IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #16

[Skigirl]

Q: Have you found her keys?
A: We found keys, actually, friends first found keys turned them over to us, we found keys in the small card purse or coin purse in the alley. The same place we last saw her on video.


While you all were looking at the transcript I had gone back and re-transcribed the answer to the keys question because I knew it was important and somewhat odd -- I've corrected what I typed, but I don't think it changes the meaning. The way the lieutenant answered was confusing and odd because he stopped himself mid-answer.

"Q: Have you found her keys?
A: We found keys, that were…actually, friends first found keys turned them over to us, but we found keys in the small card purse or coin purse in the alley. The same place we where last saw her on video."​

 

[TonyGatto]

Q: Have you found her keys?
A: We found keys, actually, friends first found keys turned them over to us, we found keys in the small card purse or coin purse in the alley. The same place we last saw her on video.

Makes absolutely no sense.
Something so simple.
Where were the keys found.
Has turned into something so complex-ed.

LE SHOULD RELEASE SOME VIDEO.
THEY ALREADY TALKED ABOUT IT.
SO RELEASING IT SHOULD NOT INTERFERE
WITH THE INVESTIGATION.
​

With all due respect MrTT, the police seem to be very clear (June 10 presser) that the keys were in the alley where the video was taken. You have been showing photos of the gravel lot and have been saying that the railings in that photo is where the keys were found. What are you basing that on?

 

[sleuthin4fun]

With regards to the answer to the question about the keys. When I read this, I read- #1 LS friends found keys and turned them over to LE and, #2 LE found keys in the alley. So, were there 2 sets of keys found?

 

[MHamby]

Or, if there was only 1 set of keys, then it is... her friends found her coin purse in the alley and handed them over to LE, which in turn found keys in it.

That could be what he is saying.

Otherwise, I would think that there would have to be two sets of keys.

Or, he is referring to a 'key' card and keys, as in car keys. 2 different keys. Lost in two different places...?

 

[MHamby]

With all due respect MrTT, the police seem to be very clear (June 10 presser) that the keys were in the alley where the video was taken. You have been showing photos of the gravel lot and have been saying that the railings in that photo is where the keys were found. What are you basing that on?

I think the point is that if friends found keys and handed them over to LE, then how could LE have found keys in the alley?

 

[TonyGatto]

I think the point is that if friends found keys and handed them over to LE, then how could LE have found keys in the alley?

I think when they say they found keys...all they really mean is that keys were found.

 

[Frogzilla]

http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-surv...t-spotted-20110612,0,7227876.storyBloomington From June 13
Police Captain Joseph Qualters told reporters Lauren Spierer's keys were found on the railing of an apartment building near where she was last seen June 3rd.

 

[MHamby]

I think when they say they found keys...all they really mean is that keys were found.

I see what you are saying. But the part that I am fixated on is using the word "first".

He starts by saying what they, LE, found, but cuts himself off, and says, first friends found keys and handed them over the LE. Then LE found keys in the coin purse in the alley.

I understand that it is sentence breaking down that LE probably hadn't intended, but could this not also be seen that the friends first found a key and handed it over to LE. And then LE found the coin purse in the alley which had keys in it?

In which case, then I would be curious to know where the friends found the keys.

All speculation of course.

 

[TonyGatto]

I see what you are saying. But the part that I am fixated on is using the word "first".

He starts by saying what they, LE, found, but cuts himself off, and says, first friends found keys and handed them over the LE. Then LE found keys in the coin purse in the alley.

I understand that it is sentence breaking down that LE probably hadn't intended, but could this not also be seen that the friends first found a key and handed it over to LE. And then LE found the coin purse in the alley which had keys in it?

In which case, then I would be curious to know where the friends found the keys.

All speculation of course.

Wasn't there a set of keys that was found but determined to be unrelated to this case? Where were they found?

 

[MHamby]

Wasn't there a set of keys that was found but determined to be unrelated to this case? Where were they found?

That I had not heard or read anywhere. Which isn't to say that it isn't true.

Oh well. Hopefully we'll find out sooner or later. Gotta hit the sack. Hopefully there will be some developments to read about when I wake up.

 

[cluciano63]

Wasn't there a set of keys that was found but determined to be unrelated to this case? Where were they found?

I believe that was the other purse that was found, belonging to a murder victim, that was deemed to be unrelated, not keys.

 

[GoodAim]

Re Lauren's key/purse:
I believe, from MSM, that AA, when interviewed and photographed, said he saw the keys/purse on his way home just before 3AM and left them there. He gave the impression of a good guy, by the way. He stated that about an hour later his friend or roommate also passed by the keys/purse and put them on a railing. Early that morning (probably a few hours later) a female on her way to work found them and turned them in to police.

What I'd like to know is: Does AA live in the same house as AB, ZO and BB? If so, that is all starting to sound very "intertwined" to me.

I'm also starting to think that LS left JR's earlier, to fit with the 3:38 AM female witness (whose time might have been a bit off --- say, 3:58, for example, which might look similar on an outdoor digital clock. Also, the location might have been slightly different.) Either the man seen with Lauren, speculated to be AB from blogs as well as similar descriptions of his sharply defined facial features, brought/carried Lauren back to JR's in bad shape and something happened there; or the man brought her back to his house, an idea speculated in some blogs, where something might have happened to her. I would really be interested in the alleged (per TG blog) roommate, BB, who has such a long "rap sheet". He sounds pretty scary to me after reading his history. IMHO.

 

[Btown]

Q:
Q: Have you found her keys?
A: We found keys, actually, friends first found keys turned them over to us, we found keys in the small card purse or coin purse in the alley. The same place we last saw her on video.
OK So the keys were found in the alley at the same spot where the video was taken. That's not by the gravel lot.

Actually it is by the gravel lot.
The gravel lot runs alongside 10th - 11th St. alley.
It is also on an alley that intersects the 10th - 11th St. alley.

Was it found at that intersection?
Was it found just north of the cameras?
Was it found on the east side of the alley? The west side? Ect.

His statement is not specific enough to determine the exact spot they found the keys.

Views we as Websleuths have taken of the alley intersections.

 

[British]

With all due respect MrTT, the police seem to be very clear (June 10 presser) that the keys were in the alley where the video was taken. You have been showing photos of the gravel lot and have been saying that the railings in that photo is where the keys were found. What are you basing that on?

I think this is one of the few key elements of the case. The police had mentioned that there was "some activity" in the video, but they did not say what. Her keys are found in that location.

I think her "disappearance" starts at that point. Here are 2 possibilities:

1. The "activity" is cocaine use. LS collapses after that, her keys fall down and whoever was with her (one of the main POIs), carries her on his shoulder to 5 north town homes in Bloomington.

2. There is some sort of sexual attempt (attack?), with LS maybe rejecting (or not rejecting) the advances. During that time her keys fall on the ground. It is also possible that she loses consciousness at that point.


In such a scenario, assuming that LS loses conscience there or she is incoherent and barely alert, the POI carries her to 5 North and then informs other POIs already there that she passed out from drugs (or passes completely out upon her arrival). They are waiting for her to recover, but she does not and around 4 - 4.15 AM they think she may not be alive. They panic, and one POI tries to call someone else who was with them earlier that night for advise, but that person is sleeping and does not answer the call (4. 15 AM call). From then on, at least 2-3 POIs conspire on how to cover-up.

This theory, is also consistent with the account of the witness about the "mystery man" at 3.38 AM.

As you had reported (http://tonygatto.wordpress.com/2011...n-spierer-mystery-encounter-with-unknown-man/)

"According to the witness, who works as a manager at a local bar, Lauren Speirer was incoherent, her eyes nearly closed and at one point she fell and banged her head."

As there is no video activity at 3.38 AM, the witness may well be mistaken about the time and it was simply earlier that night as per the video.

In any case, I think that based on what is publicly known, this is the most likely theory for what might have happened. JMO.

 

[TonyGatto]

Actually it is by the gravel lot.
The gravel lot runs alongside 10th - 11th St. alley.
It is also on an alley that intersects the 10th - 11th St. alley.

Was it found at that intersection?
Was it found just north of the cameras?
Was it found on the east side of the alley? The west side? Ect.

His statement is not specific enough to determine the exact spot they found the keys.

Thanks B. I guess I just don't consider that an "alley" as police say. And this spot by the gravel lot is not where the 2:51 video was taken, right?...I'm under the impression that that was a bit south -- still between 10th and 11th -- and there are no cameras at the gravel lot. Right?

 

[TonyGatto]

<modsnip>

Re Lauren's key/purse:
I believe, from MSM, that AA, when interviewed and photographed, said he saw the keys/purse on his way home just before 3AM and left them there. He gave the impression of a good guy, by the way. He stated that about an hour later his friend or roommate also passed by the keys/purse and put them on a railing. Early that morning (probably a few hours later) a female on her way to work found them and turned them in to police.

What I'd like to know is: Does AA live in the same house as AB, ZO and BB? If so, that is all starting to sound very "intertwined" to me.

I'm also starting to think that LS left JR's earlier, to fit with the 3:38 AM female witness (whose time might have been a bit off --- say, 3:58, for example, which might look similar on an outdoor digital clock. Also, the location might have been slightly different.) Either the man seen with Lauren, speculated to be AB from blogs as well as similar descriptions of his sharply defined facial features, brought/carried Lauren back to JR's in bad shape and something happened there; or the man brought her back to his house, an idea speculated in some blogs, where something might have happened to her. I would really be interested in the alleged (per TG blog) roommate, BB, who has such a long "rap sheet". He sounds pretty scary to me after reading his history. IMHO.

That is not the same BB!!! The kidnapping charge was in 2000 -- when our BB was 12 years old. This kind of speculation without checking makes me leery about posting in the future. Not to attack you Good, but you got to do a little checking before you post stuff like this.

 

[Btown]

Thanks B. I guess I just don't consider that an "alley" as police say. And this spot by the gravel lot is not where the 2:51 video was taken, right?...I'm under the impression that that was a bit south -- still between 10th and 11th -- and there are no cameras at the gravel lot. Right?

Yes, its an alley. It runs between Morton St. and College Ave.
The 10th - 11th St. alley intersects the Morton - College alley at the corner of the building that has the camera where she was seen at 2:51.

There are no cameras at the grave lot.
There are 3 cameras alongside the gravel lot.

The cameras in the center are the 2 that show her at 2:48 - 2:51. The POV is facing the direction she traveled. The farthest camera in center is the one that is at the 10th - 11th St. & Morton - College Ave intersection, (to be specific, a few feet south of the intersection). Thats the one that shows her exiting the alley at 2:51.

Morton to College alley

Camera that shows Lauren at 2:51 in this image of the intersection of the alleys.
There are 2 cameras in the circle. Its the one on the right in the rectangle.

 

[TonyGatto]

Yes, its an alley. It runs between Morton St. and College Ave.
The 10th - 11th St. alley intersects the Morton - College alley at the corner of the building that has the camera where she was seen at 2:51.

There are no cameras at the grave lot.
There are 3 cameras alongside the gravel lot.

LE is saying the keys were found where the video was taken...which is not the gravel lot...as seen in posted picture. Right?

 

[Btown]

LE is saying the keys were found where the video was taken...which is not the gravel lot...as seen in posted picture. Right?

It is not the gravel lot. Nobody said it was IIRC. The gravel lot is just a point of reference.
They said near the handrail by the gravel lot.
Which is every area near the alley's and the handrail.

How near the handrail? Who knows?
Only the person that found it and put it on the handrail, and LE I suppose.

LE have made 2 different statements.
One in the transcript, which is non specific other than to say the alley, and another that Frogzilla linked after the transcript that says on the handrail.

Both descriptions are very close together no matter how they are interpreted.

In the alley where she was video'ed can also mean 5 feet north of the camera, at the intersection of alleys.
Which is the same as near the handrail.
Not specific enough for us to really know.

Google search: [ame="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1366&bih=653&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=lauren+spierer+keys+found&oq=lauren+spierer+key&aq=0&aqi=g3&aql=undefined&gs_sm=c&gs_upl=1028l8366l0l18l17l0l3l3l0l229l2500l0.9.5l14"]Lauren Spierer keys[/ame]

 

[jadejazzkayla]

walker quoted the following post but i don't know who the op is but i would also like a link to LE's statements. thanks, jade.

Wrong again.
If you've followed online or participated in any of the searches or spent any time at the search center then you would know that LE has extremely strong opinions about what happened based on evidence that they have collected.

Got a link?