. Weeks later, my purse was discovered in a dumpster by another student, who took it to the police. My money was gone, but thankfully I received back my photos. Many people would have thought I'd just meant to toss it out and not even bother, I guess. Another time I had a purse stolen and a guy found it on the side of the road, opened and everything strewn all over. He found my home number, called my Mom, then got my college number from her. He even went to the PO and mailed it to me (at his expense) since it'd been stolen out of town. I've never forgotten that. The man said he walked all over the grass to pick up EVERYTHING that had been tossed out and even returned my tampons! :floorlaugh:

 

[jjenny]

When I had my purse stolen, my credit cards were used and nothing was ever returned to me. I did file a police report but it was completely useless as it doesn't appear any attempt was made to recover anything. So leaving it out on the railing doesn't sound that bad.

 

[Gabby66]

When I had my purse stolen, my credit cards were used and nothing was ever returned to me. I did file a police report but it was completely useless as it doesn't appear any attempt was made to recover anything. So leaving it out on the railing doesn't sound that bad.

Your report was "completely useless" ONLY because no one turned in your purse. That's my point. It sounds like too many people sadly do not take that step anymore. If someone did find your purse, and put it on a railing, you'd never know where to look since it was stolen. These boys who put LS's on a railing could have been placing a stolen and discarded purse there too. She would never have found it. The point I'm trying to make is that turning in a found item to the police (or apartment building) is the best way to get an object back into the hands of the rightful owner. Posters here have established that I'm wrong about it being "odd" b/c it sounds like putting it on the railing may be the most COMMON thing to do. However, I do not think it's the best decision.

 

[kissdegirl]

Your report was "completely useless" ONLY because no one turned in your purse. That's my point. It sounds like too many people sadly do not take that step anymore. If someone did find your purse, and put it on a railing, you'd never know where to look since it was stolen. These boys who put LS's on a railing could have been placing a stolen and discarded purse there too. She would never have found it. The point I'm trying to make is that turning in a found item to the police (or apartment building) is the best way to get an object back into the hands of the rightful owner. Posters here have established that I'm wrong about it being "odd" b/c it sounds like putting it on the railing may be the most COMMON thing to do. However, I do not think it's the best decision.

I'm unsure what I would have done in their shoes, seeing that there's a lot of foot traffic through the area, at least during the day. But, I have found a credit card in a parking lot before, and I took it inside the store and called out for the person whose name was on it. Luckily for her, she was still in the store. If no one had claimed it, I would have given it to the manager on duty at the store. Being in the city maybe it's different than their little B-bubble, but I certainly wouldn't have put the thing on the curb or sidewalk so the owner could find it later. :waitasec:
Maybe the 2nd guy looked for cash in her wristlet, then set it on the railing after, rather than putting it there for the owner to find more easily.

 

[Jupiter812]

I will not post the link because I don't know if it's O.K. to do so or not, but commentors on Tony's website are identifying the friend and saying that he left Bloomington on 6/3/11 ...

You can find the reference at the end of the comments in the last post.

I wonder if JR left then too?

I am sure Tony Gatto is all over this lead and that we will soon hear more about him.

Interesting. Another AEPi fraternity brother.

 

[Jupiter812]

I've never taken a found item to the police. In a few cases of finding someone's wallet/purse I've contacted them directly. In cases of scarves, gloves, etc. I pick it up and put it where the person can find it when they trace their steps or I turn it in and lost and found if there is one, such as at the grocery store. People use Craigslist too. Trust me, this is common in Bloomington and IU campus.

I'm sure a lot of the students living in the downtown apartments do not want to visit the police station for any reason. So they have a system that works for them.

 

[Tr.]

Maybe the 2nd guy looked for cash in her wristlet, then set it on the railing after, rather than putting it there for the owner to find more easily.

Probably did check for cash.
I would be utterly amazed if I lost my wallet outside and found it on the steps of my building intact hours later.

Something like that, with monetary value, I would hope someone would return directly to me or turn in to the police. Please don't leave it laying there.

Big difference between that and a key ring.

I think whether you leave the keys for the owner to find depends on the setting and surroundings.

It's a common sense call...not a character flaw.
I

 

[OldSteve]

I've considered this, but then remembered that I've been that drunk 21-year-old college student who's found something of importance, and turned it in. That was 20 some years ago though - maybe times are different. Some of my kids are around that age though and I do believe they would turn it in. I feel that if they had the frame of mind to put it on a railing, they A. are aware it's lost and B. want to try to get it into the rightful hands. I see most drunk kids just walking past it (or maybe opening to see if it has money). Therefore, if they are cognizant enough to want to get it back to the owner, I do believe they'd take better measures than to place it on a railing. Likely, someone else could steal it from there too. Obviously, someone later found it and turned it in....why not the TWO people the night before? Yes, it takes effort but I'd think if someone cared enough to place it on that railing, he'd have cared enough to turn it in the next day. Does anyone know if Smallwood's "key card" has an imprint? If so, assuming that card was her "keys" mentioned, it would mean a simple phone call the following day to Smallwood.

I totally understand that maybe this isn't the case with kids anymore, but I'd sure like to think so which is why I still find it so odd. If LS hadn't gone missing, what are the chances that she'd ever have been able to find that sitting on a rail, several feet away from her path? What are the chances she would have even remembered where she'd been that night, or at what point she might have lost it? I just think most would have gone to more effort.

Why not simply put it into a US mail box if it has an address to return it to? Anyway, when I was young that's what we were told to do if we found lost keys or drivers license...

 

[Gabby66]

Why not simply put it into a US mail box if it has an address to return it to? Anyway, when I was young that's what we were told to do if we found lost keys or drivers license...

Sure - that would be ideal. But unfortunately many times there is no ID. If there is, that would of course be the best (and nicest) thing to do!